Across International

[SkyHighLer]

Thats the one. I've never had it over shoot which is the best thing about it, it was pretty much plug n play. After having an across over shoot big time, a low temp controller was crucial......AI is offering that too now.

Knowing that only 500 watts works well with a 1.9 cubic foot oven is important, I guess getting the number, and position of the heater elements dialed in is the next step for the manufacturer's.

If you're going to boil off alcohol, I assume you'd want everything inside the chamber to be the same temperature if possible, to keep condensation from forming.

 

[Permacultuure]

I've definitely had condensation build when purging winterized oils. I haven't incorporated the marble slabs into it yet though. I just turn on the vac occasionally for now.

 

[SkyHighLer]

I have a very simple trick that might help dial in these ovens. I don't have a vacuum oven, but have decades of electronic/electrical experience, so this may seem crazy, or too difficult, or way too simple, but it will work.

The only requirement is your vacuum oven have heating elements under 600 watts each.

Your standard wall light dimmer is good for a resistive load like your heaters of up to 600 watts, so any of them will do, I suggest the cheapest SPST (single pole, single throw) you can find, I actually prefer the one's that twist on/off rather than push on/off. $5-6 at home improvement stores. Get one for each heater of your vacuum oven. Insert a wall dimmer between each heater and a lead going to it, preferably the hot lead coming from the PID controller or it's relay. Attach the green ground wire or not, the dimmer works fine without it, but if you're going to locate the dimmers permanently outside of the cabinet (advisable) interrupting the hot wire rather than the neutral, and connecting the ground is good practice.

Now you can adjust the output of each heater independently, I'd probably just find the best overall settings and leave them, but they could also be used to provide fine tuning or more progressive ramp up, etc.

Picture of how simple it is to use one of these dimmers for another purpose, they come with the (orange) wire nuts.

 

[UNREGISTRD]

Thats the one. I've never had it over shoot which is the best thing about it, it was pretty much plug n play. After having an across over shoot big time, a low temp controller was crucial......AI is offering that too now.

I think its safe to say with the new temp on the AI is only pulling about 500w as well..I have the oven and a heater and lights all on a 15amp circuit and im barely at 10amps per my meter..
My AI 1.9 Has NEVER OVERSHOT..I have the new low temp controller..And I have not messed with the settings at all..PLUG/PLAY.
The only issues I and alot of us seem to have is the heat is NOT the same from the bottom shelf to the top shelf so finding better shelves and placing some marble on the bottom Has def dialed it in for us..
That an your Ambient temp should be around 75-80deg The oven is not consistent sitting in 65deg cold air..

Im hoping by putting solid shelves in the oven will help it will help radiate the heat better so theres no hot spots at all!

 

[SkyHighLer]

I think its safe to say with the new temp on the AI is only pulling about 500w as well..I have the oven and a heater and lights all on a 15amp circuit and im barely at 10amps per my meter..
My AI 1.9 Has NEVER OVERSHOT..I have the new low temp controller..And I have not messed with the settings at all..PLUG/PLAY.
The only issues I and alot of us seem to have is the heat is NOT the same from the bottom shelf to the top shelf so finding better shelves and placing some marble on the bottom Has def dialed it in for us..
That an your Ambient temp should be around 75-80deg The oven is not consistent sitting in 65deg cold air..

Im hoping by putting solid shelves in the oven will help it will help radiate the heat better so theres no hot spots at all!

All the AI 0.9 cubic foot vacuum ovens are 1200 watts and all the AI 1.9 cubic feet vacuum ovens are 1500 watts.

From their site,

http://acrossinternational.com/Vacuum-Drying-Ovens_c18.htm

or latest ebay offerings,

"This listing is for a brand new 110 volts 50/60 Hz VO-16050m 1.9 cubic feet vacuum drying oven with chamber size of 16.5 x 14.5 x 14", manufactured by Across International.

