Micro Grow Plan

[DogDad]

...high man, it's good to see you so focused and excited about your grow, unfortunately, this can lead you to make hasty decisions that you will regret later
...

That's what I have you guys for, to keep me from making mistakes.

Stealth is always important but I'm renting, have neighbors on both sides, above and below me. I vape to keep the smell down just in case. This is also a medical grow, but I am no in a MMJ state just yet. We expect it to pass this year, in which case I'll be the first in line to the Doctor.

I'll get the proper fan. NP.

Your PLL in a footlocker is more than I need. I was just looking at Mini fridges on Craigslist. They are the right size, has shelves and seal up from smell and don't leak.

I figure I could get 24 or more 20 oz. bottles in mini fridge which would supply me with more than enough for my personal needs.

Actually, I probably only need 1x1x2 to do all I need. Each bottle is 2.5"-3" so in 1 sq. foot.

There's 144 sq inches in 1 square foot and a 3" container is 9 sq inches. By this math I could grow 16 plants in a 12"x12" space.

The Coco growing fast is why I'm using it, becasue it's 12/12 from seed, they will be cut back once they reach the top of the container, then reveged, then re-flowered, two more times. I hope I have the overgrowth problem.

 

[DogDad]

Here's a new idea. A vertical PL-L grow using 20oz bottles. I don't know what a vertical grow is, but I read people thinking it was a good idea, and that the PL-L would do it.

Vertical CFL's would work too. Surround each bottle with a hanging CFL on each side.

PL-Ls would work well in the corners.

I see the PL-Ls mounted on a tray that can be raised and lowered. I would need a cab 2' plus deep or wide to raise or lower this tray. PL-s I belive are to be kept about 8" away, unlike CFL that can get very close.

But DrBud, didn't need any PL-L, HPS, LED, INC's DDT's, ETC's and we all wish our crops look like his. It's a weed.

 

[justanotherbozo]

...here's a couple of links to some vertical PLL grows to give you an idea.

"the high-pod" by Inefectualize

Seeking Critique on Vert Colosseum SOG concept. by Anti

...oh, and DrBud is an expert grower and breeder who has been at this game for more than 30 years, don't expect to match his results or you will be SORELY disappointed.

good luck, bozo

btw, i'm not sure that's Anti's PLL thread but it will still be well worth the read and it will lead you to his other threads, ...he is another who has been strongly influenced by DrBud AND he is VERY clever and determined, he finds a way to make things work.

 

[webecat]

Personally I am way to lazy to deal with all of those 32oz bottles. Another thought is if you stay with auto flowers your always. Using seeds, and I haven't had a lot of luck getting what I order personally. I'm a big fan of perpetual growing, if you can order seeds or pick up some clones your good to go. That being said check this thread I posted on deftoners thread the other day: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=49829. I have been curious about CFL's myself so I just built a small cab for fun since Blynx inspired me.

 

[DogDad]

...here's a couple of links to some vertical PLL grows to give you an idea.

"the high-pod" by Inefectualize

Seeking Critique on Vert Colosseum SOG concept. by Anti

The problem with Anti is he isn't motivated. He took serious what DrBud poked in fun. 2.5x2.5x10 is amazing.

The trash can grow was fun.

Thanks for posting both.

I just called on a mini fridge for sale. He said it was 17" wide, so I couldn't use PLL's unless they were vertical.

I wonder how wide that HTsuppy 150w is with the hood and if that would fit in the mini fridge?

 

[DogDad]

Personally I am way to lazy to deal with all of those 32oz bottles.

Sure, but the concept is the same even if you grow in a 1 gallon bucket. According the the Dr, you can grow 3-4 in a one gallon, meaning 15 or 20 in a 5 gallon.

If you planted a trough as long as you were within 2.5 inches in ANY direction and 10" deep, you should be fine. That's the basis for the French intensive gardening and what Anti worked out as minimal growing space.

I have a new question. DrBud said he revegged twice before the soil was depleted and the plant was useless. What if we were using Coco? Does Coco ever get depleted? Could you conceivably have the same plant growing for 10 years?

 

[fukndenny]

I dont see how a Pl-l system could be any harder to plug and play then a HPS system.
But go with HPS if your degrees dont disagree!

Well let's think about it. The 150w HPS you take out of the box, plug it in, hang the reflector, turn it on, and you're done.

The PL-L's you need to get a ballast, wire them, figure out a method to mount them to a makeshift reflector which you must build or buy, and then install.

Personally I enjoy simple things. That's just me.

 

[fukndenny]

I wonder how wide that HTsuppy 150w is with the hood and if that would fit in the mini fridge?

I have the same hood right next to me, it measures about 14"L x 11"W

 

[DogDad]

Ok, I have my cab. I'm using one I have.

It's 20" deep, 18" wide and is 15" tall but expandable to 22" tall. It's made of wood.

I've rethought a couple of things.

First, I need to determine two things:

If I can grow it
If I want to grow it

Is it going to be more trouble than it's worth? I don't know but all this research is time consuming. It's time to go or don't.

