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Soil or Hydroponics?
- Thread starter leaffan
- Start date
7 days apart
7 days apart
same med-man tables
7 days difference
roots need oxygen more then anything in fact
these shots prove it. if hydro plants have 10x the roots mass, then there is 10x more activity.
you will need a microscope to show microscopic activity in the roots. all you did was take a pic of some roots in soil.
it is possible to grow organically in water cultures. but it seems like your heads are too buried in the soil to actually see there are multiple otpions to getting the best of both worlds. and we are talking about a carbon molecule. nute salts come from rocks, so whatevs
and spare me the hypocritical speech on organics. do you drive cars, eat organic, or meat or packaged food, gmo's, throw out garbage etc, exactly
1 organic plant is not changing the world too much. hydro uses less nutes overall, anbd has less waste. if you have ever tried it,or been successful, you would know that for a fact
med-man
7 days apart
same med-man tables
7 days difference
roots need oxygen more then anything in fact
these shots prove it. if hydro plants have 10x the roots mass, then there is 10x more activity.
you will need a microscope to show microscopic activity in the roots. all you did was take a pic of some roots in soil.
it is possible to grow organically in water cultures. but it seems like your heads are too buried in the soil to actually see there are multiple otpions to getting the best of both worlds. and we are talking about a carbon molecule. nute salts come from rocks, so whatevs
and spare me the hypocritical speech on organics. do you drive cars, eat organic, or meat or packaged food, gmo's, throw out garbage etc, exactly
1 organic plant is not changing the world too much. hydro uses less nutes overall, anbd has less waste. if you have ever tried it,or been successful, you would know that for a fact
med-man
Attachments
And actually Med-Man - what I showed in that picture is the result of how roots grow when they are highly colonized...You don't get the long, wispy, web of feeder roots without high colonization. Instead, you get the short, stubby feeder roots as seen in your pictures....
-FALSE-
Funny, I thought the one thing they needed "more than anything" was....WATER.
Fact.
Actually...no. Simple organic chemistry.
We are talking about molecules that have carbon - hydrogen bonds, as this is what defines an organic molecule.
An inorganic molecule is defined as any molecule that lacks carbon AND hydrogen atoms.
Never once did I take the conversation that direction. I have simply shown how science has proven that organic soil methods produce healthier plants than their chemical feed counterparts.
Your comment was obviously made out of spite and is rather petty. How about we just focus on the scientific data and resort from using the word "fact" as a diatribe.
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Too bad people can't smell and taste the difference over the internet...
I never said you can't grow good LOOKING plants with hydro...I used to; I was very successful with hydroponics...
But rather than settle for success, I decided I wanted to produce the best. The preponderance of scientific data clearly shows that organic soil produces a better quality, healthier, more sustainable end result than ANY chemical ever has.
That isn't even refutable...You can cling to your opinion all day long - and I'll subscribe to the evidence and research presented by scientists all over the world.
How is there less waste? How does it use less nutrients?
So you are saying, while yet the plant gets so much bigger, faster - it some how magically requires less nutrition to sustain itself?
Please if you will, attempt to quantify this statement...
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I've had more people argue their methods than I can count - and as soon as they've sampled my flowers - immediately start asking me how I grow and what they need to do different to get their flowers to smell and taste as complex as mine...
If my goal was to make money, rather than grow the best, I'd be right there with you Med-Man banging out that beast, showing the world my kool-aid stained pink roots...
dank.Frank
-FALSE-
Funny, I thought the one thing they needed "more than anything" was....WATER.
Fact.
Actually...no. Simple organic chemistry.
We are talking about molecules that have carbon - hydrogen bonds, as this is what defines an organic molecule.
An inorganic molecule is defined as any molecule that lacks carbon AND hydrogen atoms.
Never once did I take the conversation that direction. I have simply shown how science has proven that organic soil methods produce healthier plants than their chemical feed counterparts.
Your comment was obviously made out of spite and is rather petty. How about we just focus on the scientific data and resort from using the word "fact" as a diatribe.
------
Too bad people can't smell and taste the difference over the internet...
I never said you can't grow good LOOKING plants with hydro...I used to; I was very successful with hydroponics...
But rather than settle for success, I decided I wanted to produce the best. The preponderance of scientific data clearly shows that organic soil produces a better quality, healthier, more sustainable end result than ANY chemical ever has.
That isn't even refutable...You can cling to your opinion all day long - and I'll subscribe to the evidence and research presented by scientists all over the world.