Now with our new low proportional gain temperature controllers, designed specifically for a very steady heating rate and optimal accuracy, at temperatures as low as room temperature and as high as 480°F, with +/- 1°F accuracy, the VO-16050m series digital desktop vacuum oven features a 1.9 cubic feet easy-to-clean stainless steel chamber with a large tempered glass safety window and small bench footprint. These ovens can greatly reduce drying time by maintaining a consistent vacuum level within the chamber. Oven operation is controlled by a digital micro-controller which is used to achieve temperature precision and accuracy. Every one of our vacuum ovens goes through a 24-hour vacuum leak test and individual temperature calibration before leaving our factory.

Attention: Before initial use, run oven at 400°F without vacuum for 15 minutes to burn off any residue that may have been introduced during the manufacturing process.

Features
Best choice for the curing and converting of oil extracts. With deep vacuum level, they can operate at temperatures which allow the degassing/purging process to occur rapidly, thus increase productivity and allow for the production of superior quality products with minimal processing time.Redesigned low proportional gain temperature controller for precise low-temperature operations with +/- 1°F uniformity.
Dual layer observation window with 1/2" tempered safety glass.
3" thermal insulation prevents heat loss and minimizes surface temperature.
Easy-to-clean heavy duty 304 stainless steel interior for exceptional durability and ease of maintenance.
Force adjustable door handle and one-piece door sealing gasket maintain consistent vacuum level.
Advanced PID controls decrease heating time up to 50% compared to traditional drying ovens.
A vacuum environment lowers boiling points (great for processing heat sensitive materials) and reduces drying time for materials like paste or powder, which cannot otherwise be dried easily.
Built-in vacuum gauge, over-temperature alarm and circuit breaker.
Built-in check valve prevents vacuum oil back flow.
Re-enforced turn-lock handle that is 2x stronger than before.
All ovens shipped from our New Jersey headquarters for quick delivery and come with one year warranty and lifetime US-based parts and service support (Click here to see a list of all oven accessories).
Guaranteed US based phone and email assistance within 30 minutes from our engineers.
Optional in Hg vacuum gauge available
Optional components

Stainless steel racks and brackets (2 sets included with the oven, maximum 5)
28-segment ramp temperature controller.
Single or dual stage vacuum pumps, fume/mist filter and fittings.
Gas inlet.
Specifications

Power 110v 50/60Hz single phase
Output 1500 watts
Temperature range Ambient to 480°F
Maximum heating rate 8-15 °F/min
Temperature uniformity +/- 1°F
Dwelling timer range 1-9999 minutes
Chamber dimensions (WxDxH) 16.5 x 14.5 x 14"
Unit dimensions (WxDxH) 28 x 22 x 22"
Shipping dimensions (WxDxH) 32 x 27 x 28"
Vacuum level < 1 Torr (mmHg)
Vacuum connector 3/8" hose barb
Unit weight 140 Lb
Shipping weight 200 Lb
Racks included
2 (maximum 5, additional racks available at extra cost)

CE compliant
Yes"


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-9-Cu-Ft-L...697?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c59e17c69

The PID controller and relay don't limit current, just on time.

If anyone's interested in researching the heaters used in vacuum ovens,

http://www.omega.com/subsection/strip-heaters-all.html

Something like this?

http://www.omega.com/pptst/CSH4_Series.html

You should be able to find the same physical size/mounting holes with lower wattage.

Watts = Voltage x Amps

Put a clamp-on ammeter over a lead to a heater and find the current, my guess is a couple of 500 watt heaters are employed on the 1.9 cubic foot AI.

 

[UNREGISTRD]

Ya i understand what there site says..
IM a sparky I trust my ampmeter more than some specification page..

 

[Permacultuure]

My experience with AI's old controller is not good, thats why I went with the HS. Your stoked that she's NEVER OVERSHOT, but when it ruined a half pound of product I swore I'd never use an AI again. Yes it was user error, but it was only left unattended for minutes not hrs.
Hydrion ships from Shanghai but I've never experienced anything quicker. Order one on monday and DHL delivers is friday. I'm having a frame built to size with 3-4 shelves, this in combination with slabs should help in keeping a consistent ambient temp. Their shelves are great otherwise.....