One of the things I notice is a lot of used gear on the market. i suspect people get in there, can't figure out how to grow and have spent all this money. I don't want to be one of those people.

Another thing. There is nothing to say that I need to spend $200 on odor control until I have flowers. If I get to the flowers stage, I'll have no problem spending what I need. Let's hope I have that problem.

I should use every material I have on hand on this first build as long as it will get the job done. I have plenty of PC case fans. I used to build all my own computers. Rather than spend $30.00 on Mylar, use the Dollar store tin foil I have in my pantry. Use everything I have around here and buy only what I don't have but absolutely need.

1. I'm thinking about trying something different but using what I have learned here. A vertical CFL using spirals. My local dollar store has 2700k 23w for 1650 lumens for $3.00. That is 16,500 lumens if I can get 10 in my cab. My idea is to take each plant and surround all sides with a CFL. The downside is moving the light.

That would be the most efficient lighting without going PL-L. I can't use PL-L in this cab because of size.

2. Buy the 150w and put the ballast outside.

The issue with this build is going to be the cab height which is another reason to go CFL so the lights can almost touch. Let's hope I have that problem.

3. There is now a new option. 4 x 42w in this parabolic reflector. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Photo-Studi...tter-Light-Bulbs-Adapter-Holder-/251314985684

 

[DogDad]

The cab build has started in earnest. I have enough room for 12 plants at 3" each. My total bottom usable area is 20"x16".

I have devised a way to go as high as 28" if need be. This is nearly the size of the tent.

There are some hole here and there, which I will cover as best I can.
Some I will use as a passive intake, and active outtake.

The first PC fan I'll install is the Xigmatek. It's similar to this one and also 56cfm. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233082

This fan will probably become another interior fan once I do the Odor control, but until it starts to smell in there, this is my exhaust fan.

I also have 4 x 80mm Panaoflo 1bx's. I bought those specifically for efficiency and how quiet they were the last time I build a PC. They will live on.

The cover plan for the box is to cover much of it in reflective material and the bottom in white poly. Then cut or expose what holes I need. I think I can get windshield reflectors at the dollar store, cut then to size and use Velcro to attach them. I'm going to work on this part today.

Here are some images of the cab.

 

[Icu 812]

Hi there Dogdad. Love that you are getting started. Couple things I would suggest dont use tin/aluminium foil, if you are on a budget any bigstoree with a camping section you can buy a mylar survival blanket at for about $2 wich is more then enough to cover the area of the cab that is pictured in you last post. If you think that the mylar might be to much of a hassle to mount to the walls (I found doulblesided tape to work well) you could always you FLAT white paint do not use gloss or high gloss will lose some of the reflective ability. Also dont forget to make a intake hole or 2. The cab build getting it tweaked and just right is the hardest part. Best of luck to you. Will be watching.

 

[justanotherbozo]

...here is an article that gives some details on the pro's and con's of different materials, ...i personally prefer the Elastomeric paint for it's high reflectivity, it's water resistance and it's mildew resistance.

peace, bozo

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[FONT=&quot]
Foylon:

A more durable version of mylar, made of spun polyester fabric and reinforced with foil laminate. Foylon is resistant to most solutions, won't tear or fade, and can be wiped or washed clean.

A great solution for growers who are interested in long term use, and though it may be slightly more expensive than mylar, its durability will more than make up for its cost. It has the ability to reflect about 95% of the light and approximately 85% of the heat energy, so a good ventilation system should be used in conjunction with folyon.

A recommended method to attach Foylon to the walls would be using Velcro, as it makes taking it down for cleaning much easier nd reduces the risk of tearing, creasing or bending it. If this is used for your walls, making sure you get it flush with the wall with no pockets of air between it and the wall to prevent hotspots.

Mylar:

A highly reflective polyester film that comes in varying thickness, the most common being 1 and 2 mm thick. The 2mm thick mylar while not quite as durable as the foylon, is fairly rugged. The 1mm thick mylar tears fairly easily, so taking it down for cleaning is quite difficult without damaging it in the process. Both types of mylar are able to reflect approximately 92-97% reflective, giving it the potential to be more reflective than foylon, but because foylon is more easily cleaned without damaging it as well as it being harder to crease, foylon usually ends up being slightly more reflective. Important to note is that mylar reflects radiant heat energy just as well as foylon (around 85%), so proper ventilation is necessary if mylar is used in your grow room. Attaching this to walls can be done in a similar fashion as foylon, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hotspots in your room. The 1mm thick mylar stands a fair chance of being creased or ripped in the process unfortunately, even if Velcro is used to attach to the walls.

C3 anti-detection film:

A specialized type of mylar that exhibits the same properties as the 2mm thick mylar, but in addition to reflecting approximately 92-97% of the light, it also is 90% infrared proof, making your grow room all but invisible to IR scanning. This can also be attached in the same manner as foylon or mylar, and the same caution should be used to avoid creating hotspots in your room.

Flat white paint:

Self explanatory; a great option for large grow rooms or for people who are interested in a low maintenance wall. Flat white paint has the ability to reflect between 75-85% of the light, and does not create hotspots. Adding a fungicide is recommended when painting.