How is there less waste? How does it use less nutrients?
So you are saying, while yet the plant gets so much bigger, faster - it some how magically requires less nutrition to sustain itself?
Please if you will, attempt to quantify this statement...
------
I've had more people argue their methods than I can count - and as soon as they've sampled my flowers - immediately start asking me how I grow and what they need to do different to get their flowers to smell and taste as complex as mine...
If my goal was to make money, rather than grow the best, I'd be right there with you Med-Man banging out that beast, showing the world my kool-aid stained pink roots...
dank.Frank
Are the plants that those strawberry liquorish roots belong to the ones grown on the tables you built in IC5??
They look fairly sad in Ic5 and unhappy and by the looks of things a little nutrient burned.
Show me a plant 10x better looking and in much greater health than Frank is showing Med-Man if you can.
dank.Frank
these roots?
nute burned lol
okay haha
its funny you guys dont realize i always was and still am an organic grower. i just should less costs, quality and yield over over more labor and overhead
med-man
ps i will post up the rock wool pics tonight as they are from my next batch of cuttings
nute burned lol
okay haha
its funny you guys dont realize i always was and still am an organic grower. i just should less costs, quality and yield over over more labor and overhead
med-man
ps i will post up the rock wool pics tonight as they are from my next batch of cuttings
Attachments
Interesting talk about heavy metals. I would love to see what is passing and failing the tests. It makes sense to me that it would be easier to give a plant exactly what it needs and no extra heavy metals with hydro. Maybe organic is like McDonald's. Looks, smells and tastes great but maybe its full of things we don't want.
fwiw - As long as we keep the posts and jabs in a manner that ISN'T truly personal - because my intent really isn't to belittle. I'm posting up facts and just sharing information that might be relevant to the OP figuring out the direction he wants to go...
Your hydro roots look good - and a picture is really just a picture. No one is really going to come to any sort of conclusion as to who grows the best flowers...not without blazing down...
So, that's why I lead with documented scientific study and facts - which my growing philosophy is based around and formulated upon...because ultimately isn't MY opinion that is being expressed, but that of proven science. It really isn't objective - it's just actual FACT. Not opinion substasiated by my personal experiences and therefore being called such - but literally, actual, scientific fact. That's what I've shared.
NO disrespect meant in all this - but, I think that little meme - alreayd shows anything you could possibly post up, and why it will be so - and anything I could really contribute at this point, has been posted.
With that in mind - I would like to see you continue posting and supporting your opinion; Med-man - it can't hurt anything to give the OP a well rounded presentation...
Good vibes.
dank.Frank
Your hydro roots look good - and a picture is really just a picture. No one is really going to come to any sort of conclusion as to who grows the best flowers...not without blazing down...
So, that's why I lead with documented scientific study and facts - which my growing philosophy is based around and formulated upon...because ultimately isn't MY opinion that is being expressed, but that of proven science. It really isn't objective - it's just actual FACT. Not opinion substasiated by my personal experiences and therefore being called such - but literally, actual, scientific fact. That's what I've shared.
NO disrespect meant in all this - but, I think that little meme - alreayd shows anything you could possibly post up, and why it will be so - and anything I could really contribute at this point, has been posted.
With that in mind - I would like to see you continue posting and supporting your opinion; Med-man - it can't hurt anything to give the OP a well rounded presentation...
Good vibes.
dank.Frank
Yes an introduction to the heavy metal issues in soil can be found here...
http://www.hindawi.com/isrn/ecology/2011/402647/
Peace
http://www.hindawi.com/isrn/ecology/2011/402647/
Peace
wouldn't just a normal flush for 2 weeks get most of the heavy metals out? as long as ur flushing with RO water than I believe you shouldn't run into any problems (just a guess tho)
I just don't understand why there is such a thing as medical marijuana when there is no such thing as medical camomile? I just find it all non sense and we should be able to produce our own medicine like we use to a century ago. also pharmacy's can only give you pills which we don't know what's in it and half the time there is warning signs that include at least 5 serious problems if you take the pill, I know with plants and all that there is still warnings and what not but I would feel more comfortable if we could all grow 6 plants or what ever and be able to have a choice weather we want artificial drugs or natural ones that can be grown or prescribed by our local doctor. I just really think if cannabis was legal the amount of crime will fall and things would be a better place
(sorry for the rant)
I just don't understand why there is such a thing as medical marijuana when there is no such thing as medical camomile? I just find it all non sense and we should be able to produce our own medicine like we use to a century ago. also pharmacy's can only give you pills which we don't know what's in it and half the time there is warning signs that include at least 5 serious problems if you take the pill, I know with plants and all that there is still warnings and what not but I would feel more comfortable if we could all grow 6 plants or what ever and be able to have a choice weather we want artificial drugs or natural ones that can be grown or prescribed by our local doctor. I just really think if cannabis was legal the amount of crime will fall and things would be a better place
(sorry for the rant)
E
Eureka Springs Organics
Interesting thread. I have tried to stay away, but it is pulling me in like DD's on a 20 something bar tender. "Look at her face. Look at her face." 
