Minions of the Dark

[Pepe le skunk]

So from that link this is a simple compost tea.

Simple compost tea
worm compost castings Qty( ?)
molasses (1 tsp) ?
kelp meal (1 TBSP) ?
baby oatmeal (oat flour) (1 TBSP) ?
fish hydrolysate (What is this exactly) ? How much?
alfalfa meal (Any specific brand anyone use?)
soft rock phosphate (is magneisum salfate the same) How much?
pyrophyllite (Name brand? ) How much?
water (1 gallon)
wheat bran (grocrey store brand)
sphagnum peatmoss (How much?)

Mesh bag.

Combine the dry ingredients in a mesh bag and add to a bucket of water with an air pump for 36 hrs. Add 2 cups to the (10 gallons) of feed water and apply.

If I were to brew 1 gallon in a rubber trashcan any idea on the amounts to use of each? Maybe a recipe someone has?
Thanks.

 

[Seaf0ur]

no.... that is not a simple tea... a simple tea would be 2.35% EWC or vermicast and .05% molasses.... in a free suspension... you will also need a dissolved oxygen level or DO2 at 6 PPM or HIGHER.... small aquarium pumps will not provide the required oxygen... breeding anaerobes instead of aerobes and making something more akin to a lechate tea which requires greater levels of dilution.....

MicrobeMan @ Microbeorganics

By testing some ingredients independently in a liquid I observed;

1/ that humic acid in varying dilutions does not feed any sort of microscopically visible microbe. I observed that it actually suppresses microbial division and growth. This was confirmed by joint testing with Keep It Simple Inc. (KIS) in the Seattle area. We tested two of the most effective and popular brands. I cannot say definitively that all brands of humic acid will have similar suppressive effects in a liquid (ACT) but it is enough for me to discontinue using it or recommending it as an ACT foodstock. Please note that this does not mean that it is not good to use on/in soil….just not ACT.

2/ that kelp meal initially delays all microbial development in a liquid but does feed fungi and bacteria/archaea following 24 hours. If too much is used the effects are suppressive. From this I garnered that it should be used very sparingly and one must be prepared to brew a little longer if using this foodstock. Again, this does not mean that kelp meal is not a good thing to use in/on soil. It definitely is!

3/ black strap molasses (BSM) feeds both bacteria/archaea and fungi equally well contrary to what the A(A)CT aficionados were saying. The story was that BSM feeds only bacteria. This led to all sorts of misconceptions, even including ones made by USDA and Canada Agriculture scientists who declared that using molasses in ACT could lead to e-coli contamination. It is utter nonsense. Besides the testing I have done and ratifying assays carried out by KIS, it is common knowledge amongst many mycologists like Paul Stamets that BSM grows out fungal hyphae just fine.

4/ fish hydrolysate feeds both fungi and bacteria/archaea again contrary to the story at the time that it is mainly a fungal food. (I’m glad to see that story has now changed)

5/ alfalfa meal is also a decent all round foodstock which sometimes introduces protozoa cysts to the ACT. KIS has done more testing on this than I have.


The result of all this is that my attitude towards recipes for ACT has really evolved over the years with a trend towards the more simple. I know that there are a lot of people who place importance on creating a bacterial or fungal dominant ACT. At one time I myself was so influenced, however, the more I’ve learned and unlearned about living soil and a functioning microbial population interacting with plants, the more I’ve been led to allow the soil and plants to decide which microbes are actively needed by the rhizosphere team. What this means is that 9 times out of 10 I’m trying to create a balanced ACT with a decent ratio of the three basic microbial groups. When this hits the soil, some will go dormant to wake up later and some will be immediately put into action at the direction of the needs of the soil and plants.

The exceptions to this may be if I am attempting to battle a particular pathogen and want to attack it with a heavy fungal or bacterial (or a combo) ACT. In these situations some tweaking of recipes and timing can be helpful. If attempting these variations, a microscope is really the only way to confirm the desired microbial population. I have outlined some recipes which may trend towards a certain microbial group (or combo) or may assist with certain pathogens.

Recipes;

Through a plethora of trial and error brewing with a dissolved oxygen meter at hand we determined that a pretty reliable volume of [vermi]compost to use is 2.38% by volume of water used up to around a 250 gallon brewer.

So if you have 5 gallons you multiply that by 2.38% to get the amount of [vermi]compost to use. Then you can go to; http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm and convert it into any unit of measure which is convenient. In my opinion measuring [vermi]compost by weight is inaccurate because of varying moisture content.

