Undercurrent DWC root clog!

[vspin]

I have an undercurrent DWC and I started hearing my water pump making sputtering noises as if it was not pulling in enough water. I looked in a bucket nearest the end of the chain and found it had very little water while the buckets near the controller had plenty. I lifted up all the buckets and found that roots were clogging the undercurrent lines.

Any way, my lines are 1-1/2" PVC (in hindsight, should have got at least 2"), and the PVC is pushed in the bucket with an angle cut through a Uniseal. Any ideas of what I can put on the PVC to restrict roots from growing/flowing down the pipe?

Thanks

 

[vspin]

Hmm, maybe I could create something with a roll of aluminum or fiberglass screen..? It won't keep the roots out entirely, but it will eliminate a free path.

 

[budshoteyes]

Cut the roots! Trim them to let the water flow!
How far into your run are the plants...flowering,near their ending?

I've trimmed roots without it stunting growth in earlier stages like veg on table style growing.

If you have a screen in mind I'm not sure how long it would work....wouldn't it get plugged too?
I'd add a top/side drain in each bucket and it would permanently solve the water flow.

How many buckets and grow stage is how much work it'll take will determine what and when you'll have to do to fix the flow.

 

[zero244]

Go to a professional paint store and buy a 5 gal paint strainer and line the inside of your bucket, putting your air stone inside the strainer as well. This is what I do and seems to keep the roots contained enough to not clog the tubing. They cost less than two dollar each. I use the one with a elastic band around the top which allows it to fit snug on the bucket.

 

[Bennyweed1]

I have used orange security fencing you see at concerts. Bought it at Home Depot. I formed a rounded ball with the stuff and stuck it over the PVC pipe. It breaks up the current and diffuses and prevent the roots from balling up.

 

[Dank Demon]

I used copper fine mesh bought an A4 filter grade sheet on ebay and cut it to fit over the outlets to stop the roots being sucked in.

Peace

 

[uraceulose]

I just used a simple window screen cut to size and then a hose clamp around the end of the PVC sticking out into the bucket to hold the screen.

 

[Stagetek]

I used copper fine mesh bought an A4 filter grade sheet on ebay and cut it to fit over the outlets to stop the roots being sucked in.

Peace

Not the best solution, if you use RO water as the copper can leach into your nute solution. Same reason why you can't plumb a fridge with copper line from an RO unit.

 

[vspin]

Sorry for no follow-up guys. I marked all your posts for taking the time to offer help. I ended up going with zero244's solution. Although, for some reason the flow is slowing down again, but not too bad. I have only 16 days left so I'm going to make adjustments next grow, including budshoteyes's suggestion of adding a topside drain.

 

[gmanwho]

Larger PVC. Gonna be running 3" myself..

b-safe

 

[vspin]

Larger PVC. Gonna be running 3" myself..

b-safe

Curious, will you be using Uniseals and 5-gal. buckets? I had a hell of a time with the 1-1/2" Uniseals and 5 gal. buckets. Felt like the buckets were near breaking, even with the angle cuts and lubricant.

 

[gmanwho]

Curious, will you be using Uniseals and 5-gal. buckets? I had a hell of a time with the 1-1/2" Uniseals and 5 gal. buckets. Felt like the buckets were near breaking, even with the angle cuts and lubricant.

New spot, new room project. So gonna be running rubbermaid tubs actually. 54 gal wide babys, 2 of the 10 inch net pot planters that fit over a 5 gal. 2 plants per tub, top drip black hole drippers. 3600gph pump. shallow water in the tub. think the tubs where 26 in wide by 44 inches long. Not sure how deep i want the water level just yet. I do have the 3" uniseals, which take a 4" hole saw cut. I would like to run only a few inches of water vs a dwc. With my hydro experience i wanna say the 1-1/2 in prob would clog too. If you have extra 1-1/2's uniseals, maybe double them up an join them before the pump. One low,an one higer. Like an over under shotgun. I think part of the uniseal design is to have alot of surface tension so it seals correctly with force. The seals are new to me as well. with the uniseals, have you had any issues with other then being difficult to assemble an slide the pvc into place? b-safe

 

[vspin]