Glossy and eggshell whites not reflect light as efficiently as flat white. Semi-gloss paint for example, only has the ability to reflect between 55-60% of the light. Also important to remember when using paint is that any smears or blemishes on the surface take away from how reflective the wall is so care should be taken to avoid marking or staining the walls. Titanium white paint is very reflective; however it is usually only used on reflectors due to its high cost.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Elastomeric paint (info by furun)

A rubberized roofing paint with 90% reflection. Good for growboxes. Mildew resistant. Highly reflective.

Kool Seal White Elastomeric Roof Coating ~ $15.00 (1 Gallon)

Ultra high reflectivity
Forms a rubber-like blanket that expands and contracts
Adheres to almost any surface (very good on wood and metal)
Available @ [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lowe's Home Improvement: Buy Kitchen Cabinets, Paint, Appliances & Flooring[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

White/Black plastic (also known as panda plastic or "poly"):

"Poly" is useful if you are setting up a temporary grow room or don’t want to damage the walls. Poly is easily cleaned.

The purpose of the black side is to not allow any light to pass through the plastic, which ensures your dark cycle remains dark. The white side is 75-90% reflective. Choose a 6 "mill" thickness of poly for maximum light blockage and duribility.

If this plastic is put too close to the light, you will obviously melt it so be careful!. Panda plastic does not create hotspots. Poly can be attached to the walls by using carpenter’s nails or using tape glue or similar means. This can be used as a cheap alternative to mylar if painting your grow room is out of the question.

Polystyrene Foam Sheeting (more commonly known as Styrofoam):

This is excellent for harsh environment growrooms (your attic for example), provided you have a good ventilation system and a way to keep the temperatures from rising too high (an a/c unit or similar) as it is an excellent insulator.

It is also a great material for use in a temporary setup or for use as a "travelling reflector" on a light mover, where weight is a concern. It is approximately 75-85% light reflective so it is comparable to using a flat white paint. Foam will not create hot spots. Rigid foam can be purchased in sheets, and can be used as a free standing wall or can be taped, glued or nailed to the wall, the last generally being the most successful method.

Emergency Blankets:

These are ultra thin polyester blankets that are sold in most camping stores and are constructed of a single layer of polyester film that is covered with a layer of vapor deposited aluminum.

It is not very effective at reflecting light because it is so thin. Holding it between you and a light source, many small holes are noticed at the intersections of creases and the entire blanket is translucent to begin with, this coupled with the many creases that are in it when you purchase it takes away a significant amount of it reflectivity. It is very easily creased as well which also detracts from its ability to reflect light. And while it is reflects nearly 90% of radiant heat energy, it is only able to reflect around 70% of the light.

The largest advantage of using this type of material is that it is very cheap and therefore easily replaced. Emergency blankets can create hotspots if not attached flush to the wall so it is important that no air gaps exist between it and your supporting wall. The easiest way to attach this is to use tape (Aluminum or metal tape is recommended), as it tears very easily once it is cut or punctured.

Aluminum Foil:

Aluminum foil is no more than 55% reflective - if used, make sure that the dull side is the one that is used to reflect the light. When it becomes creased its reflectivity is even lower (around 35%.) It is also very dangerous to use because it creates hotspots easily, is electrically conductive, and is a fire hazard when it is in close contact with HID lighting. Attaching this to walls is a pain and usually using aluminum tape or glue is the best way. This should only be used as a last resort, and even then its usefulness is questionable.[/FONT]

 

[touchofgrey]

There should be an edit button on your posts. You can go into the post and delete things and edit as you wish. There might be a minimum number of posts before you can edit.

 

[DogDad]

fuck, how do I delete them?

 

[DogDad]

yortbogey deleted them, Thanks!!

I cant' figure out how to edit this forum. Unless O can do that, I won;t be able to stay here.

 

[justanotherbozo]

...i'm pretty sure the ability to edit your posts is a privilege you earn through post count, ...this may be one of several features that become available at 50 posts, like the right to a custom avatar for example, here is a link that explains most but i don't think all of these details.

ICMag.com Member and Subscriber Benefits

...if this is NOT the case then it is an error that you are unable to edit your posts and it will be corrected in time.

...the management has a lot on it's plate right now so be patient, ...frankly though, i think it's a post count thing.

peace, bozo

 

[justanotherbozo]

...btw, whenever you upload your pics you should strip them of metadata first if you can, i believe this site strips that data automatically for ALL pictures that get uploaded but it sure can't hurt for you to do it too, you can't be too safe.

peace, bozo

 

[touchofgrey]

You will need to reach a minimum number of posts before you have the ability to edit. I forget if it's 50 or what. I don't know why that is but it is fairly typical on these forums.

 

[DogDad]

I've decided that I'm not going to grow.

Thanks for all your help anyway.

yortbogey? Please delete my account and if you would be so kind please delete all my posts.

Thanks.

 

[DogDad]

I have asked to delete my account. Please consider editing yours as well.

Best of luck to all!

DD, has left the building...