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Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

EclipseFour20

aka "Doc"
Veteran
Another update: The 2/3 rate of my Original Orthene+Riptide still works. After trying everything "OMRI listed", a local 30+ light "organic" grower used my "chem recipe" to eradicate Root Aphids...and "would do it again" (his words).

What sold him was the minimal effect acephate had on the microherd and its tiny half-life--

"A Hanford loamy sand, a Domino silt loam, and an Altamont clay loam were treated separately with three repeated applications (20 ppm) of the organophosphate insecticides, acephate (O,S-dimethyl acetylphosphoramidothioate) and Monitor (O,S-dimethyl phosphoramidothioate) over a 50-day time span. Population levels of actinomycetes, bacteria, and fungi were not substantially affected by the addition of either pesticide. Neither could a marked effect be shown upon ammonification, nitrification, sulfur oxidation, or respiration rates. Replica plating failed to isolate bacteria from soils that were adversely affected by either pesticide. It is concluded that neither acephate nor Monitor had any adverse effect upon soil microorganisms."

Source: https://www.agronomy.org/publications/jeq/abstracts/3/4/JEQ0030040327?access=0&view=pdf

Acephate has a soil half-life 0.5 to 3 days and is not a systemic...unlike Imid, with a "soil half-life" of 26.5-229 days or a "hydro half-life" of 997 days.

See report....http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/emon/pubs/fatememo/acephate.pdf

Eclipse's Revised Orthene + Riptide routine (very effective for soil mediums--mixed results for hydro mediums):

1 gallon water
2.29 grams Orthene (97.4% Acephate)...1 gram = 1 ml, more or less.
2.5 ml Riptide (5% pyrethrin, 25% PBO)

1. Let the grow medium dry out first, do not use if grow medium is wet/super moist.
2. Dunk for 20-30 minutes (bottom first, let the container sink and then submerge it such that the container lip/grow medium is submerged by 1".
3. Drain, no flushing, no rinsing, no nutes.
4. Let grow medium dry out a bit before first feeding...first feeding brews consisting of minerals, nutrients or bacteria seem to be more beneficial than concoctions of "everything". DO NOT ADD ZYMES TO THE FIRST FEEDING; it seems there is an increase in "plant lock-up" (some plant fatality) if zymes are introduced 10-14 days following many pesticide dunks.
5. Foliar spray with a root growth booster for a few days, 1-2x daily.

My favorite rooting spray (for clones, seedlings, fussy pussies, etc) is:
1 gallon water
7.5 ml Rhizotonic
0.25 grams Urea

Adding Urea to a foliar spray has shown to increase plant's uptake of the spray's active ingredient (it takes between 30 minutes and 2 hours before 50% of Urea's nitrogen is absorbed into the plant's tissue).

Final thoughts--those big 18 gallon party buckets (for ice & beer bottles) make great dunking containers...a few of em can certainly speed up the dunking time for those with a "goodly number" of 5 gallon sized growing containers (and cheap too!) If the grow medium is loaded with other poisons/pesticides from prior attempts, I would flush well and let the grow medium dry out...before attempting my Orthene + Riptide cocktail (think soup, salt...and too many chefs). Drier the grow medium before dunking--the better (zero fatalities), wet grow medium seems to be no bueno! No enzymes for at least 2 weeks...as "plant lock up" seems to be the common result.

Feel free to PM any questions...btw, still Root Aphid FREE! (knocks on wood)

Cheers!
 

roasthawg

Member
Here's my experience... thought I only was dealing with fungus gnats due to seeing the small white larvae in the top layer of my soil. Also easily identified the fliers caught on yellow sticky traps as gnats. Didn't think to pull off a body of the fliers stuck to my buds until later. Only did that after discovering ra in my rootzone. Once I pulled a body off of a bud I identified it as a winged ra using a pocket scope. It seems that the root aphids are attracted the the light and fly into my bare bulbs causing their bodies to pile up on buds growing directly under the lights. So if you have buds full of fliers you probably have ra... easy to confirm with a pocket scope.
 
Eclipse, still RA free? Are you still having to take preventive steps with the combo? I have been battling and am ready to try anything after so many other failed attempts without chems.
 
I have also read others who ended up with significant plant damage after using orthene. As much as I hate to try it, I already have the riptide here unopened and am about to order some orthene. Pellets or the soluble can? I do like the short soil half-life of these compared to IMID but still need to get a jump on these vegging plants. Its either this, OR A TOTAL RESET, which I have been fearing all along
Anyone else had any success lately with this mixture without health issues?

I am curious why this works for some and others are damaging their plants with this?
Maybe there method isn't followed to a T

Properly prepared and flushed/clean medium prior to treatment
Dry medium to start
PH'd dunk
Dry out before more chems
What's the issue?????
Has anyone else tried this with the success that Eclipse has had?
How about failures/ health issues with this method?