Anyway to proceed we have;

5 x 2.38% = 0.119 of a gallon = 0.476 of a quart = 0.450 of a liter
= 450.5 milliliters [450 rounded] = 1.904 cups [2 cups rounded] - Your choice

Likewise with the use of black strap molasses, a percentage of 0.50% is a good median amount to use.

These two ingredients, perhaps surprisingly, comprise the total of inputs in most of our brews these days. This simple recipe, if using an efficient ACT maker and good quality [vermi]compost results in a microbial population made up of the important three groups. This is the only recipe used to date, in all the videos on my Youtube channel ‘Microbe Organics’

We did almost a year straight of research (at a cost of thousands of dollars) building almost every conceivable compost tea brewer design and size, ranging from 1 to 1200 gallons. These included every type itemized on my webpage in the design section and more. We measured the dissolved oxygen (DO2) religiously at all hours of day and night, eliminating configurations which failed to maintain the DO2 at or above 6 PPM. This is close to the minimum level required to support aerobic organisms.

The outcome of this research was, the estimation, that the minimum flow required from an air pump to make compost tea while maintaining the DO2 at 6 PPM, is 0.05 CFM per gallon while the optimum flow is 0.08 CFM per gallon or greater. (the only exception was when utilizing airlifts)

This means that most aquarium pumps will not work with a 5 gallon ACT maker, no matter what a couple of guys from Texas say. Two gallons, perhaps.

 

[Pepe le skunk]

Never understood why these %'s cannot be simplified to 1 tablespoon to 1 gallon for ingredients or 1 cup finished tea to 5 gallons of water.
Seems to complicated for me. I understand why the article has it listed that way so he can sell his product. But for the average village idiot like me it's confusing.

 

[SG1]

So from that link this is a simple compost tea.

Simple compost tea
worm compost castings Qty( ?)
molasses (1 tsp) ?
kelp meal (1 TBSP) ?
baby oatmeal (oat flour) (1 TBSP) ?
fish hydrolysate (What is this exactly) ? How much?
alfalfa meal (Any specific brand anyone use?)
soft rock phosphate (is magneisum salfate the same) How much?
pyrophyllite (Name brand? ) How much?
water (1 gallon)
wheat bran (grocrey store brand)
sphagnum peatmoss (How much?)

Mesh bag.

Combine the dry ingredients in a mesh bag and add to a bucket of water with an air pump for 36 hrs. Add 2 cups to the (10 gallons) of feed water and apply.

If I were to brew 1 gallon in a rubber trashcan any idea on the amounts to use of each? Maybe a recipe someone has?
Thanks.

This is not a simple tea.
And if something was outta wack, which ingredient FUBAR'd the batch.

The more complex, the more room for error.
KIS = keep it simple.

Use a 5 gal bucket for your teas, and use the same size cup to measure ingredients, consistency is key, and track results, make increases in ingredients slowly.

Purchase a good air pump and stone/diffuser.

I use the following for a 5 gal tea.
Well, rain, or tap water set out min 24 hrs.

1-2 cups worm castings (dependent on quality)
Half cup of kelpmeal
2-3 tablespoons molasses or agave necter

Brew for 24-36 hrs.
Keep temps at about 75f.
I brew for 24 hrs myself.

I don't filter out my tea.
I just throw everything in to brew, let the air mix it up, then mix it with my water jug, and water plants with it.
May as well recycle everything into your soil.
A lot less mess.

I use the fish farts(liquid ferts)
But add it fresh to my water bucket.
Stinks up teas, YUK!
I use 2 cups in a 5 gal.

Most the other stuff are best suited as amendments.

 

[3Deez]

First time I used fish hydrolysate in my tea, I thought that it had gone anaerobic because it stank so bad, haha. I never really need more than a few gallons at a time so I use a bigger aquarium pump for roughly two gallons water. I use vermicompost from my bin and 1tbsp molasses. Pretty simple. Sometimes I add a little kelp in at the end but I usually just make a kelp paste that I keep in the fridge and add a tsp per gallon every so often. Works for me.

Here are my nocs at day 47:
Last pic is one of the bud sites that I pollenated and its starting to show some seeds.

 

[SG1]

Nice pics Deez.

Small breedings are very enjoyable.
Mama looks real nice.

 

[3Deez]

Nice pics Deez.

Small breedings are very enjoyable.
Mama looks real nice.

Thanks! I got a few more clones coming around to keep my run going...meanwhile I gotta soak some more beans so I can set myself up to experience some more of the strains.

 

[Seaf0ur]

Never understood why these %'s cannot be simplified to 1 tablespoon to 1 gallon for ingredients or 1 cup finished tea to 5 gallons of water.
Seems to complicated for me. I understand why the article has it listed that way so he can sell his product. But for the average village idiot like me it's confusing.

