Brix

[milkyjoe]

Fortuitous Timing

Fortuitous Timing





These little mafas flew in and attacked my plants last night. The plants killed them dead as fuck. I have two rooms that will do this every time. One is a hybrid, mostly organic with CaNO3 as the N fertigated and this one is pure organic.

Both rooms have brix right around 11 and the line is really, really fuzzy on the optical refractometer. Both rooms have sap pH of 6.4 plus or minus a 0.1. The organic room actually has higher EC in the soil.

Coincidence...maybe. I do not have enough data to do any kind of meaningful statistical analysis.

The thing about organic is how do you flush it? It gets fed as long as the microbiology remains alive and minerals remain attached to cec sites or complexed by organic acids. We should look to the tobacco industry...I bet they have some research on how to make stuff burn properly.

Anyways...nothing but anecdotal evidence. But it still makes me every time I see it happen.

edit...sorry about the HPS lighting.

 

[humble_gardener]

Wow, so much information in these few pages.

Really great thread guys! I hope I'm able to contribute, just gotta study up a bit.

 

[Only Ornamental]

The thing about organic is how do you flush it? You don't but utilise just enough compost etc. to be used up in fall. Or you can play with soild pH, irrigation etc.
It gets fed as long as the microbiology remains alive and minerals remain attached to cec sites or complexed by organic acids. We should look to the tobacco industry...I bet they have some research on how to make stuff burn properly. You don't want to do that LoL. They don't flush tobacco but cure it properly and add up to 200 chemicals to make it burn the way it does.

edit...sorry about the HPS lighting. Take pictures at lights out using your cameras flash lights

I had a Cali-O which I can't consume because the buds are full of little bugs, flies etc. Don't know why but that plant attracted all the critters and creepers. First, I thought I'd done something wrong with growing, curing or drying when it burned like burnt hair and next I saw all the little bugs floating on my tea and knew why *blurk*... Can't stand that fuel and rancid oil smell of those buds anyway...

 

[NorCalDreaming]

The thing about organic is how do you flush it? It gets fed as long as the microbiology remains alive and minerals remain attached to cec sites or complexed by organic acids. We should look to the tobacco industry...I bet they have some research on how to make stuff burn properly.

That's a whole other subject and have seen it debated many times. I never had any issues with organics and flushing. The first 'living organic' soil type run I did the plants finished dark green and the guy teaching me said not to worry and he was right. Came out sweet and smooth even before any substantial cure. Some will say it has to do with Mg and trace mineral additions late in flower that causes the 'hot burn' problem. I think some of the whole thing, regarding not flushing organics, may have to do with a plant that's going into senescence. If you're relying on the symbiotic relationship between the plant and soil microbes then it'll ask for what it wants/needs and you don't have to think too much about it.

Milkyjoe I was taught that when you see the leaf serrations/teeth pointing up like you have in the first pic it indicates good manganese levels/absorption and your media pH is very slightly acid which is good. Also supposed to indicate very good plant health in general. I've always wondered though if it also has to do with genetic predisposition.

I vaguely remember when your brix gets up around 12 your pest issues should disappear. That's probably only part of it though as it has to do with complete carbohydrate and protein formation from what I've learned.

 

[shaggyballs]

-

 

[milkyjoe]

Those bugs are dead. They obviously came in through the door (I found them on the plant nearest the door) took one bite and fucking died on the spot.

My opinion is that adding a homer bucket full of basalt and 20 lbs of kelp meal to a yard of soil is what did this. I am looking forward to adding sea salt to that arsenal.

I will do my absolute best to maintain that brix level the entire grow. here is some wax blown through a tube, and then left outside in freezing weather all night (we got high and forgot about it).



The trichs did not turn amber at all at 10.5 weeks. My interpretation is that the plant stayed healthy enough that they did not oxidize (micronutrient nutrition). I am more than happy to properly cure my weed to remove any bad taste. Please do zoom in on that pic and exam it as close as you want.

University research or not...I be happy exactly where I am

 

[NorCalDreaming]

when your brix gets up around 12 your pest issues should disappear.
Remember nitrogen levels are important.
Regardless of high brix I think high nitrogen levels have an effect on pest issues as I stated here.

As I have stated before it is not just about brix and brix is not just about sugar. In general people I've run across regularly using brix use it as part of the equation and are more accomplished growers. They're typically pretty knowledgeable regarding soil science/biology, plant physiology, plant nutrients, etc. and are using it in conjunction with other metrics. Milkyjoe mentioned his nice fuzzy optical brix reading and that's part of what I've learned is important.

Interesting take on the trichome think Milkyjoe.

 

[milkyjoe]

What i hear, with no proof backing it up, is that the fuzzier the reading the longer the carbon chains, the longer the carbon chains the better. I believe it based on nothing more than anecdotal evidence. Every time I achieve it I am happy, every time I don't something has been wrong.

 

[shaggyballs]

-

 

[milkyjoe]

Nitrate destroys brix levels period. It brings water into the leaf, stem, bud...whatever. But if that nitrate converts to peptides or protein...no issue at all with brix.