 

[icdog]

I'm thinking of a hydrion oven 0.9cu ft. Does anyone have one and how is it?

I'm looking at one on this page
http://stores.ebay.com/Hydrion-Scie...7766017&_sid=1024401747&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

 

[SHC]

If your picky about shelves then the Across 7.2cu oven is your machine. Shelves are made of sheet metal and I think their heated for exact temp.

 

[rb extractors]

I'd avoid hydrion. I had one, thought it was great and then realized the fit and finish wasn't great, the door didn't align, the controller is less customizable compared to either of the AI controllers, it overshoots, customer service sucks because they have to ship everything from china, etc. I do love the shelves though.

If you are having issues with the AI overshooting, regardless of what controller you have, it is because you haven't changed the settings properly. ours is set to heat up slowly, so opening the door and putting stuff in or taking it out doesn't cause a ramp up of temp. if your temp ramped up a lot, you never programmed the controller properly and the mess up is on you, not AI.

 

[CannabisTHC]

If you are having issues with the AI overshooting, regardless of what controller you have, it is because you haven't changed the settings properly. ours is set to heat up slowly, so opening the door and putting stuff in or taking it out doesn't cause a ramp up of temp. if your temp ramped up a lot, you never programmed the controller properly and the mess up is on you, not AI.

I know I don't understand how people have such a hard time with this oven, I learned how to use it as soon as I got it about a year ago and haven't had any issues really. Just have to learn how the machine works. It would be nice to put a heat sink in there like a piece of marble though to keep a uniform temperature throughout but thats only if I'm using two shelves. Other than that I can get my pyrex dish to within a degree of where I want.

 

[FatherEarth]

I'd avoid hydrion. I had one, thought it was great and then realized the fit and finish wasn't great, the door didn't align, the controller is less customizable compared to either of the AI controllers, it overshoots, customer service sucks because they have to ship everything from china, etc. I do love the shelves though.

If you are having issues with the AI overshooting, regardless of what controller you have, it is because you haven't changed the settings properly. ours is set to heat up slowly, so opening the door and putting stuff in or taking it out doesn't cause a ramp up of temp. if your temp ramped up a lot, you never programmed the controller properly and the mess up is on you, not AI.

I know I don't understand how people have such a hard time with this oven, I learned how to use it as soon as I got it about a year ago and haven't had any issues really. Just have to learn how the machine works. It would be nice to put a heat sink in there like a piece of marble though to keep a uniform temperature throughout but thats only if I'm using two shelves. Other than that I can get my pyrex dish to within a degree of where I want.

exactly

 

[Hash Man]

Someone should come on and explain how they calibrated their oven properly... Instead of just mentioning it and acting superior. I have been asking about howto properly calibrate ther ovens for months... No one has posted any info on how they did it...

Also lets see some real shatter or wax from u guys who have their ovens dialed. Lots of people act like they make real shatter or honeycomb while ar the same time acting cocky about their tek or understanding of equiptment... But their shatter is really taffy or pullsnap... And their ego is the only thing requiring calibration.

I admit i am having issues witb getting Rock hard shatter with my oven. I have been asking about calibration tek for the last couple months. No one has posted anhthing that explains how to calibrate it properly.. Bret maverick and rumpwax mention it but no step bh step.

If u claim to use the ai properly i want to see clear rock hard shatter in a chunk.... Not left in a thin film on pyrex.........or a taffy.......

 

[UNREGISTRD]

Someone should come on and explain how they calibrated their oven properly... Instead of just mentioning it and acting superior. I have been asking about howto properly calibrate ther ovens for months... No one has posted any info on how they did it...

Also lets see some real shatter or wax from u guys who have their ovens dialed. Lots of people act like they make real shatter or honeycomb while ar the same time acting cocky about their tek or understanding of equiptment... But their shatter is really taffy or pullsnap... And their ego is the only thing requiring calibration.

