Organics & coco

[stoneybud2]

Hello everyone.
I'm new to this site and growing in coco. I have done a few runs using synth. Nutes and all went well.
I've decided to try GH organic line. Few things that bother me is the box says "no need to ph" after I bubble the solution for 24hrs the ph is 7.0-7.6. I'm using RO water and ph'ing to 5.8
Thank you
SB2

 

[stoneybud2]

Really 20 views n no input?? Nadda nothing.
LH.

 

[Primalraindrop]

Organics. people usually dont ph much. usually just water and enjoy.

 

[stoneybud2]

Thanx for the reply. Greatly appreciated
That's what I've read n seen around. Very scared to start watering em with a ph of 7.0+ in coco at that.
Figured coco ph 5.8 "optimum" 6.5-7.0+ Would be crazy..
And it seems to take a lot a lot more down to bring it down just a few points.
Thanx again.
SB2

 

[Snow Crash]

Thanx for the reply. Greatly appreciated
That's what I've read n seen around. Very scared to start watering em with a ph of 7.0+ in coco at that.
Figured coco ph 5.8 "optimum" 6.5-7.0+ Would be crazy..
And it seems to take a lot a lot more down to bring it down just a few points.
Thanx again.
SB2

Organics is a totally different form of nutrient availability and delivery. As a result, a different pH range is used because the elements are made available through different means.

You shouldn't be brewing General Organics. They recommend against the practice. 2-6 hours, if you're absolutely convinced you're going to brew it, is the length to do it for.

That said, I have run General Organics a few times. So have many friends and customers. It is not an impressive system. It works, sure, but you're not going to get Hydro growth rates just because you're in a hydro media. It is my opinion that using genuine compost tea and amending the coco ahead of the time with some humus and compost is the best way to utilize coco organically.

 

[stoneybud2]

Thank you @snow crash

Ok that clears a little up for me. I shan't ph.
Sad to hear it's not "the best" line. But I'm wondering if you had a good coco recipe?
As for bubbling 24hr I'm gonna go with that's only for activisting n leaching in "brewing teas"
Only reason I was bubbling was I had mycro added.
And a friend told me to brew it up with some molasses also using cannazym
Was there any modification to the chart you found worked best with that line?
Once again thanx for the help.
SB2

 

[green path]

your pH is going up because carbon dioxide is introduced. bubbling isn't going to achieve much but wasting your time / energy.

in a true organic system, yes you don't need to pH no matter what the pH of your solution is, also because your solution doesn't really have a play with what the actual pH is in the media zone. That's more dependent on alkalinity / N sources that will affect pH.

organic does work, I use it currently, but I wouldn't say throwing a bottle at it is going to work, as I would suggest amending the coco first with a couple of things, mainly, gypsum / oyster / rock dust / seaweed / organic dry nute if you want... I have seen some bottle grows using organic and they worked fine though.

basically it's a trial and error system though, as nearly no one uses organic in coco right now..

 

[dansbuds]

basically it's a trial and error system though, as nearly no one uses organic in coco right now..

You noticed that too huh ??? most everybody that uses coco does it DTW or hempys & run chem nutes through it . i do know a couple guys using the GH organics on it & works pretty good for them , but its gotta be mixed & fed daily , you can't let the shit set for very long . so a rez is outa the question with it .& coco likes to be fed every day & even multiple times a day for that HYDRO growth .

 

[stoneybud2]

your pH is going up because carbon dioxide is introduced. bubbling isn't going to achieve much but wasting your time / energy.

in a true organic system, yes you don't need to pH no matter what the pH of your solution is, also because your solution doesn't really have a play with what the actual pH is in the media zone. That's more dependent on alkalinity / N sources that will affect pH.

organic does work, I use it currently, but I wouldn't say throwing a bottle at it is going to work, as I would suggest amending the coco first with a couple of things, mainly, gypsum / oyster / rock dust / seaweed / organic dry nute if you want... I have seen some bottle grows using organic and they worked fine though.

basically it's a trial and error system though, as nearly no one uses organic in coco right now..