New spot, new room project. So gonna be running rubbermaid tubs actually. 54 gal wide babys, 2 of the 10 inch net pot planters that fit over a 5 gal. 2 plants per tub, top drip black hole drippers. 3600gph pump. shallow water in the tub. think the tubs where 26 in wide by 44 inches long. Not sure how deep i want the water level just yet. I do have the 3" uniseals, which take a 4" hole saw cut. I would like to run only a few inches of water vs a dwc. With my hydro experience i wanna say the 1-1/2 in prob would clog too. If you have extra 1-1/2's uniseals, maybe double them up an join them before the pump. One low,an one higer. Like an over under shotgun. I think part of the uniseal design is to have alot of surface tension so it seals correctly with force. The seals are new to me as well. with the uniseals, have you had any issues with other then being difficult to assemble an slide the pvc into place? b-safe

Sounds very cool. Agree with you.

Well, with the 5 gallon bucket walls being curved, I had to be careful that I was drilling precisely, otherwise I ended up with an oval hole. Also, I had very slow leaks on two buckets around the Uniseals, but after I added my nutes, the leaks clogged/stopped. I imagine the holes were not clean and precise on the leak buckets, which is important for the Uniseal.

Considering that my Uniseals are much smaller than yours, and that 5 gallon buckets are more rigid than tubs, I'm wondering if you're going to have an even more difficult time assembling?..

 

[sahdgrower]

Hey Vspin I like the idea of gman of doing the over under pipes. On your next run though toss the uniseals and use electrical conduit fittings with a gasket. Check out Snype's RDWC tutorial. Has all the info you need. I went with 1 1/2" uniseals my first try at building the system and it was hell. I rebuilt it with gaskets and fittings and it was sooo much easier. Depending on your costs of parts it is in range with what you pay for a uniseal.

 

[gmanwho]

i like 5 gal buckets, but i see how quickly the bucket can still fill an max out with roots in a hydro setup. But then again i ran some serious plants in a One gallon bucket in bucket system with great results before an only 1/2in hose. but the system had the flood portion which prob helped push roots out of the hose with every cycle. 5gal is just that much better.

now weather or not my next thought on having wider buckets vs taller buckets plays out. Will be a few months.

and as sahdgrower said, they do make some nice sealed conduit pieces. Ans for ease they are found in the the electrical area at lowes or depot.


sorry for no spacing , using a proxy right now an it seems to omit the spaces in between paragraphs for some reason.

b-safe

 

[gmanwho]

.

.

whattta you know , the paragraph spacing worked last time

 

[Stagetek]

I used copper fine mesh bought an A4 filter grade sheet on ebay and cut it to fit over the outlets to stop the roots being sucked in.

Peace

Best be careful with copper; if you use RO water the copper is going to leach into your nute solution. If you feed RO water through your house they warn you not to use copper tubing and to go with PEX instead.

 

[313Ninja]

Have a much shorter veg. IN DWC the plants will still be monsters, and you avoid a lot of the problems people have with roots by making sure your root ball doesn't get out of hand.

Check out ODETOTHETREE on instagram....you will see what I mean. On a side note...if any of you guys check that out, I would love your opinion on how much he defoliates.

 

[JoeyBoomBots]

Many have had this problem

Many have had this problem

I have an undercurrent DWC and I started hearing my water pump making sputtering noises as if it was not pulling in enough water. I looked in a bucket nearest the end of the chain and found it had very little water while the buckets near the controller had plenty. I lifted up all the buckets and found that roots were clogging the undercurrent lines.

Any way, my lines are 1-1/2" PVC (in hindsight, should have got at least 2"), and the PVC is pushed in the bucket with an angle cut through a Uniseal. Any ideas of what I can put on the PVC to restrict roots from growing/flowing down the pipe?

