Calcium/Magnesium?

[The_Core]

Hey everyone, Need some help.

Week 3+
Azucar seedling looks to have Calcium and or Magnesium shortage/deficiency.
Tell me what you think.

Up until the last watering I was using RO Water PH adjusted and 10PPM. I know the RO removed all of the possible Cal/Mag in the water, but the starting Tap is only 80-90 PPM x500 scale. So I had virtually nothing in the tap water anyway.

All of the waterings have been PH adjusted to 6.5-6-8. Last watering was THE FIRST with 330 PPM of the full biobizz lineup and that was also the first time I used the 90 PPM Tap water. I used everything at 1/3 strength So only about 240 PPM of biobizz. Very low for a 3 week old plant.

Soil is pre fertilized garden soil, commercial brand here in Europe, I amended it with a 1-1-1 ratio of garden soil, perlite, vermiculite and Mycorrhizae powder.

When I watered yesterday for the first time with the tap water and biobizz mixture I measured PH and PPM going in and coming out.

6.5 PH and 330 PPM going in
6.8 PH and 440 PPM coming out

I am guessing with those measurements the soil PH is 6.6 to 6.7 and the PPMs show me that I am no where near over fertilizing a 3 week old plant. So.......The issue with my plant I am thinking is a shortage of cal/mag because I was using commercial garden soil and RO water. What do all of you out there think is wrong?

 

[Illadelphi]

Yeah it's magnesium def. you're on the right track with the feed, she's just hungry. I would suggest that if you use straight RO not to pH it because you're adding dissolved solids from the ph up and down. With pure RO pH readings aren't stable until you add something and at that point can change the pH of the RO quite a bit.

Next time you check runoff water with pure RO and as soon as it hits the soil it will become the soils pH. You can add some dolomite lime to help buffer the soil as well.

Your girl will look fine soon! Hope this helps

 

[The_Core]

Thanks for the help Illadelphi!

So your saying I have a case of Mag deficiency.
Tap is 8.0 PH and 90 PPM. If I use the RO it lowers it to 7.5 PH and 10 PPM. The PH from straight tap water or RO water is both too high to water with so......I have to adjust it to 6.5 no matter what.

Your saying that pure RO water with PH up or PH down is a bad idea because of dissolved solids? How will I adjust my RO water PH without PH up and down?

Your saying that when I water my plants with RO water that the runoff will automatically take the same PH as the soil? How can that be? My understanding of PH in and PH out is that the only way the PH coming out will match what your putting in the soil is if you flush it with an insane amount of water? I don't think I know anyone that waters the soil and has the exact same PH come out the bottom.....Can you explain these things further?

 

[The_Core]

Also I dont use the RO anymore because I was trying to pick up cal/mag from the tap water but with tap water at 90ppm I doubt there is very much at all. I was reading I can foliar spray my plant with alg-a-mic by BioBizz and that will with the deficiency. I have the full biobizz line I am sure one of these bottles has what I need to fix the deficiency.

 

[PetFlora]

Most growers are unaware that the quality and ratios of Ca in tap water is not what we want, IF, we care about what we are growing

With good RO product water you are now in control. Scary, if you don't have a good understanding of nutrients. No problem.

I have used a lot of different nutrient lines, including where I had to mix 5 products each time. After getting a sample ~ 2 years ago, I settled on Hydroponic-Research VEG+BLOOM

It's a one part DRY formula with all the amendments needed (and in the correct ratios) to grow exceptional meds. KISS

 

[Illadelphi]

What I mean is that if you were to try to take a pH reading of pure RO (no dissolved solids) you won't get a stable read as there is nothing in it. Once you add a drop of ph up or down you are effectively raising the ppm and giving a more concrete reading.

You will definitely need to ph your feeds to the correct range. I feed every 3 waterings. So i will mix my nutes and ph it to the right range (usually 6.5-6.7). Then next two waterings I will use straight RO with no ph up or down because it will adjust to the soils ph and since the RO is a very low ppm you are not adding more salts back in, you'll be washing them out with runoff.

I have pH'd RO with 19 ppm and got a read of 6.7... Next time it reads 7.2
This is right after meter calibration. Just not enough in it to get a solid read. You add a drop or two of ph up or down and you've effectively added salts to the water and can get a better read but will add more dissolved solids to the medium.

 

[The_Core]

What I mean is that if you were to try to take a pH reading of pure RO (no dissolved solids) you won't get a stable read as there is nothing in it. Once you add a drop of ph up or down you are effectively raising the ppm and giving a more concrete reading.

You will definitely need to ph your feeds to the correct range. I feed every 3 waterings. So i will mix my nutes and ph it to the right range (usually 6.5-6.7). Then next two waterings I will use straight RO with no ph up or down because it will adjust to the soils ph and since the RO is a very low ppm you are not adding more salts back in, you'll be washing them out with runoff.

