What's actually in it?
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First Timer: 12 Light Coco Multi-feed
- Thread starter RB26
- Start date
What's actually in it?
Its your grow OVO .... but personally , i wouldn't be adding all kinds of things i've never used before on the word of others . ( nothing bad meant towards anyone !!! Had to throw that in there so ya'll know ) if you want to try new things thats great ! i do it myself ...... BUT , i would take 1 additive at a time & add it to a base nute that you know works well & how it performs all by itself before adding any one thing to it .
take that base nute & try 1 additive at a time per flower cycle . if you like the way it works .... keep it in your line up & next run .... try another additive . you go adding all kinds of shit in at once & things go haywire ..... which one caused the problems ???? see what i'm getting at ???
keep it simple brutha & you'll have alot less problems & alot less to figure out if shit does go wrong . dig it ???
If it were me ...... i'd be using the V&B on 1 tray all by itself & another tray with your PBP regiment & add either bloomtastic or canna boost ..... not both on the same run . try 1 first .... see how ya like it .... if you do & it works great ..... keep it & next run add another .
You are just starting out in coco & theres alot to know about how to keep the coco Happy & keep the balances in check . i would concentrate on that before i'd go adding all kinds of boosters & bud builders . your jumping in head first & god know what kinds of things could & can happen without having the knowledge there to correct any of those problems .
i learned ALOT from a guy here Called Snowcrash . i have a thread here that he contributes a great deal of information about coco & what it needs & when . i think you should read through it & soak up some of his knowledge before you go getting ahead of yourself .
theres alot of stupid questions that i asked & he was more tha happy to explain in detail ... check it out . i come off as a moron in some areas .... because i was a moron about it ... untill he set me straight .
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=218226
Good luck dude ! i wish you great harvests of fat assed buds
i learned ALOT from a guy here Called Snowcrash . i have a thread here that he contributes a great deal of information about coco & what it needs & when . i think you should read through it & soak up some of his knowledge before you go getting ahead of yourself .
theres alot of stupid questions that i asked & he was more tha happy to explain in detail ... check it out . i come off as a moron in some areas .... because i was a moron about it ... untill he set me straight .
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=218226
Good luck dude ! i wish you great harvests of fat assed buds
I agree with what you say in the post before last dans, with regards to adding in lots of additives etc. But I've read that link you posted and I have got to say, I would not recommend following that advice. It's the exact opposite of keeping it simple and a lot of the information put forward in that thread, although it `sounds` like expert advice, there's a lot I strongly disagree with.
With any balanced food you will never see an imbalance of individual elements unless you are overfeeding. Concentrating on individual elements is what has gone wrong in this culture over recent years. It's why the sales of calmag - a product you should rarely, if ever, need to use - have gone through the roof.
You should also never be following bottle guide amounts in coco or any hydro medium. That's what your EC pen is for. It's really that simple. EC is a measure of conductivity. Once you know the NPK ratio of your salt-based feed, you only ever need to know the EC you're bringing your water to, from that point. No matter what brand of nutrients you use. I've used Gen`Hydro, plant magic, Hesi, Formulex, Canna, Ionic, I've used levington's tomato feed, I've used tomorite.... Every single one of them is the same.
And feeding 2ml of calmag combined with rhizotonic, and leaving your base feed until they've got 4 sets of leaves is just plain bad advice. That might get the plant by, based only on the fact that a young cannabis plant is not demanding of a large amount of nutes, but make no mistake, that's all you are doing - getting away with a bad practice. The amount of nitrogen in the cal mag is the only thing preventing that procedure from having snowcrash himself in the sick plant section wondering what's wrong with his plants. But for that, there would be nothing on which the plant could survive.
Start a plant in coco on 1.0ec of starter feed. If you haven't got that, start it on 1.0ec of base nutes.
Feeding til 40% run through with every watering is, again, just plain wrong advice. There is no conceivable need for such a huge amount of wasted nutrients. Raised bed gardens, hempy buckets, autopots... they all do fantastically well time after time, never once failing in the hands of a competent grower. That alone is cast iron proof that the theory that plants grown in coco need huge amounts of run off is a total myth. The sooner people let go of it the better. Plants in 20L containers might take 6L or more before they're fully saturated. 40% of 6L is 2.5L... 2.5L x 10 plants is 25 liters of run off... with every feed...? 100L of wasted nutrients over just 4 feeds? That's terrible practice imo.
Lastly, alternating between a company-suggested full strength amount, and a half strength amount is, at best, counter-intuitive. Feed a sensible amount, and feed it regularly. Give plain water now and then if you want. Simple as that.
Anyone who is having problems is most likely complicating the simplest of procedures.
With any balanced food you will never see an imbalance of individual elements unless you are overfeeding. Concentrating on individual elements is what has gone wrong in this culture over recent years. It's why the sales of calmag - a product you should rarely, if ever, need to use - have gone through the roof.