You can see it with a nitrate sap meter. If you have high nitrates you have low brix. But you can have all kinds of protein and no problem with brix. You can have low brix/high nitrates...foliar feed Mgsulfate and the brix will go up, nitrate will go down. You can do the experiments yourself, all you have to have is the meters.

A couple of countries...Austria being one I believe will not let you sell high nitrate food. I think this is part of the reason why, that and what nitrate does to people.

edit...so it ain't nitrogen levels that is the issue...it is nitrate.

 

[shaggyballs]

-

 

[Only Ornamental]

- And nitrogen (N2) is a gas and makes up ~80% of our atmosphere .
- Nitrogen becomes available to plants in the form of ammonia NH4+ via degradation of organic matter or via nitrogen fixating soil bacteria who turn N2 into ammonia. Most of the ammonia in the soil is oxidised to nitrate NO3- by another type of bacteria and hence, the principal form of resorbed nitrogen is nitrate. A small part comes from animal urin/faeces in the form of urea and urate. Within the plant, nitrate is transported to the stems and leaves and reduced where needed back to ammonia. Finally, the ammonia is then incorporated into amino acids.
- High nitrate and low °Bx make sense to me: A healthy plant on a perfectly fertilised soil converts most of the nitrate very quickly and can use the ammonia to build proteins (for storage or growth). Too high nitrate means either over-fertilisation (which is bad) or the plant is no longer in perfect shape, can't grow enough anymore or has not enough energy (light) to produce the carbohydrates needed to build amino acids as nitrogen acceptors and subsequently, nitrate levels rise (nitrate can more easily be kept solubilised in the sap than ammonia).

 

[redclover]

I guess I'm just a BRIX BUM. Not grasping the science here. I even seen a 'brix blend' of rock dust. No offense...or troll attempt, but doesn't it boil down to a well balanced properly amended living soil? Your plant having everything it needs while being surrounded with 'a living team'. What about a companion plant too. Will this affect your levels?

 

[Only Ornamental]

A plant doesn't need a living soil to have high Brix (but maybe to be happy?), the proper balance of nutrients suffices...
Companion plants: Don't know with cannabis. Many plants do react to conspecific and other plants in very different ways. Some may boost, others inhibit, deter or attract pest etc... Organic farmers now that very well and use it to their advantage .

 

[milkyjoe]

Check out the work of nova crop control with hydroponics...you don't need living soil.

 

[DCG Farmas]

Thanks for posting this thread! I'm using Doc Bud's HiBrix line with FANTASTIC results. My healthiest grow yet. Not many people understand it but this thread helps clear things up.

 

[Avinash.miles]

great thread, thanks to shaggyballs, milkyjoe, only ornamental. imo this thread should be a sticky perhaps;

just wanted to add my 2 cents, PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong about anything;

brix is related to plant health but does not give the full picture
how do we get that full picture? plant sap ph meters look to be very similar to regular ph meters for hydro, so is it as simple as testing the pH of the juice from the leaves (the same juice you would use in the brix tester)?
what other equipment is accessible on the market that will help get the "full picture" of plant health? (where bix is only a single element of that picture)

also, brix & plant health are not directly related to any one WAY or method of growing. It's a state of health achievable by many different paths, more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak.

it seems there has been a confusion created by a "high brix soil" movement, similar to "super soil", ROLS, TLO... looks like "branding" to me. this has created confusion by making people think that using a soil mix like that is the ONLY way to achieve this state of plant health called "high brix". i don't believe that is the case,
that being said I have converted my entire grow to use organic amended soils, all high quality inputs (locally collected microorganisms & minerals like sand from my region), making my own fermented plant extract fertilizers and foliar sprays (calphos is amazing, imo).

once again, great thread, I know it's a year old, but a very interesting read nonetheless.

 

[Bongstar420]

Nice thread shaggyballs .

Though with cannabis, there are a few things to consider, because cannabis is more often smoked than eaten.

Plants (in general) accumulate basically amino acids in fall, whereas they store mainly carbohydrates in summer. That means, weak autumn lighting and low temperatures in addition to flushing decrease the amount of sugar considerably.
Also, the preferred harvest before sunrise and eventual storage for two days in the dark prior to chopping lowers sugar content of aerial parts. The curing process lowers it even more.
Obviously, sugar isn't appreciated in a joint (well, amino acids and proteins even less, but that's beside the point) and hence, a low °Bx at harvest should logically be favoured.

A real dank grow will have high brix...early in flower and late in veg

 

[Only Ornamental]

A real dank grow will have high brix...early in flower and late in veg

I do agree to the point that high brix correlates with healthy and thriving plants which is most advantageous in the vegetative and early flower stages but regarding "dank" not so much.
According to good British English, you wouldn't want to smoke weed from a dank grow .

 

[milkyjoe]

I would go further...want to jack your brix up so you got the biggest brix on the internet. Feed NaCl...the highsalt index jacks up the brix but sure as fuck ddon't make anything dank. Brix is not sugar content. It is dissolved solids. Jack your K up...it will antagonize Ca and Mg and reduce the health of your plant...but you can wag your brix reading.

In the petiole or leaf...imo...too high of brix is just as bad as too low. 12 is goldilocks