Ok that makes sense on the bubbling,it is really low when first mixed. 3.9-4.3
That's what I want to do is go fully organic n feed teas every so often.
I know this isn't "true" organics but a starting point. I was using gh3 part prior to this.
So I could amend n use organicare pure dry nutes as well (example)??
Outta a 50l bag coco what would the measurements be for the listed above. Thank you.
SB2

 

[stoneybud2]

You noticed that too huh ??? most everybody that uses coco does it DTW or hempys & run chem nutes through it . i do know a couple guys using the GH organics on it & works pretty good for them , but its gotta be mixed & fed daily , you can't let the shit set for very long . so a rez is outa the question with it .& coco likes to be fed every day & even multiple times a day for that HYDRO growth .

Thank you.
I have also noticed that. Kinda taboo. And a lot of mixed info.
Ok I'll stop bubbling mix n use. I do water every day
SB2

 

[stoneybud2]

I really appreciate all the help and input guys.
When you guys water multiple times a day are you feedin x amount of water? Or till run off begins?
SB2

 

[Chevy cHaze]

I guess the "no ph adjusting" label on most organics is not for coco which doesn't have the ability to buffer the ph of your nute solution.
I think you will need to adjust ph to a hydro setup.
or you can mix earthworm castings to your coco and after that you can treat it more like soil.
hope this can help a tiny bit

all the best& take care

 

[stoneybud2]

I guess the "no ph adjusting" label on most organics is not for coco which doesn't have the ability to buffer the ph of your nute solution.
I think you will need to adjust ph to a hydro setup.
or you can mix earthworm castings to your coco and after that you can treat it more like soil.
hope this can help a tiny bit

all the best& take care

That's that ife been trying to figure out And what I figured bloody hell
Well that being the case shit eh. lol.
Thanx.
SB2

 

[dansbuds]

coco buffers the PH of your solution just fine !!! i don't know where you got that from Chevy , but its just not true . i think it buffers better than peat mixes do .

If my coco's runoff PH or EC gets outa whack , all it takes is a few feeds of adjusted feed & its back to normal within a day or 2 . & yes just feed till runoff .... how much is up to you . some say 10% others like as much as 40% .

 

[stoneybud2]

Kk
Well I'll give it a go. N that is simple enough to fix if outta whack.
And IMHO once water comes out 5-10%. Medium is wet could let it wick up some more but 30-40-50% IMO is a waste.
Thank you @dansbuds
SB2

 

[dansbuds]

And IMHO once water comes out 5-10%. Medium is wet could let it wick up some more

thats one thing you DON'T want to do .... is let the pots wick up any left over runoff !!! it drys out & the left over salts will fuk up the medium quicker than you think . salts will not build up in the medium if its kept wet . it takes the drying out for salts to build up , so by letting the runoff set & not draining it , your creating a problem in the coco . runoff HAS to be sucked up or drained off right after the feed .... within a half hour , i wouldn't let it set for more than that or it starts drying out .

 

[stoneybud2]

thats one thing you DON'T want to do .... is let the pots wick up any left over runoff !!! it drys out & the left over salts will fuk up the medium quicker than you think . salts will not build up in the medium if its kept wet . it takes the drying out for salts to build up , so by letting the runoff set & not draining it , your creating a problem in the coco . runoff HAS to be sucked up or drained off right after the feed .... within a half hour , i wouldn't let it set for more than that or it starts drying out .

Yeah I keep my medium "moist" and knew that bout the salts.
But knowing that and the wicking back up I never really thought of. I smacked myself no need to do it. Lol.if there not on a table (flood) I water till bout 5-10% or till I see a loll coming out. So I'm glad I have not had them wick up the shit.

Which makes sense having any extra salts flush out with run off.
Cheers.
SB2

 

[stoneybud2]

I emailed GH n got this. As a reply.

