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DabLab Reloaded-- back to vertville
- Thread starter DabOnDabs
- Start date
This topic of leaving the micro in until later or even till the flush is interesting. Although I'm very satisfied with my current feed schedule, I must say that it does make sense.
GH designed the system to work hand and hand thru to the end of flowering, but I assume h3ad and rez's ideals are to use the least amount of nutrients possible while still achieving quality. 6/9 is definitely a cost effective way to grow some dank.
You know their results are also based in coco, might have something to do with cutting it earlier than GH suggests
At some point in time the plant requires little to no N. This point might arrive at different times for different strains.
Are you using bloom booster?
I use the KB powder and it does contain ammoniacal nitrate which accounts for 2% N. Maybe the 3 doses I blast them with is enough to get her thru with what they need?
If added calcium your wanting I would not rely on tap water content as a source.
I would just pick up some GH CALiMAGic. It's clean and uses minerals for optimal plant uptake. I only use 1/4-1/2 tsp per gal increments. The ppms at that ratio, only add 130-170 ppms.
Most people claim that 6/9 doesn't need cal mag, but I believe otherwise. My garden has seen nothing but benefits from adding it. Even with me using dechlorinated/tap.
First of all, thanks for posting and thanks for your input.
For the sake of arguement im going to disagree with you on the cal/mg. While i certainly agree that both elements are crucial to a sucessful harvest, I also believe that the way calcium is added to nute systems is also what makes them unsucessful. In Cal/Mg the Ca is delivered as a calcium nitrate, which I'm sure you know also adds N. I'm trying to get away from the n, which is why im hesitant to add it. I have run gh nutes before, and had great success (after i dropped the cal/mg.) Anyways, Im gonna try it as is, and try to get my K:Ca:Mg ratio as close to 3:2;1 as I can with the addition of tap water and see how that goes.
Yea, you didnt miss much, but I'm glad you made it
lets see if we cant take er home. The back trellis was something that I decided to try for convinience sake, and that only. Its a fucking bitch trying to work in a vert room when your neck is 6'' from a 500+*f light. FUck that. I have scars all over me from my last grows, and my old roomates certainly werent impressed. Anyways, it is so fucking nice to be able to walk all the way around my girls without getting burnt.
However, with the limited space (kinda, haha its not like im growin in a cab), it seems like im wasting 2+ ft of grow room on each side of the "loop".
Think i may do 4 plants per light, w/ 4 x 4' squares as trellis, and to allow for the light to spread to the plants 360* instead of the way im doing it now.
Time will tell, but as far as convinience, this shit is fool proof.
When you calculate your canopy per sf, that 2' walkway is worth it. I set up 4 rooms at the site I am in the process of shutting down. I boxed myself in on the first one, but by the time I got the the 4th one, I had a walkway around my stacks. Getting Vert to perform is reliant on being able to arrange tops to fill in the canopy.Yea, you didnt miss much, but I'm glad you made it
The back trellis was something that I decided to try for convinience sake, and that only. Its a fucking bitch trying to work in a vert room when your neck is 6'' from a 500+*f light. FUck that. I have scars all over me from my last grows, and my old roomates certainly werent impressed. Anyways, it is so fucking nice to be able to walk all the way around my girls without getting burnt.
However, with the limited space (kinda, haha its not like im growin in a cab), it seems like im wasting 2+ ft of grow room on each side of the "loop".
Think i may do 4 plants per light, w/ 4 x 4' squares as trellis, and to allow for the light to spread to the plants 360* instead of the way im doing it now.
Time will tell, but as far as convinience, this shit is fool proof.
I am kinda scratching my head on your departure from Jack's. I switched from GH, to top shelf, to salts. I don't see myself going back to bottled ferts. In fact, I will be sending in a sample to their lab to have a custom mix based on my source water.
You say equal parts on your Jack's recipe, but was it equal weight, or volume. I say this because, I was using equal weight at first. For example; for a 44 gal tank, it would be 120 grams of Hydro, and 100 grams of Cal Nitrate. Both weights were determined by measuring by volume, but I prefer to weigh my salts in cups, hence the conversion.
The results from the above were some of the best I have achieved. There is a school of thought, that as long as your ratios are in check, the plant will take what it needs. Confuse it with varying ratios, and who knows. In one room, I had a bunch of first timers. One was my now keeper WiFi Alien cut. Over 9 ounces from one under vegged plant, that tested over 25% at the lab. Same recipe, from veg to chop, with absolutely no boosters, cal/mag, or epsom salts.
Nailing my nutrient regime has freed me up to focus on other, more important tasks. Just sharing my experiences in the hopes that you don't go down any unnecessary rabbit holes...
Yea, I calculated it out, and the canopy I have would be equivalent to running 16 lights in horizontal...
Anyways, here you come, 2 days late to shit on my hopes and dreams.