I admit i am having issues witb getting Rock hard shatter with my oven. I have been asking about calibration tek for the last couple months. No one has posted anhthing that explains how to calibrate it properly.. Bret maverick and rumpwax mention it but no step bh step.

If u claim to use the ai properly i want to see clear rock hard shatter in a chunk.... Not left in a thin film on pyrex.........or a taffy.......

Id call AI and have them help you calibrate it. My oven came calibrated..PLUG/PLAY=SLABS
Its just getting it dialed in to perfection with some marble and better shelves..
@Hashman if you have IG theres lots of people with the AI posting slabs and chunks holding it from the bottom!

 

[CannabisTHC]

Someone should come on and explain how they calibrated their oven properly... Instead of just mentioning it and acting superior. I have been asking about howto properly calibrate ther ovens for months... No one has posted any info on how they did it...

Also lets see some real shatter or wax from u guys who have their ovens dialed. Lots of people act like they make real shatter or honeycomb while ar the same time acting cocky about their tek or understanding of equiptment... But their shatter is really taffy or pullsnap... And their ego is the only thing requiring calibration.

I admit i am having issues witb getting Rock hard shatter with my oven. I have been asking about calibration tek for the last couple months. No one has posted anhthing that explains how to calibrate it properly.. Bret maverick and rumpwax mention it but no step bh step.

If u claim to use the ai properly i want to see clear rock hard shatter in a chunk.... Not left in a thin film on pyrex.........or a taffy.......

"Mentioning it and acting superior" wow is that a dumb statement. Maybe I didn't tell you any values because I never changed the values, what a concept. I do know that there is one person (SneakySneaky) who has shared their custom values several months ago, so maybe someone needs to open their eyes and go read.

 

[Thachrizzy]

Nice thread...very informative...thanks everyone for the good info.

 

[Hash Man]

Again. Lets see some slabs of shatter. Its not hard to post on icmag. If you are posting up on icmag then put some pics up on ic mag. I dont have an instagrm account. The reason i ordered the low pid controller is cause my oven was overschooting. The only thing anyone on icmag has said was something about adjusting sc 1 or sc 2. If you aren't going to explain how u adjusted your oven then you are not being helpful... When i called ai they gave me some tips and tricks which i shared freely. So again, either post up some helpful info on how to calibrate the oven or post a pic. Icmag is not instagram...

Cannabisthc- i need to read more? Thanks bro :/ .... i have been on the forums for a long time and lurking longer still. I have been readinglol. I have an account pretty much at every website dedicated to herb. If i missed sneakysneakys post can u link it. I think i know the post u speak of but i think he just mentioned sc 1 and sc2. Also if u havent ever calibrated your oven then u are im the same boat as me before my oven started obershooting. So just cause u habent had to reset your parameters does not mean u understand the oven.

Instead of negative repping me, um, someone should post up a calibration tek.... That would be more helpful that talking about how good u are at making shatter and how obvious it is to calibrate your oven. Post up HOW u are controllong your oven .

I made this in my oven.


Having a hard time getting shatter but have been getting comb here and there. This website is here for sharing knowledge... Not talking about how you know whats up but not posting any good info or pictures..... If no one post up a calibration tek, i will call ai and post it up myself eventually...

My new low pid controller shows up monday so hopefully it plug n play like unregistered's.

Edit-To be clear, While a bit confused, I am having good results with my oven, and I know that people are making shatter with their ovens flawlwessly. Also lots of people act like they make shatter and are sitting there with a slab of taffy. Im not saying that its impossible to make shatter, I am saying that i would be willing to bet that some of you guys who are acting like you know how to control your oven are sitting there right now dabbing taffy.... while saying you have stable, TRANSPARENT, shatter....

Its funny how the guys that throw around the most negative rep are the ones that post up no tek and no pics... Way to be helpful guys... Some of the best info i have learned on icmag came from guys who dont post up anymore cause they got flamed by negative rep, and those guys are killing it in socal....making nicer product than most here even post...