Hello,

I would just follow the schedule and double the dose of the CaMg+. If your
plants seem like they could use a little more food, increase the amount of
BioThrive grow or bloom but keep the supplements the same. Also, you may
want to first buffer your RO water with our Armor Si (silica additive) to
raise the pH before adding the G.O.

Thank you,

I've never used silica. But from what I know info is good.
N spot on from my experience.
Sad thing was I asked for info on there line. Amongst few others n that's all I got.

Thought I'd share
SB2

 

[tokinblackguy]

Greets stoneybud, welcome to IC. dansbuds is giving you some sound advice. I experimented with organics in coco.. GH GO, Roots Organics line, and dry amendments a lil while back. I didn't get to gather all of the info/detail I would like but could offer a few pointers. Along with dansbuds tips I would also point your attention to:

1. Treat like soil, get results like soil...period Keeping medium moist will yield better results, yield wise. Only time it's acceptable IMO to let medium dry out is with seedlings or clones trying to establish a root system.

2. You're going to need a bloom booster with either the GO or RO line. I used Humboldts Big Up Powder (i know not organic) but alls I had at the time. Roots now makes an organic/synthetic booster, haven't had a chance to try it yet but next on my list.

3. I ditched the GH schedule and replaced it with a formula more like H3ads recipe. The GH schedule resulted in leggy plants, maybe not so suited for mj in the ratios they give. I'll have to dig up the ratios I finally settled on if you'd like that info.

4. A silica additive is a good idea besides just with the ph help. Besides you'll use so little of it, the ph will only move .2-.5 depending on amount and water quality. Anymore and it throws the H3ads/Lucas formula off a bit, in my experience anyways.

5. I found that with the GO line and the RO line and mixtures of both, ph was not a problem in coco and I was using tap water sat out and bubbled for a day. I attributed it to the cation exchange of the coco along with the nutes soluble availability. I'm not 100% sure, I just know it worked.

I'll have to go back through my posts and check a few notes but I could get you some more info if you like. Hope this helps.

 

[stoneybud2]

Greets stoneybud, welcome to IC. dansbuds is giving you some sound advice. I experimented with organics in coco.. GH GO, Roots Organics line, and dry amendments a lil while back. I didn't get to gather all of the info/detail I would like but could offer a few pointers. Along with dansbuds tips I would also point your attention to:

1. Treat like soil, get results like soil...period Keeping medium moist will yield better results, yield wise. Only time it's acceptable IMO to let medium dry out is with seedlings or clones trying to establish a root system.

2. You're going to need a bloom booster with either the GO or RO line. I used Humboldts Big Up Powder (i know not organic) but alls I had at the time. Roots now makes an organic/synthetic booster, haven't had a chance to try it yet but next on my list.

3. I ditched the GH schedule and replaced it with a formula more like H3ads recipe. The GH schedule resulted in leggy plants, maybe not so suited for mj in the ratios they give. I'll have to dig up the ratios I finally settled on if you'd like that info.

4. A silica additive is a good idea besides just with the ph help. Besides you'll use so little of it, the ph will only move .2-.5 depending on amount and water quality. Anymore and it throws the H3ads/Lucas formula off a bit, in my experience anyways.

5. I found that with the GO line and the RO line and mixtures of both, ph was not a problem in coco and I was using tap water sat out and bubbled for a day. I attributed it to the cation exchange of the coco along with the nutes soluble availability. I'm not 100% sure, I just know it worked.

I'll have to go back through my posts and check a few notes but I could get you some more info if you like. Hope this helps.

Thank you.
Alright seems easy eanough to do. Will have to add the silica and get a booster. I'd love to use our tap water but just not able too ppm ranges from340-375. Very hard water lol.

I would love to give those ratios a go. I am noticeing the Kwangtung spacing compared to same strain b4 organics.
Any info you got I'd love to read.
Thank you for the advise n info man
SB2