Mister D suggested I try jacks@ 2g jacks/ 2g calcnit. When I put 2g of Jacks into a gallon of R.O, it hit 450ppm. When I put 2g of Calcnit in a gallon of R.O, it also hit 450ppm.
So, 2g of each is ~ 450 ppm. My target was 600 ppm, so rather than add 2g of each, I just added 300ppm of each and measured w/ my meter rather than a scale.
There is not doubt that my plants are healthy..Healthy as fuck actually. I've never had plants that look this uniform and healthy throughout...HOWEVER, I'm at day 33, and my buds look like day 28. On that note, the amount of small leafs in my bud is double or triple what its been in the past...This just screams too much N to me...
SO, I decided to get away from the N, but w/ the Jacks, it was kinda hard to do away w/ it, while at the same time retaining the calcium. Thats why I went back to the GH. I need more P, less N. Jacks has a ton of K, and very little P.
Idk, Im still a noob, i honestly dont know what the fuck I'm doing....I just feel like my buds are way behind for how "healthy" my plants are. Yea they may be healthy....and leafy as fuck. Im not tryin to grow leaves.
I was actually trying to argue w/ Papaduc about you're statement "the school of thought that if your ratios are in check"...
Thats the way I've always done it... same ratio straight through veg and flower, and I've had pretty good results...BUT, im not hitting 2+/light, so my "pretty good," is just my observation, and comparatively is not good at all.
Thats the way I've always done it... same ratio straight through veg and flower, and I've had pretty good results...BUT, im not hitting 2+/light, so my "pretty good," is just my observation, and comparatively is not good at all.
the 1 gram of each is a problem. It states on the packaging, that it is to be mixed in equal volumes, not weight. the 120/100 Hydro/Cal Nit will illustrate the difference in weight vs volume. By volume, they are equal, but not by weight. My last run sealed the deal for me. The only tweak left to do in my opinion is a slight boost after stretch. In my opinion, environment > feeding regime. Keep it simple, and get everything else in line.
As far as not appearing to be as far along as last time, there are a couple of possible culprits.
If the plants have excessive bud sites, due to over vegging, you could be a week long. Or if you fucked with them too much during stretch, or any other stress, you may as well add a possible 10 days.
Just speaking out loud, trying to be helpful...
Equal volumes, from veg to flower, my best has been 1.2 gpw, followed by 1.1 gpw. These runs were in my one room where temps are within 10 degrees from lights on/off, and RH below 50% after stretch. Comparatively, my other rooms with less climate controls were on average, about half that. Which lead me to the understanding that climate > over priced bottled ferts...
Lol, it was not even a decision to contemplate. I am shutting down my last vert flower room in the next two weeks, but just loaded my first horizontal room at the new site. I promised to do one run as is before I "revert"...
By all means, speak out loud man. I dont post this here for any other reason than to get input and see what other people are doing. I dont have access to friends/etc who grow lots of good bud. My friends are idiots. Gotta aquire the knowledge and the experience on my own... So thank you...
Not sure I quite understand what you mean about the jacks...Volume vs. Weight.
300ppm of each....is...equal.. No?
If 2g of each is 900, and diluting this to 600ppm is ideally what I want, then what is different in adding 300ppm of each?
Not sure I quite understand what you mean about the jacks...Volume vs. Weight.
300ppm of each....is...equal.. No?
If 2g of each is 900, and diluting this to 600ppm is ideally what I want, then what is different in adding 300ppm of each?
You are not supposed to add equal ppms. There are a couple good threads out there dealing with Jack's. Another method people use with jacks, is to make a concentrated solution, and add until you get the target EC. Iirc, you want 1.0 EC with the Hydro, and 0.6 EC with the Calcium Nitrate.
When I started, I used 3 g Hydro, 2 g Cal Nite, and 0.5-1.0 g of Epsom Salts. When I measured by volume, (3/8 tsp per gallon I think), the weights were way off from before.
As an example: using 3-2-1 for a 44 gal tank would be 132 g of Hydro, and 88 g of Cal Nite. When I measured by volume, I ended up with 120 g of Hydro, and 100 g of Cal Nite.
Hope that makes sense.
Try to find Yosemite Sam on this forum, and read through his stuff on Jack's. Should be clear after that, but let me know if you still have questions.
I do make a concentrated solution...I really dont even measure it, I just put a couple cups full of jacks or Calcnit in a gallon of warm R.O. and let it dissolve. Then, I'll add to my res until I arrive at my target E.C.
I started using D9's recipe, so I would add My jacks concentrated solution to R.O., until I got to 360ppm, and then add Calcnit until I got to 600.
Just to clarify, I don't think a good broad general formula is a bad thing, at all.