Thanks

There is no need for a central reservoir in DWC. There is also no need for piping connections between containers. Definitely no need for a recirculating water pump. I want you to think about this... Set-up as many 20 gallon Rubbermaid Brute bins (or pails but the bins are better because there is more surface area exposed at the air/water surface) as you can fit into your growing area. For example, you can easily fit 18 bins in a 12 x 8 x 6 (LWH) room. Equip each bin with a level sensor. Not a float switch because that will not work. I invented the level sensor. Its failure proof. There is no DIY equivalent. You can't buy it yet. Lucky for you that it will be available to all after I become a proper paid advertiser on this site. It will be available in Summer 2015. That is the beginning of the end for systems with connected water plumbing. Sorry, but superior methods vanquish inferior methods. Thats the way of the world and nobody can change that. Please, don't hate on the messenger for giving it to you straight. The level sensor of each bin "tells" the auto top-up system when it's thirsty.This level sensor cannot be defeated by plant roots or whitewater surface agitation(which is exactly what you need).This level sensor cannot break with the conditions of hydroponic use either, for any reason. It also automatically stops your water change pump from filling when the exact water level desired is reached, same way you pump your gas . It stops when the tank is full and always at the exact same level. Attach the wire leads of the level sensor to a central auto top-up system (not available yet, will be in Summer 2015). With all this in place, you never need to enter your grow room for water changes or water top-up thereby greatly reducing the risk of introducing spider mites into your grow room. Assuming you are using air intake filters that are of a mesh fine enough to trap spider mites.
The air stones are supplied with air from real serious Danner Pondmaster air pumps. The size of which depends on how many air stones you are supplying. You should have at least 2 air pumps to feed either of the two air discs just in case one pump diaphragm breaks down...the key phrase here is Industrial Redundancy. Always a copious amount of air blowing through the roots no matter what happens.
Each Rubbermaid bin(the blue Brute brand, definitely NOT the Roughneck brand) holds a plant or two (you can use any grow media without worrying about it clogging your plumbing because there is no water plumbing!) and it's not connected together with the other bins...not ever because there is no need.The water from each bin is totally separated from the other bins. Why would you include the possibility of a catastrophic root clog in the design of a hydroponic system ?? Beats me. On top of that caveat, plumbed together DWC systems will never have any chance of supplying the amount of oxygen to the roots that stand alone containers with twin air stones would provide.
So we have established a reliable air supply that can never ever fails you unless you stopped paying your electric bill and we have eliminated root clogs so this means you will never have a flood due to a completely un-necessary and watt wasting water pump or any other reason for that matter.This top-up system is also flood proof because there is nothing about the system that could "fake out" the sensor. So, overall we have now established a flood/failure proof system with a ridiculous amount of air for those roots. It's also worth noting that it doesn't matter how much your roots grow...they can overgrow out of the bin(not even possible) and you still won't get a flood or fake out the sensor. How's that for Industrial Mightiness?

Next, you will install a 1-1/2" pvc elbow with a short length of pipe that goes down to the bottom of your bin (within 1/4" of the bottom) and another length of pvc pipe protruding from the other end of the 90 degree elbow to outside of the room.I use a pipe reamer and 3 different grades of sand paper to make the end of your 1-1/2" pvc "straw" smooth so that it is impossible to harm roots when water changes are taking place. You will have this dedicated "straw/filling line" installed on each of your containers. Now you can suck the water out of the bin(completely...you can't do that with a water pump!)with a shop vac (it will not harm your roots, guaranteed , I used this method for years).You can also stick a hose in this pipe to fill your bin when doing a water change (which is not often because of the incredible stability that 13 gallons per plant will give you). You just use a 16 gallon shop vac and you get all the water out of the bin in one shot without having to stop to empty the shop vac. The 20 gallon Rubbermaid bins are set to hold approximately 13 gallons of water to make this possible. When you're done sucking the water out with the vac just dunk a de-watering pump with a hose attached into the shop vac and pump out the water in the vac and then lift up the shop vac with the tiny bit of water remaining at the bottom of the vac and dump the water down the drain.
There are also 4 separate tubing lines (LLDPE) connected to the Rubbermaid lid for remote water sampling (via large plastic syringe) and nutrient/additive addition. You can check pH from outside the room. You can add nutes from outside the room. No need to enter the grow room for the sake of the water, not ever. Need I remind you that the key to greatly reducing spider mites in the grow room is to stay out of it as much as possible?
If you have a problem with a REAL automated DWC system that utilizes 13 gallons per plant, please...stop reading now. If the pinnacle of hydroponic superiority is your goal, then please continue without detraction or non-sensical self defeating jealousy. This is exactly what happens whenever I try to introduce this true industrial strength DWC system, and that is why I have been harboring it even before the days of the UnderCurrent system. Thats right! I've been sitting on this for 7 years now.
This is my 4th attempt to see if the indoor growing sector of mankind is worthy to accept such an offering. Every time i've made this post Ive had so many nay sayers. These people are laughably comparable to those who would not and could not believe that the world is a sphere. Please, I implore you to use your common sense. This time, regardless of initial reactions of this post I promise to debut my system in the Summer of 2015, after becoming a paid advertiser of course. I won't start my own thread on this matter until I have paid my just due for such exposure. Until then, you may ask questions about the system but I won't give up my trade secrets.