This DOES seem like the most logical chemical attack
 
Ok so I chickened out with the acephate/riptide combo. I ended up emptying out the veg room all except for about 5 lone keepers (strains) which had almost no pest activity. I have learned that doesn't mean much of anything however with RA's lurking in other rooms.
My next step was to use some Spectracide Triazacide (Gamma-Cyhalothrin) on these young seemingly healthy clones/ young teens
Using long protective gloves and tried to avoid contact, and a mask to avoid the fumes, I filled a big container with approx 6 gallons of ph'd water. I actually used 1.5 fl oz per gallon, so 9 fl oz. for 6 gallons. This has been a success
Since throwing the entire veg room (with RA'S) into a distant flower room, I wanted a knockdown to battle these guys to the exits, so I hit these ALL going into 12/12 with the same recipe of Spec/Triazacide. THIS KICKS THEIR ASSES!!! I couldn't really care about fungi, microbes or anything crawling about now, even beneficials. I have both OG Biowar packs (among many other things) and have been using them for months with little or no reduction in aphid population and rebound. I also just got some SNS 203 to assist me now in flower once the initial "knockdown" has occurred. I know SNS isn't perfect, but its better than nothing in flower.
 
Another added benefit was cooling my rooms down to around 59 @ night and 65 in the daytime. COOL COOL COOL is the temp to run with ANY issues IMO Cool and as DRY as possible
 

sahdgrower

Member
Not sure why cool and dry would help? Especially since root zone environment is not really related tremendously to your ambient environmental conditions. From what I can tell RA are not really affected too much by temps in mid 60's not as much as my plants are anyway. I figure if my plants are most vigorous they will be best situated to deal with pests. Therefore IMO and I would not preach it as gospel but putting your plants in ideal conditions will assist most for pest problems unless you are doing an acute treatment i.e. heating a room for broad mites (which would only be a limited time exposure for plants) That is my experience from organic vegetable gardening, not specifically pot.
 
Not sure why cool and dry would help? Especially since root zone environment is not really related tremendously to your ambient environmental conditions. From what I can tell RA are not really affected too much by temps in mid 60's not as much as my plants are anyway. I figure if my plants are most vigorous they will be best situated to deal with pests. Therefore IMO and I would not preach it as gospel but putting your plants in ideal conditions will assist most for pest problems unless you are doing an acute treatment i.e. heating a room for broad mites (which would only be a limited time exposure for plants) That is my experience from organic vegetable gardening, not specifically pot.

Root zone environment, here, for me, is directly related to the ambient environment. My water stays cooler, which intern, keeps the root mass cooler, preventing rot, disease, and potentially put those RA's into slower development, travel, and reproduction. Plus my plants seem to do fantastic in these temps. Even in a Co2 environment, which is debated how effective the benefits are in a cooler environment.

Organics? I ran H202 in R/W for years and years before RA's got me with unbelievable results. Then, like an idiot, I traded clones and ended up with the worst plague I never knew existed. After trying many many many organic ideas, recipes, teas, etc,etc,etc. Staring at the pots, floor and walls, wondering if this damn bug is a H miles or a junior RA?! F that!!!!!

They have ALMOST been conquered and once they are out totally , I am going sterile again.
 

vince514

seeker of greater knowledge
Veteran
i read somewhere here on the forums that if u put a slice of potato on top of the soil and the next day if u have fungus nants they would be on the potato slice...im trying it i have thrips but prevention is always helpful
 
Fuckin had it with these things..Finally have seen no movement after two 10-15ml per gal triazicide hits(shit surprisingly works amazing, i soray foliage as well for bm) , then Bayer tree and shrub 2x at 30ml per gal over a 10 day period with ogbiowar tea in between applications.. I have plain imid but the contact killer in Bayer does em in it seems. My plants also like the nutes in the Bayer and are showing surprising root growth despite all the nuking. I'm hoping this works otherwise I'll break out the Kontos and maybe cedarcide or acephate.
This is in Canna coco I find that the smaller pots provide an easier battleground and the increased waterings allow for easier flushing of pesticides.

May get some Met 52..For flower I've deployed bateriaphobia and fetilae todes and my plants are looking damn good however crawlers can be found. May use Botanigard if it doesn't fuck with todes. Have some Carpocapse on the way. Thanks to 40Amps for mentioning it.
 

Granger2

Active member
Veteran
Botanigard, Met 52, and OGBW are compatible with todes. Not so with most chem insecticides. 2 best strains for problem at hand. Good luck. -granger

 
J

johnhinkleyjr

anybody ever experience slight leaf margin burn from the orthene riptide combo. recently dicovered aphids as i went into flower. alternating riptide only treatment at 3-4 mls per gal and then azatrol 1tblspoon per gal with feeding in between in flowering plants. they look fine im now giving roots excel to promote root rebound. scrapped all veg plants cleaned attained bombed veg space and dunked all incoming mother plants with orthene/riptide at 2.75mls and 3 mls per gal respectively. two days later burn appeared could be the a burn from the person who gave them to me over fertilizing just before i took em. they were in 4 inchers in soil. they look like theyll be fine but from what eclipse said it shouldnt damage plants. anyone else whos actually done orthene riptide combo have input?
 