This
Doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with this
Getting your ratios in check and getting a good ratio which will do both bloom and flower are not the same thing. That's very important to know. I'm not so sure about the fascination with having a one size fits all feed for both stages of the cycle. There's nothing wrong with a one size fits veg and one which fits flowering.
Like I said before, don't worry yourself trying to get every single element in perfect balance. Concentrate more on the general ratio you should be hitting for veg, then for flower. Once you're in that range you will be fine by and large and any tweaks you make will be small ones, if you even make them at all.
Like I say, even a bottle of 4-4-8 tomato food will do you proud, and probably blow away some of the misconceptions thrown around by forum pseudo scientists.
It's important to get a balance in philosophy between altering your ratios, and keeping things simple. They both should go hand in hand and if I haven't emphasised that, I should do now.
Cannabis is a broad range feeder and will take what it needs as long as the nutes are in the right proportions. But, it's up to you to make sure the broad range is a good range, and that in flower you keep a good healthy balance, but knock back the nitrogen.
Don't worry too much about the leaf ratio before your buds are set. That's something else you might misinterpret from what I've said.
In early flower all you are growing, contrary to what you said above, is leaf. The bud sites are like mini plants in that respect. It's only when the calyxes are being built and the bud is setting that you can get a gauge on whether they're leafy or not forming properly.
What you're really watching at the beginning of flower is the colour of green in the leaf, a waxy appearance and things like that.
Stay in a good range through that stage of flower. You need some N, but not too much. Bloom feeds should be P&K heavy but have enough N to keep a green colour.
Just concentrate on the basic aspects and don't make major swings. You'll find you can get results following a few different approaches and guides, and with a number of nutrient lines. At a certain point you want to get it that bit more fine tuned and that itself is achieved by making only simple alterations.
I posted this canopy picture in someone's thread to help them decide whether or not to defoliate. When I did I thought of this thread and what you said about multiple strains. Look at this canopy
Like I said earlier in the thread my camera is shit. But there are 6 different strains in that canopy and they're all being fed the same thing.
Keep your feed in a nice range and you'll be ok. Adjusting the nitrogen based on the appearance of your buds is something you'll get the hang of as you go on.
Don't sweat it too much right now. Post pictures in a couple of weeks of your buds up close and just see how they get on.
This
Doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with this
Getting your ratios in check and getting a good ratio which will do both bloom and flower are not the same thing. That's very important to know. I'm not so sure about the fascination with having a one size fits all feed for both stages of the cycle. There's nothing wrong with a one size fits veg and one which fits flowering.
Like I said before, don't worry yourself trying to get every single element in perfect balance. Concentrate more on the general ratio you should be hitting for veg, then for flower. Once you're in that range you will be fine by and large and any tweaks you make will be small ones, if you even make them at all.
Like I say, even a bottle of 4-4-8 tomato food will do you proud, and probably blow away some of the misconceptions thrown around by forum pseudo scientists.
It's important to get a balance in philosophy between altering your ratios, and keeping things simple. They both should go hand in hand and if I haven't emphasised that, I should do now.
Cannabis is a broad range feeder and will take what it needs as long as the nutes are in the right proportions. But, it's up to you to make sure the broad range is a good range, and that in flower you keep a good healthy balance, but knock back the nitrogen.
Don't worry too much about the leaf ratio before your buds are set. That's something else you might misinterpret from what I've said.
In early flower all you are growing, contrary to what you said above, is leaf. The bud sites are like mini plants in that respect. It's only when the calyxes are being built and the bud is setting that you can get a gauge on whether they're leafy or not forming properly.
What you're really watching at the beginning of flower is the colour of green in the leaf, a waxy appearance and things like that.
Stay in a good range through that stage of flower. You need some N, but not too much. Bloom feeds should be P&K heavy but have enough N to keep a green colour.
Just concentrate on the basic aspects and don't make major swings. You'll find you can get results following a few different approaches and guides, and with a number of nutrient lines. At a certain point you want to get it that bit more fine tuned and that itself is achieved by making only simple alterations.
I posted this canopy picture in someone's thread to help them decide whether or not to defoliate. When I did I thought of this thread and what you said about multiple strains. Look at this canopy
Like I said earlier in the thread my camera is shit. But there are 6 different strains in that canopy and they're all being fed the same thing.
Keep your feed in a nice range and you'll be ok. Adjusting the nitrogen based on the appearance of your buds is something you'll get the hang of as you go on.
Don't sweat it too much right now. Post pictures in a couple of weeks of your buds up close and just see how they get on.
Thats what I'm trying....From everything I've read, 50-50-100-67-33 would be just about ideal as possible for late flower....And its not a complex recipe at all..3 silica, 3micro, 9bloom. 550ppm, 6 feeds per day.
I have noticed my plants getting lighter over the last few days. Bud formation is taking off however..Not sure if this should be attributed to day 35 or to the change in nutes.