I have pH'd RO with 19 ppm and got a read of 6.7... Next time it reads 7.2
This is right after meter calibration. Just not enough in it to get a solid read. You add a drop or two of ph up or down and you've effectively added salts to the water and can get a better read but will add more dissolved solids to the medium.

Ok bro thanks I understand. Yes I always add ph up or down after I RO. I never get RO water thats the perfect PH, I always add up or down. I just mixed 7ml of Alg-a-mic in a liter of water with a few drops of superthrive and foliar sprayed my plant. I didn't PH adjust the Foliar water but who cares. Its just a foliar spray and If it fixes the mag shortage then I should be good. That shit stinks. I will check to see tomorrow if it helped the leaves or not. Thanks for the help once again.

 

[Hillbillie]

Use a LIL magnesium sulfate AKA Epsom salt .. But they look small to need anything more than a regular veg feed.

 

[The_Core]

Use a LIL magnesium sulfate AKA Epsom salt .. But they look small to need anything more than a regular veg feed.

Hey Hillbillie thanks for stopping by. I sprayed with alg-a-mic, since its not a fertilizer only a bio stimulant they said its nearly impossible to overfeed so I did 7 ML for a 1 ML. I hope it does the trick. It should from what I read. I just gave a feeding of 330 PPM of tap + biobizz. I don't think it was enough. Next feeding I am going to push 500 PPM.

 

[Illadelphi]

Good to hear brotha.. Keep us posted!

 

[Hillbillie]

Hey Hillbillie thanks for stopping by. I sprayed with alg-a-mic, since its not a fertilizer only a bio stimulant they said its nearly impossible to overfeed so I did 7 ML for a 1 ML. I hope it does the trick. It should from what I read. I just gave a feeding of 330 PPM of tap + biobizz. I don't think it was enough. Next feeding I am going to push 500 PPM.

Yea I would give about 600 ppm .. I feed rooted clones in machine 600 ppm,, . Hope u get them plants worked out ,, If not keep posted we will try to figure it out .

 

[TheCleanGame]

---snip---

 

[Illadelphi]

You're misunderstanding me. I'm telling him not to ph RO water at all. I don't use color coded drops, I have a digital ph meter and I'm saying when RO is in its original state it is essentially neutral (7) but at times the meter might say 6.7... Sometimes 7.2.

If you add a single drop or two of ph up or ph down and you are going to raise the ppm and swing the ph but it will give you the same reading every time... Most times when I feed I will add the base plus micros ph that to see how low it is. then I add ph up till it's 6.6. it will read 6.6 every time I ph it because there is enough in the water to give a solid read. So unless you are feeding DONT PH RO WATER. As soon as the Ro hits the soil it will become the soils ph. Easiest way to check your runoff ph is watering with pure RO

If you read his posts he says he was ph-ing his RO in between feeds. I was trying to explain why he shouldn't

 

[The_Core]

I will make sure to only adjust RO water when and after I add nutrients. But for now I am going to use Tap and just lower that PH. Thanks for all the input. The problem is not fixed. I think it improved but not fixed. I repotted, raised up the light a bit. Gave a watering with the 330ppm of biobizz, still no nutrient burn even after repotting in pre fertilized soil and watering with the 330ppm. Although the magnesium deficiency is not going away. Next feed I am going to blast it with 600 PPMs.

 

[The_Core]

I foliar sprayed and watered with a heavy dose of Algamic. Did not correct the problem. I Will try another foliar spray today. See what comes of it.

 

[Illadelphi]

​

The old leaves affected by the deficiency will remain yellowed but will not progress when the problem is fixed. All the new growth will look good and healthy though.

If the new growth looks good you should be ok. Looks like your baby will come out of it

 

[The_Core]

​

The old leaves affected by the deficiency will remain yellowed but will not progress when the problem is fixed. All the new growth will look good and healthy though.

If the new growth looks good you should be ok. Looks like your baby will come out of it

Thanks brother. I will give another spray and see if it straightens things out.

 

[habeeb]

I foliar sprayed and watered with a heavy dose of Algamic. Did not correct the problem. I Will try another foliar spray today. See what comes of it.

foliar spray of micros are not going to fix a Mg problem..

that problem could be caused by high / low pH .. the obvious not much Mg in the solution / media.

you need some epsom salts.

 

[TheCleanGame]

---snip---

 

[The_Core]

Looks like I am going to have to get Epson salts. I have been spraying this plant with micro's at triple the recommended dose and although the plant is damn healthy the leaves are holding strong with the mag deficiency. Of course it does not help I am in week 4 of Veg and only pushing 330 PPM to the plant. I think I need to step to 600ppm. What do you guys think?