It is also worthwhile to mention that my intent is not to sell you containers. Why would anybody want to buy containers that are inferior to 20 gallon Rubbermaid Brute bins at an incredibly exorbitant mark-up?? I would supply a sturdy hole cutting template that overlaps the Rubbermaid bin lids. You just buy the Rubbermaid Brute bins yourself from one of the big house ware stores. You would be provided with a list of which hole saws to buy(from the house ware store ) and the template holes will be numbered according to the type of system you wish to incorporate. You need controls for top-up and water change while eliminating the possibility of floods. You don't need overpriced water boxes. Along with that the necessary tubing and apparatus to facilitate water changes and air delivery.By the way, 1/4" hose just isn't correct for air distribution at the scale of DWC. Neither is 3/8" or 1/2". Only 3/4"(or larger) pvc tubing does the job correctly. A reduction in tubing size is only allowed immediately before the air stone itself. There would be a series of videos available for free to help you decide which configuration is best for your application. These videos will also provide soup-to-nuts information on everything else that affects your grow so that if you're a total beginner you will still be able to produce the results of the hydroponic royalty that have came before you (but even better!).
What I have done for DWC I have also done for climate control but lets take this one step at a time.I will also be providing a set and forget damper actuator controller that eliminates the need for heaters for those who grow in colder climates.

 

[The Doktor]

There is no need for a central reservoir in DWC. There is also no need for piping connections between containers. Definitely no need for a recirculating water pump. I want you to think about this... Set-up as many 20 gallon Rubbermaid Brute bins (or pails but the bins are better because there is more surface area exposed at the air/water surface) as you can fit into your growing area. For example, you can easily fit 18 bins in a 12 x 8 x 6 (LWH) room. Equip each bin with a level sensor. Not a float switch because that will not work. I invented the level sensor. Its failure proof. There is no DIY equivalent. You can't buy it yet. Lucky for you that it will be available to all after I become a proper paid advertiser on this site. It will be available in Summer 2015. That is the beginning of the end for systems with connected water plumbing. Sorry, but superior methods vanquish inferior methods. Thats the way of the world and nobody can change that. Please, don't hate on the messenger for giving it to you straight. The level sensor of each bin "tells" the auto top-up system when it's thirsty.This level sensor cannot be defeated by plant roots or whitewater surface agitation(which is exactly what you need).This level sensor cannot break with the conditions of hydroponic use either, for any reason. It also automatically stops your water change pump from filling when the exact water level desired is reached, same way you pump your gas . It stops when the tank is full and always at the exact same level. Attach the wire leads of the level sensor to a central auto top-up system (not available yet, will be in Summer 2015). With all this in place, you never need to enter your grow room for water changes or water top-up thereby greatly reducing the risk of introducing spider mites into your grow room. Assuming you are using air intake filters that are of a mesh fine enough to trap spider mites.
The air stones are supplied with air from real serious Danner Pondmaster air pumps. The size of which depends on how many air stones you are supplying. You should have at least 2 air pumps to feed either of the two air discs just in case one pump diaphragm breaks down...the key phrase here is Industrial Redundancy. Always a copious amount of air blowing through the roots no matter what happens.
Each Rubbermaid bin(the blue Brute brand, definitely NOT the Roughneck brand) holds a plant or two (you can use any grow media without worrying about it clogging your plumbing because there is no water plumbing!) and it's not connected together with the other bins...not ever because there is no need.The water from each bin is totally separated from the other bins. Why would you include the possibility of a catastrophic root clog in the design of a hydroponic system ?? Beats me. On top of that caveat, plumbed together DWC systems will never have any chance of supplying the amount of oxygen to the roots that stand alone containers with twin air stones would provide.
So we have established a reliable air supply that can never ever fails you unless you stopped paying your electric bill and we have eliminated root clogs so this means you will never have a flood due to a completely un-necessary and watt wasting water pump or any other reason for that matter.This top-up system is also flood proof because there is nothing about the system that could "fake out" the sensor. So, overall we have now established a flood/failure proof system with a ridiculous amount of air for those roots. It's also worth noting that it doesn't matter how much your roots grow...they can overgrow out of the bin(not even possible) and you still won't get a flood or fake out the sensor. How's that for Industrial Mightiness?