You should also never be following bottle guide amounts in coco or any hydro medium. That's what your EC pen is for. It's really that simple. EC is a measure of conductivity. Once you know the NPK ratio of your salt-based feed, you only ever need to know the EC you're bringing your water to, from that point. No matter what brand of nutrients you use. I've used Gen`Hydro, plant magic, Hesi, Formulex, Canna, Ionic, I've used levington's tomato feed, I've used tomorite.... Every single one of them is the same.
And feeding 2ml of calmag combined with rhizotonic, and leaving your base feed until they've got 4 sets of leaves is just plain bad advice. That might get the plant by, based only on the fact that a young cannabis plant is not demanding of a large amount of nutes, but make no mistake, that's all you are doing - getting away with a bad practice. The amount of nitrogen in the cal mag is the only thing preventing that procedure from having snowcrash himself in the sick plant section wondering what's wrong with his plants. But for that, there would be nothing on which the plant could survive.
Start a plant in coco on 1.0ec of starter feed. If you haven't got that, start it on 1.0ec of base nutes.
Feeding til 40% run through with every watering is, again, just plain wrong advice. There is no conceivable need for such a huge amount of wasted nutrients. Raised bed gardens, hempy buckets, autopots... they all do fantastically well time after time, never once failing in the hands of a competent grower. That alone is cast iron proof that the theory that plants grown in coco need huge amounts of run off is a total myth. The sooner people let go of it the better. Plants in 20L containers might take 6L or more before they're fully saturated. 40% of 6L is 2.5L... 2.5L x 10 plants is 25 liters of run off... with every feed...? 100L of wasted nutrients over just 4 feeds? That's terrible practice imo.
Lastly, alternating between a company-suggested full strength amount, and a half strength amount is, at best, counter-intuitive. Feed a sensible amount, and feed it regularly. Give plain water now and then if you want. Simple as that.
Anyone who is having problems is most likely complicating the simplest of procedures.
There actually isn't much to know at all, dans.
There's much more to composting, and fully organic growing, than there is growing in coco and feeding chemical nutes. This is plug and play shit my friend and the sooner people realise that the better for their grows.
papa, dans, and retro,
Thanks for all the good advice, I really appreciate it all. I also appreciate everyone keeping it really respectful
Secondly, on this current run, I will be utilizing my standard regiment with a couple possible tweaks. When I said I'd try the V&B with some additives, I just meant on my tester tent I have going. Let me paint a clearer picture of what's going on, as I have referenced a lot of different projects:
#1: Main setup: Botanicare Base (PBP, CAMG, Silica Blast, Aquashield) and Agricultural Organics (Yellow Bottle) Additives (Pre, Ultra, Phat, Final).
#2: Veg space: Purely V&B Dirty, Roots Excel, Great White
#3: Tester Tent: 4x8" with 1000W Hortilux Blue. Strains: Banana Kush and GSC. Half will be getting V&B RO straight, no additives. The other half will get V&B RO with Bloombastic and Canna Boost.
Thanks for all the good advice, I really appreciate it all. I also appreciate everyone keeping it really respectful
Secondly, on this current run, I will be utilizing my standard regiment with a couple possible tweaks. When I said I'd try the V&B with some additives, I just meant on my tester tent I have going. Let me paint a clearer picture of what's going on, as I have referenced a lot of different projects:
#1: Main setup: Botanicare Base (PBP, CAMG, Silica Blast, Aquashield) and Agricultural Organics (Yellow Bottle) Additives (Pre, Ultra, Phat, Final).
#2: Veg space: Purely V&B Dirty, Roots Excel, Great White
#3: Tester Tent: 4x8" with 1000W Hortilux Blue. Strains: Banana Kush and GSC. Half will be getting V&B RO straight, no additives. The other half will get V&B RO with Bloombastic and Canna Boost.
I have to disagree ... there is alot to know about coco when coming from soil or hydro grows to coco for the first time . thats why i linked that thread . not so he could follow Snows feeding recomendations ..... but so he can get an understanding of what coco has & needs to keep a balance .
i should have marked the sections of the thread i was refering to .... but damn thats alot of work .
I've got to say dans, with all due respect, the only things you really need in order to keep your coco in balance, so to speak, are properly buffered coco and properly balanced ferts.
I've been saying for a long time now that coco is in many ways easier than soil. There's not as much variability from batch to batch from what I've found, and the actual watering is so much easier because coco does not become hydrophobic when it's dry. You also don't have to rely so much on reading your plants at first, and using ml per L guides as reference. The ec pen takes away so much of the guesswork. It's straight forward.