One of the points from earlier in the thread was heavy metals. Read up on remediation. The hydro guys won't speak of this because it means to "withhold" certain chemicals, toxins, and heavy metals. That's hard to do when you are using chemicals to grow with.
Humic acid, and compost tea is the answer. Combined they will help to remediate any heavy metals, toxins, etc.. There are many studies that have tested this very thing.
With soil beds you will not have to "haul" in new dirt like others have said. You can use the same soil for years upon years. All you have to do is top dress some new amendments, and or you can mix them in if you don't feel the need to no-til.
With the proper soil tests you can have optimal soil with every run, and in my opinion a far superior end product.
The hydro vs. organic argument typically has two sides.
One side that thinks about what they put into their body, and the quality of the end product.
The other side does not question putting chemicals into their body, they are concerned with yields(which equal profit), and they don't think about the long term health effects of someone using their chemical laden products.
Wonder which side I am on.
One of the points from earlier in the thread was heavy metals. Read up on remediation. The hydro guys won't speak of this because it means to "withhold" certain chemicals, toxins, and heavy metals. That's hard to do when you are using chemicals to grow with.
Humic acid, and compost tea is the answer. Combined they will help to remediate any heavy metals, toxins, etc.. There are many studies that have tested this very thing.
With soil beds you will not have to "haul" in new dirt like others have said. You can use the same soil for years upon years. All you have to do is top dress some new amendments, and or you can mix them in if you don't feel the need to no-til.
With the proper soil tests you can have optimal soil with every run, and in my opinion a far superior end product.
The hydro vs. organic argument typically has two sides.
One side that thinks about what they put into their body, and the quality of the end product.
The other side does not question putting chemicals into their body, they are concerned with yields(which equal profit), and they don't think about the long term health effects of someone using their chemical laden products.
Wonder which side I am on.
that would be the reasonable assumption but to simplify it the plant doesn't metabolize heavy metals they just accumulate in the plant tissue
leaffan
Member
Thanks everyone for participating. It really is great information. Too many to thank individually, but for sure I have say to frank.dank and med-man Thank You. It would be so easy of you to dismiss and ignore my inquiry.
I've never looked into organic growing. I'm not sure if it is viable (batch testing) under the MMPR, but it certainly has been an eye opener.
Here is another link on heavy metals
http://www.manicbotanix.com/hydroponic-grow-guide/contaminants-in-cannabis-.html
Jezzz...I hope that link is allowed. If not please delete or edit. I'm not trying to endorse anyone or anything.
I've never looked into organic growing. I'm not sure if it is viable (batch testing) under the MMPR, but it certainly has been an eye opener.
Here is another link on heavy metals
http://www.manicbotanix.com/hydroponic-grow-guide/contaminants-in-cannabis-.html
Jezzz...I hope that link is allowed. If not please delete or edit. I'm not trying to endorse anyone or anything.
No problem at all Leaf - it's what the site is here for and I'm glad to be of what ever assitence I can if and when I feel I can actually contribute something of value to the discussion.
Hope you get it figured out and best wishes and much success in whatever you decide...
dank.Frank
Hope you get it figured out and best wishes and much success in whatever you decide...
dank.Frank
The hydro vs. organic argument typically has two sides.
One side that thinks about what they put into their body, and the quality of the end product.
The other side does not question putting chemicals into their body, they are concerned with yields(which equal profit), and they don't think about the long term health effects of someone using their chemical laden products.
Wonder which side I am on.
I think thats being a little unfair. In an ideal world chemical ferts can give a plant 100% of what it needs without giving it anything extra. This would be a next to impossible task with organics. I'm of the opinion that organic buds smell and taste the best and get you higher but I've yet to see proof of what is "cleaner".