Next, you will install a 1-1/2" pvc elbow with a short length of pipe that goes down to the bottom of your bin (within 1/4" of the bottom) and another length of pvc pipe protruding from the other end of the 90 degree elbow to outside of the room.I use a pipe reamer and 3 different grades of sand paper to make the end of your 1-1/2" pvc "straw" smooth so that it is impossible to harm roots when water changes are taking place. You will have this dedicated "straw/filling line" installed on each of your containers. Now you can suck the water out of the bin(completely...you can't do that with a water pump!)with a shop vac (it will not harm your roots, guaranteed , I used this method for years).You can also stick a hose in this pipe to fill your bin when doing a water change (which is not often because of the incredible stability that 13 gallons per plant will give you). You just use a 16 gallon shop vac and you get all the water out of the bin in one shot without having to stop to empty the shop vac. The 20 gallon Rubbermaid bins are set to hold approximately 13 gallons of water to make this possible. When you're done sucking the water out with the vac just dunk a de-watering pump with a hose attached into the shop vac and pump out the water in the vac and then lift up the shop vac with the tiny bit of water remaining at the bottom of the vac and dump the water down the drain.
There are also 4 separate tubing lines (LLDPE) connected to the Rubbermaid lid for remote water sampling (via large plastic syringe) and nutrient/additive addition. You can check pH from outside the room. You can add nutes from outside the room. No need to enter the grow room for the sake of the water, not ever. Need I remind you that the key to greatly reducing spider mites in the grow room is to stay out of it as much as possible?
If you have a problem with a REAL automated DWC system that utilizes 13 gallons per plant, please...stop reading now. If the pinnacle of hydroponic superiority is your goal, then please continue without detraction or non-sensical self defeating jealousy. This is exactly what happens whenever I try to introduce this true industrial strength DWC system, and that is why I have been harboring it even before the days of the UnderCurrent system. Thats right! I've been sitting on this for 7 years now.
This is my 4th attempt to see if the indoor growing sector of mankind is worthy to accept such an offering. Every time i've made this post Ive had so many nay sayers. These people are laughably comparable to those who would not and could not believe that the world is a sphere. Please, I implore you to use your common sense. This time, regardless of initial reactions of this post I promise to debut my system in the Summer of 2015, after becoming a paid advertiser of course. I won't start my own thread on this matter until I have paid my just due for such exposure. Until then, you may ask questions about the system but I won't give up my trade secrets.

It is also worthwhile to mention that my intent is not to sell you containers. Why would anybody want to buy containers that are inferior to 20 gallon Rubbermaid Brute bins at an incredibly exorbitant mark-up?? I would supply a sturdy hole cutting template that overlaps the Rubbermaid bin lids. You just buy the Rubbermaid Brute bins yourself from one of the big house ware stores. You would be provided with a list of which hole saws to buy(from the house ware store ) and the template holes will be numbered according to the type of system you wish to incorporate. You need controls for top-up and water change while eliminating the possibility of floods. You don't need overpriced water boxes. Along with that the necessary tubing and apparatus to facilitate water changes and air delivery.By the way, 1/4" hose just isn't correct for air distribution at the scale of DWC. Neither is 3/8" or 1/2". Only 3/4"(or larger) pvc tubing does the job correctly. A reduction in tubing size is only allowed immediately before the air stone itself. There would be a series of videos available for free to help you decide which configuration is best for your application. These videos will also provide soup-to-nuts information on everything else that affects your grow so that if you're a total beginner you will still be able to produce the results of the hydroponic royalty that have came before you (but even better!).
What I have done for DWC I have also done for climate control but lets take this one step at a time.I will also be providing a set and forget damper actuator controller that eliminates the need for heaters for those who grow in colder climates.

WHAT A CROCK OF STEAMING SHIT!