Cameltom

Member
If you have root aphids or have had root aphids, please let us know the following:


A)How bad was your infestation and what effects have you observed in your plants/grow?
B)Have you grown the same way before with success or with the same problems? Have you grown a different way before with success or the same problems?
C)Have you treated them before (if so, how and what were your results/conclusions)
D)What type of medium/nutrients and what type of setup (hand water, ebb/flow etc)

Thanks!
-WB

A. I have had Root aphids. I feel like this is an AA confession. i thought my Infestation was really bad, however i have seen worse in the pics you guys posted. It looked like my Ph was of or i had some sort of Nut deficiency. At first there really isnt may flyers but after about a week or 2 they are alll over the place

B,C and D. This was a few years ago or 7. i grew in a micro perpetual sog getting 1/2 off of soda bottle plants. the root aphids where the end of my soda bottle experiments, thats how i got rid of them i started over and moved out. now i take preventative measures. I give my plants a soil drench once a month-3weeks with a number of different products(it depends what i can get my hands on) right now its AzaMax
 

BlazinPurps

Active member
Just gave up a long battle against root aphids. I tried something similar to Eclipses treatment minus only the Riptide and added Bonide Pyrethrin instead. Two treatments of this followed by a dunk in Merit 75 and a bug bomb waiting 3 days between the first two treatments and 4 more days till the treatment of Merit 75. I had flyers after a week and a half, I should not have skipped out on the Riptide. I was only treating mothers in veg so I just took cuttings and am starting over. This is the second time I have gotten these things and both times were right after picking up a bag of Fox Farm Ocean Forest. Figured a failure still adds to the thread so there is mine.
 
J

johnhinkleyjr

Another update: The 2/3 rate of my Original Orthene+Riptide still works. After trying everything "OMRI listed", a local 30+ light "organic" grower used my "chem recipe" to eradicate Root Aphids...and "would do it again" (his words).

What sold him was the minimal effect acephate had on the microherd and its tiny half-life--

"A Hanford loamy sand, a Domino silt loam, and an Altamont clay loam were treated separately with three repeated applications (20 ppm) of the organophosphate insecticides, acephate (O,S-dimethyl acetylphosphoramidothioate) and Monitor (O,S-dimethyl phosphoramidothioate) over a 50-day time span. Population levels of actinomycetes, bacteria, and fungi were not substantially affected by the addition of either pesticide. Neither could a marked effect be shown upon ammonification, nitrification, sulfur oxidation, or respiration rates. Replica plating failed to isolate bacteria from soils that were adversely affected by either pesticide. It is concluded that neither acephate nor Monitor had any adverse effect upon soil microorganisms."

Source: https://www.agronomy.org/publications/jeq/abstracts/3/4/JEQ0030040327?access=0&view=pdf

Acephate has a soil half-life 0.5 to 3 days and is not a systemic...unlike Imid, with a "soil half-life" of 26.5-229 days or a "hydro half-life" of 997 days.

See report....http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/emon/pubs/fatememo/acephate.pdf

Eclipse's Revised Orthene + Riptide routine (very effective for soil mediums--mixed results for hydro mediums):

1 gallon water
2.29 grams Orthene (97.4% Acephate)...1 gram = 1 ml, more or less.
2.5 ml Riptide (5% pyrethrin, 25% PBO)

1. Let the grow medium dry out first, do not use if grow medium is wet/super moist.
2. Dunk for 20-30 minutes (bottom first, let the container sink and then submerge it such that the container lip/grow medium is submerged by 1".
3. Drain, no flushing, no rinsing, no nutes.
4. Let grow medium dry out a bit before first feeding...first feeding brews consisting of minerals, nutrients or bacteria seem to be more beneficial than concoctions of "everything". DO NOT ADD ZYMES TO THE FIRST FEEDING; it seems there is an increase in "plant lock-up" (some plant fatality) if zymes are introduced 10-14 days following many pesticide dunks.
5. Foliar spray with a root growth booster for a few days, 1-2x daily.

My favorite rooting spray (for clones, seedlings, fussy pussies, etc) is:
1 gallon water
7.5 ml Rhizotonic
0.25 grams Urea

Adding Urea to a foliar spray has shown to increase plant's uptake of the spray's active ingredient (it takes between 30 minutes and 2 hours before 50% of Urea's nitrogen is absorbed into the plant's tissue).

Final thoughts--those big 18 gallon party buckets (for ice & beer bottles) make great dunking containers...a few of em can certainly speed up the dunking time for those with a "goodly number" of 5 gallon sized growing containers (and cheap too!) If the grow medium is loaded with other poisons/pesticides from prior attempts, I would flush well and let the grow medium dry out...before attempting my Orthene + Riptide cocktail (think soup, salt...and too many chefs). Drier the grow medium before dunking--the better (zero fatalities), wet grow medium seems to be no bueno! No enzymes for at least 2 weeks...as "plant lock up" seems to be the common result.

Feel free to PM any questions...btw, still Root Aphid FREE! (knocks on wood)

Cheers!
have you ever noticed any burn in the riptide acephate combo? i got significant leaf margin burn but cant rule out all possible variables as to the cause but it followed the treatment. it was highly compacted soil.
 
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