2.35% of 1 US gallon = 0.376 US cups
0.05% of 1 US gallon = 0.384 US teaspoons

2.35% of 5 US gallons = 1.88 US cups
0.05% of 5 US gallons = 1.92 US teaspoons

ballpark guesses are fine though..... thats how I roll.... I just did the math for y'all..... I eyeball everything.

 

[Buzzed]

Wuz up peebles. I took a couple of pics for seafour of my lil first scroc attempt. Naturally i did it ass backwards, but seems how i learn most everything. Got my rav in a bigger pot and a couple gq's in bigger pots. I have been using those airpots to veg in and i believe i like em. The root system is very well structured untangled and solid mass.



GSC pic

 

[Gold Hill Ganja]

Soo0, I have a big pile of used soil outside with leaves wintering over. Was thinking of trying to compost it or fortify it with some of the worms SG1 mentioned recently. (Red wigglers are the compost masters.) Could throw in some banana peels and egg shells and was thinking of adding lime. Could throw in some great white and molasses too. What else do you or what do you do to the organic soil you recycle?
Anyone else feel free to contrubite.

Roots as in Roots organic has gnats issues in their soil?

Ok so ya want to do some re amending. Sounds like you got a good base soil to work with. the stuff you add really depends on how your growing. Are you going to be using this soil for indoor plants? Or outdoor? If your doing a short indoor run you might want to use a blood meal or bat guano that work fast in a week or 3 instead of say cottonseed meal that takes upto 6weeks to release. Are going to re use this soil over and over? there are different amendments that are released for a long time and get better and more availible w years down the road. Like for instance greensands takes a year before its fully avalible and is good for years.

Not trying to freak you out, this is pretty easy really, go to a big nursery that sells lots of organic amendments and spend and afternoon reading the back of the boxes. You'll be amazed what you can pick up.

I would recommend to you since your a beginner is to get a few basics that have always done me right and that I always have some on hand: EWC (earth worm castings aka vermicompost), kelp meal, alfalfa meal and comprehensive all in one organic fert. The all in one will be a mix of various meals, you want to find one that is made from lots of different sources diversity is key.

From here it's pretty simple. Throw some at it based on what the label says and see what happens. Good luck to ya.

 

[Buzzed]

Thats some good stuff to think on GH. Thx

Ravnus


GQ on left Rav on right

 

[Pepe le skunk]

I use the following for a 5 gal tea.
Well, rain, or tap water set out min 24 hrs.

1-2 cups worm castings (dependent on quality)
Half cup of kelpmeal
2-3 tablespoons molasses or agave necter

Brew for 24-36 hrs.
Keep temps at about 75f.
I brew for 24 hrs myself.

I don't filter out my tea.
I just throw everything in to brew, let the air mix it up, then mix it with my water jug, and water plants with it.
May as well recycle everything into your soil.
A lot less mess.

I use the fish farts(liquid ferts)
But add it fresh to my water bucket.
I use 2 cups in a 5 gal.

Most the other stuff are best suited as amendments.

Great tea recipe. That's what I'm talking about. Thank you

I use vermicompost from my bin and 1tbsp molasses. Pretty simple. Sometimes I add a little kelp in at the end but I usually just make a kelp paste that I keep in the fridge and add a tsp per gallon every so often.

Another great recipe. Maybe this is a simple tea and SG1's is to grow more of the fungus because of the fish addition. Believe that article mentioned something about that.

2.35% of 1 US gallon = 0.376 US cups
0.05% of 1 US gallon = 0.384 US teaspoons

2.35% of 5 US gallons = 1.88 US cups
0.05% of 5 US gallons = 1.92 US teaspoons

ballpark guesses are fine though..... thats how I roll.... I just did the math for y'all..... I eyeball everything.

All this breakdown will make a great reference for tea's.
Thank's for doing the math and the breakdown for tea brew container size. Extremely helpful.

 

[Pepe le skunk]

Ok so ya want to do some re amending.
going to be using this soil for indoor plants?

If your doing a short indoor run you might want to use a blood meal or bat guano that work fast in a week or 3 instead of say cottonseed meal that takes up to 6 weeks to release.

there are different amendments that are released for a long time and get better and more availible w years down the road. greensands takes a year before its fully avalible and is good for years.

a few basics:
EWC (earth worm castings aka vermicompost), kelp meal, alfalfa meal and comprehensive all in one organic fert. The all in one will be a mix of various meals, you want to find one that is made from lots of different sources diversity is key.

Again excellent information. Want to take about 30 gallons of this soil and re-amend it and cook it like I was doing with subs super soil.