The whole cation exchange/calmag/potassium release thing... it's the misapplication of knowledge and facts. Yes, coco can come with excessive amount of potassium, which will release gradually with every watering, but not one which has been properly washed and buffered. And yes, coco will lock and hold onto certain elements, but again, not one that's been properly washed, buffered, and expanded.
I believe a lot of these theories and beliefs come from a time when coco as a medium was quite a new thing and a lot of it was not up to today's standards. People are still living by those rules now, regardless of how much the coco market has changed over the past decade.
The option is there to buy good quality coco and good quality coco nutrients. Once you've got those two things, growing in coco is no more complex than growing in soil.
I've been saying for a long time now that coco is in many ways easier than soil. There's not as much variability from batch to batch from what I've found, and the actual watering is so much easier because coco does not become hydrophobic when it's dry. You also don't have to rely so much on reading your plants at first, and using ml per L guides as reference. The ec pen takes away so much of the guesswork. It's straight forward.
The whole cation exchange/calmag/potassium release thing... it's the misapplication of knowledge and facts. Yes, coco can come with excessive amount of potassium, which will release gradually with every watering, but not one which has been properly washed and buffered. And yes, coco will lock and hold onto certain elements, but again, not one that's been properly washed, buffered, and expanded.
I believe a lot of these theories and beliefs come from a time when coco as a medium was quite a new thing and a lot of it was not up to today's standards. People are still living by those rules now, regardless of how much the coco market has changed over the past decade.
The option is there to buy good quality coco and good quality coco nutrients. Once you've got those two things, growing in coco is no more complex than growing in soil.
Papa,
When you say it takes away much of the guesswork, are you referring to the fact that you just add your base until you reach your desired EC? For reference, what is your EC schedule like, particularly in seedling/veg?
That's it.
I use a starter feed called formulex at an ec of 1.0 for seedlings. Plain water to pop the shell, then once they've sprouted two tiny leaves, formulex. They can stay on that through most if not all of the veg period. My tap water of 0.2 is included in that btw.
I use a starter feed called formulex at an ec of 1.0 for seedlings. Plain water to pop the shell, then once they've sprouted two tiny leaves, formulex. They can stay on that through most if not all of the veg period. My tap water of 0.2 is included in that btw.
Tony Montana
Member
Got to say Pap is bang on the money for me
Nice setup you have there IC OVO, I can only dream of 12000w lol
Nice setup you have there IC OVO, I can only dream of 12000w lol
Here's some pictures.
This is on 1.0ec formulex
This is her 8 days later
This is 12 days later
These kind of growth rates aren't a result of my knowledge of every element on the periodic table, or use of any booster or enzyme or beneficial microbes... know what I mean?
This is cannabis, and this is coco... it's a weed... in a porous airy medium... fed a a custom built nutrient with every mineral known to be involved in plant growth... naturally, it kills shit and grows like wildfire... I'm tryin to emphasise the simplicity of it, you know?
I'm a strong advocate of simplicity for the reasons posted above. That's the growth rate in plain coco and on formulex... there's nothing else added. If you get better results than that because of one stimulator or booster or thousand dollar nutrient regime etc, by all means go for it. But I'm looking round the internet and I'm not seeing it.
Every piece of evidence points towards the fact that once you get a good quality coco and feed good quality base nutes at the right amount, there's not much more you can do to boost the growth than that, and anything you do do to alter or try to boost that - except for environmental upgrades obviously - is more likely to have a negative than positive effect base only on the complication of your routine.
This is on 1.0ec formulex
This is her 8 days later
This is 12 days later
These kind of growth rates aren't a result of my knowledge of every element on the periodic table, or use of any booster or enzyme or beneficial microbes... know what I mean?
This is cannabis, and this is coco... it's a weed... in a porous airy medium... fed a a custom built nutrient with every mineral known to be involved in plant growth... naturally, it kills shit and grows like wildfire... I'm tryin to emphasise the simplicity of it, you know?
I'm a strong advocate of simplicity for the reasons posted above. That's the growth rate in plain coco and on formulex... there's nothing else added. If you get better results than that because of one stimulator or booster or thousand dollar nutrient regime etc, by all means go for it. But I'm looking round the internet and I'm not seeing it.
Every piece of evidence points towards the fact that once you get a good quality coco and feed good quality base nutes at the right amount, there's not much more you can do to boost the growth than that, and anything you do do to alter or try to boost that - except for environmental upgrades obviously - is more likely to have a negative than positive effect base only on the complication of your routine.
Cool, thanks for the info I'll check it out.