All i want to see is some real advice on how to control the high temp controller on the AI...

rbextracters is the only one that posted up anything useful in this thread about parameter settings... .... I would love to hear more about that.

 

[CannabisTHC]

When I ordered my unit a year ago they said it was a new low temp controller, same thing they have been saying for a year. Well those sc1 or sc2 values are the only values I know of, didn't know there were more and apparently I don't need to know either because again I can get the temperature of my pyrex dish to within a degree of where I want. I'm not sure what else we are trying to accomplish here? If I can do this then yes I do understand my oven. Sure I haven't looked into changing the parameters but I'm not sure why I need to when I can get the pyrex dish to the exact temp I want.

Here maybe this will help, when using your oven if you preheat the oven make sure and keep the oven switch on. Because if you turn the switch off I have noticed it will overshoot as if its been reset and trying to set a temperature after its already warm just doesn't work. The trick is to warm the oven up under vacuum then while the unit is still on release the vacuum and put your pyrex dish in then revacuum without ever turning the unit off. If you understand temp PID controllers you'll understand that the reason it overshoots is because its trying to reach the temperature quicker. If you don't want the PID overshooting then adjust it to heat up slower. It came with an instruction manual that tells you how to do this, again I haven't done this so you'll have to look how. This is the way temp PID's generally function at first unless you program them to reach a temperature slower which will cause the overshoot to be less.

 

[Hash Man]

When I ordered my unit a year ago they said it was a new low temp controller, same thing they have been saying for a year. Well those sc1 or sc2 values are the only values I know of, didn't know there were more and apparently I don't need to know either because again I can get the temperature of my pyrex dish to within a degree of where I want. I'm not sure what else we are trying to accomplish here? If I can do this then yes I do understand my oven. Sure I haven't looked into changing the parameters but I'm not sure why I need to when I can get the pyrex dish to the exact temp I want.

Here maybe this will help, when using your oven if you preheat the oven make sure and keep the oven switch on. Because if you turn the switch off I have noticed it will overshoot as if its been reset and trying to set a temperature after its already warm just doesn't work. The trick is to warm the oven up under vacuum then while the unit is still on release the vacuum and put your pyrex dish in then revacuum without ever turning the unit off. If you understand temp PID controllers you'll understand that the reason it overshoots is because its trying to reach the temperature quicker. If you don't want the PID overshooting then adjust it to heat up slower. It came with an instruction manual that tells you how to do this, again I haven't done this so you'll have to look how. This is the way temp PID's generally function at first unless you program them to reach a temperature slower which will cause the overshoot to be less.

Good bit of info there. My oven was made on march 2013. What does yours say? They were upfont about mine having a high pid controller, and i guess thats why they are sending me a new low pid controller for free. My oven was acting just like yours for quite awhile but lately its been way off... I put a thermometer in there to find out what was really going on...

The temp overshoots seem to be more of an issue with the digital readout, rather than the actual oven temp. Lately i have noticed my oven is always 20 degrees under what the digital readout says... And this bothered me becasue rumpwax and bret maverick have their high pid controllers set to where the oven is actually reading the internal temp correctly.

This is where my whole confusion lies. I know what the temp is inside the oven and i notice huge discrepencies in the actual temp vs the digital temp....

Have you seen the equation on the AI manual? Its the one i have been tryin to figure out and cant understand....

offset value =(differential value x measuring range of gauge)/target temperature

 

[FatherEarth]

Call AI on the phone and they will walk you through the process.

Ill make a batch just for you hashman, and Ill be sure to properly document its rock hard state when I do.

I love it when people demand 'pic proof or it didnt happen.'

I got tired of taking pics of oil... after youve seen a dozen batches of shatter they all start to look the same, lol.

Lots of Love HashMan, Dab something and lighten up a lil bro. Ask and you shall receive

If you want I can call AI and write down the calibration info and post it...



Respectfully,

FE