Basiclly a hot soil the roots can dip into and grab minerals/ vitamins and some extra food. Will still be using the coco and light warrior airy mix so the soil will not compact and the roots can get tons of oxygen. Changing to air pots for even more air saturation at the root level. Figure the tea's and light liquid ferts occasionally will provide everything the plant could want.

The only thing that worries me is introducing bugs from outside.
That's why I asked if it should be cooked in an oven before the 30-45 day tea and bacteria cook process in the 30 gallon trash can...

The extra ingredients is really helpful to add to the soil when I mix it before it hits the 30 gallon can for a month and a half.

Thanks again for all the great suggestions. Most helpful concerning advanced organics gardening.

 

[PakaloloFromPNW]

Again excellent information. Want to take about 30 gallons of this soil and re-amend it and cook it like I was doing with subs super soil.

Basiclly a hot soil the roots can dip into and grab minerals/ vitamins and some extra food. Will still be using the coco and light warrior airy mix so the soil will not compact and the roots can get tons of oxygen. Changing to air pots for even more air saturation at the root level. Figure the tea's and light liquid ferts occasionally will provide everything the plant could want.

The only thing that worries me is introducing bugs from outside.
That's why I asked if it should be cooked in an oven before the 30-45 day tea and bacteria cook process in the 30 gallon trash can...

The extra ingredients is really helpful to add to the soil when I mix it before it hits the 30 gallon can for a month and a half.

Thanks again for all the great suggestions. Most helpful concerning advanced organics gardening.

There are a whole lot of bugs that are necessary for organic growing. They're as small as protozoa and nematodes and get bigger when you're including the arthropods. So if you're not sure about outside bugs then you might not want to go this route. A blade who was switching to organics literally freaked out when he discovered soil mites (these are good bugs) running around his room.

 

[yortbogey]

 

[HillBilly1]

View Image

I am a cross of Bobby and Juice

 

[Seaf0ur]

There are a whole lot of bugs that are necessary for organic growing. They're as small as protozoa and nematodes and get bigger when you're including the arthropods. So if you're not sure about outside bugs then you might not want to go this route. A blade who was switching to organics literally freaked out when he discovered soil mites (these are good bugs) running around his room.

which was pretty hilarious....

"you guys didn't tell me there were gonna be bugs"

 

[Gold Hill Ganja]

Again excellent information. Want to take about 30 gallons of this soil and re-amend it and cook it like I was doing with subs super soil.

Basiclly a hot soil the roots can dip into and grab minerals/ vitamins and some extra food. Will still be using the coco and light warrior airy mix so the soil will not compact and the roots can get tons of oxygen. Changing to air pots for even more air saturation at the root level. Figure the tea's and light liquid ferts occasionally will provide everything the plant could want.

The only thing that worries me is introducing bugs from outside.
That's why I asked if it should be cooked in an oven before the 30-45 day tea and bacteria cook process in the 30 gallon trash can...

The extra ingredients is really helpful to add to the soil when I mix it before it hits the 30 gallon can for a month and a half.

Thanks again for all the great suggestions. Most helpful concerning advanced organics gardening.

Don't put your soil in an oven. That's just crazy talk. In organics, and supersoil, you are trying to build a living soil. The micro biology in the soil is what breaks down amendments and compost into useable plant food. These microbes then from a symbiotic relationship with your plants roots increasing the roots ability to uptake food and oxygen. These microbes even balance the Ph levels so you don't have too. So if you stick the soil in the oven you will kill or greatly harm your micro population which was what you have been trying to build by "cooking" it in the first place. Your not making extra food, you making the food you put into the soil useable. The act of cooking it in a trash can or under a dark colored tarp heats up and kills most bugs anyways but I deal with bugs once I notice them and I have not had a problem with my soils having bugs.

For 30 gallons of soil re-amending, based on your base soil, I would mix 1 cup kelp meal, 1 cups All in one fert such as a "Dr. Earth", 2 cups alfalfa meal and a whole 30-40 lb bag of worm castings and a 1cu ft bag of composed chicken manure. Then rake up the leaves in your yard and add a layer of leaves to it. The leaves from the yard introduce a lot of local microbes into your soil thus making them more used too your particular region and its native soil. You always want some compostable materials in various stages of decay in your soil. Mix thoroughly and let cook turning soil over once a week for min 3week, 6 weeks is optimum. You can add a couple compost teas during the cook time to speed up the cook time and increase the micro herd. But they aren't necessary.

Remember in organics you don't feed plants, you feed the soil. Your soil does the rest.

 

[SoooHaggard]

which was pretty hilarious....

"you guys didn't tell me there were gonna be bugs"

View Image

That's the reason I am taking a break from GC lol

 

[Buzzed]

Tough crowd