But thats what i'm trying to get at . all coco is not buffered right off the bat & not all nutrients are suitable to just straight feed to coco .
i agree with this & you completely !!! but like i said ... all coco is not ready to use right out of the bag or from expanded brick . & thats why alot of people / newbies to coco have alot to learn about it . i knew nothing about coco or the cations when i started with it & didn't know which coco was good to use right away or which brand had to be flushed & prepped .
this is all i'm saying dude . your acting like anybody can just pick up a bag of coco throw some plants in it & feed away with little or no problems without knowing those aspects of it ..... & thats just not true .
yes .... once you know about coco & the nutes specified for coco use .... its a freakin piece of cake to grow in coco !!! the easiest & best producing method of growing i've ever used & i don't see me changing from it anytime too soon .
but i want to make sure new coco growers know what they're getting into without going at it blindly ! whew that was alot of typing !!! i need to get baked
never heard of formulex either ... but yeah cannastart is great for seedlings & young clones .
Have to disagree with that, Dan. Bloombastic & Boost are entirely different products, doing different things, and they do not conflict with one another. One is a bloom booster, to be used only in middle to late flower (Bloombastic), and the other is Canna's version of Triacontanol, which is a growth hormone which should be used throughout the grow, from beginning to end. There is no problem using both together. In fact, I wouldn't do it any other way, having used both together and getting my personal best results doing so.
Also, keep in mind that he has a very large room, and a tent, and will be doing side by sides, testing various products on different plants. With that many plants, there is plenty of room for experimenting to a point. He could try the Bloombastic & Tria on, say, 10 plants and not on the others. I guarantee that the ones with Tria & Bloombastic will outperform those without, and trichome production with Bloombastic will be significantly greater. Read the Bloombastic thread before passing judgement. Krunchbubble did a side by side with & without Bloombastic, and he was getting twice the oil from Bloombastic treated plants. Many others who have tried it swear by it. I do too. Have never gotten trichomes like I did after trying it. It really works. Just keep the EC in check, and there will be no problems.
I understand that retro .... but like i said .... if he has a problem & has to narrow it down .... he has 2 things that could have caused it instead of 1 . thats all .... never said they were going to conflict .
thats why i recomend trying 1 additive at a time . in case theres a problem .... its easier to narrow it down if you only changed 1 thing in your feed regiment at a time .
jesus ... is there anything else i've said that you guys want to tear down ???
thats why i recomend trying 1 additive at a time . in case theres a problem .... its easier to narrow it down if you only changed 1 thing in your feed regiment at a time .
jesus ... is there anything else i've said that you guys want to tear down ???
Caravaggio
Member
Its your grow OVO .... but personally , i wouldn't be adding all kinds of things i've never used before on the word of others . ( nothing bad meant towards anyone !!! Had to throw that in there so ya'll know ) if you want to try new things thats great ! i do it myself ...... BUT , i would take 1 additive at a time & add it to a base nute that you know works well & how it performs all by itself before adding any one thing to it .
take that base nute & try 1 additive at a time per flower cycle . if you like the way it works .... keep it in your line up & next run .... try another additive . you go adding all kinds of shit in at once & things go haywire ..... which one caused the problems ???? see what i'm getting at ???
keep it simple brutha & you'll have alot less problems & alot less to figure out if shit does go wrong . dig it ???
If it were me ...... i'd be using the V&B on 1 tray all by itself & another tray with your PBP regiment & add either bloomtastic or canna boost ..... not both on the same run . try 1 first .... see how ya like it .... if you do & it works great ..... keep it & next run add another .
This is extremely solid advice. Go with it.
Except for the use of Veg + Bloom. Utter shit.
Normally, I would agree if dealing with unknowns. But in this case, the Tria is used from the beginning in veg, and the Bloombastic is used only @ the end. Neither of these ingredients are known to cause problems. I have used both in all my grows without incident, except increased yield and trichome production. Many others have confirmed this, so I don't think any phantom problems will pop up. These are added at different times in the grow, not together. It's not a question of dumping a bunch of things in there and then wondering which one had an effect. They are used at entirely different times, and for different purposes. There is nothing redundant or conflicting about them. They are both safe, tried, and true. They work.
Here's a couple of quotes from Krunchbubble from the Bloombastic thread:
"i got some trim from my boy's grow to make butane oil, he used an sensi a@b with bloombastic. the YIELD with this trim was 9.5 grams per tube, ALMOST DOUBLE what the norm is at 5 grams a tube. done this strain(og kush/gdp) many times in my tubes and this time, WOW! no pics since is was not my garden."
"in my group of growers, we do side by side comparison of products with every single grow we do. this was the first time we ran bloombastic. we did a side by side comparison to dark energy. absolutely everything in both rooms were identical except for the bloombastic and dark energy. the bloombastic room yielded twice then the dark energy in butane extraction amount ".
The increased oil is from massive trichome production.
Your buddy from the GG thread, Joesy Whales, also swears by it. There is nothing risky about it. Just don't use too much, as with all nutrients. I wouldn't post this if I had not already tried it. Give that thread a read to see what others say. I would not recommend something if there was a chance it would cause problems, or if I hadn't yet used it.
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