Colorado Growers Thread

[Avinash.miles]

I do understand your points. Your last post was very articulate, and concise. I agree that most stores are not making a ton of money. I have seen this first hand. Most are making a living at best. I was not aware that with the new rules the stores were still counting plants from med patients. So once the go rec. they still can only grow the number of plants based off of patient sign up?

So you have 300 patients signed up, but you also went rec. you can only grow 1800 plants?

while still supplying your 300 patients with the meds they need. Without running out so that those 300 people keep you on as caregiver.... no patients no plant count.
this is where we reach the edge of my familiarity with the current legislation. Im not sure HOW plant counts will be figured under rec. and have not read anything in the new rules concerning such... yet.


as ricky from trailer park boys would say "It's supply and command".

not only of product but also of places to legally grow in a LARGE industrial style... lots of warehouses already been scooped up for medical game, dispensaries nd private caregivers both. Many counties have said NO to big grows all together...
suffice to say that real estate is yet another hurdle.

plant count increases in the exchange from med to rec are still a grey area... if not legally, at least in my realm of knowledge, LOL

dunno how inventory taxes will work with cannabis, could end up taxing product for sitting around and "curing"... lets just say that not all of the new rules favor quality in the end product.

 

[Eureka Springs Organics]

So as Rec. goes along are there plans to not tie the med patients plant count to rec. users? If you are in BFE on the border, and you have 100 patients, but you have a line out the door daily for people wanting rec. you would be screwed.

As more people don't renew because they don't have to the stores are going to be losing plant counts. Has this problem been addressed?

 

[Jhhnn]

y'all have to remember that re-licensing from medical to recreationsal costs MONEY and not just a lil bit.... the dispensary game is VERY high competition right now, with prices been dropping it's hard for many dispanearies to get in the rec. game.... they are lucky to be still open at all, let alone stepping up their game to go recreational AS SOON AS REC STARTS....

also
a full understanding of the nature of vertical integration makes things rather clear.....

ANYONE with a medical licesnse gets first crack at getting the rec licesnses untill 2016....
that means NOONE can get a chance to get a rec lisence untill after 2016.... UNLESS they had a medical lisence BEFORE jan 1 2014.

does that clear things up a lil bit?

Agreed, particularly about the steep entry fees into the retail market. It very much favors the big players while easing the regulatory burden on the State. As if there really needs to be much of a regulatory burden, but they'll make it as big as they can, because of the children, because they can.

Mass marketing on the retail level is a whole different deal than what we have now. The objective isn't to offer boutique buds of ever changing character, but to create a potent, flavorful & consistent product where brand loyalty comes into play, same as with cigarettes, beer & wine. To do that, retailers will have to offer quality products. Just because retail buds may not have the quality of an exceptional batch of most excellent home grown sinsemilla doesn't mean it won't be an enjoyable product.

I think we'll see the emphasis on pure potency diminish in favor of products with distinctive look, smell, taste, and high. Sometimes you want an upbeat, active & social party smoke, something where the difference between getting high and getting utterly blasted isn't the difference between 2 tokes & 3. Sometimes you just want to melt into the couch. Other times you want a different effect. After a bit of sorting out, I'll be able to saunter in for some of that Party Panama to take with me to a gathering, and it'll be the same as I've been buying there for years. I'll develop familiarity with some of the other offerings, as well. Consistency & availability have good qualities all their own.

 

[darkvade420]

I don't agree with all of this ,most med boys have multiple companies Hence the Word Yuppy". People don't go around opening retail stores of any kind if they are any kind of broke.Most Guys who opened shops had a good idea it was gonna be costly process and most guys who opend shops knew about the movement they were in to legalize marijuana.

I used my red card as a front to buy weed at the store like most people here did, I don't have cancer or aids and weed makes my head aches explode with throbbing pain."They have always been rec shops for me"!

The people who step up and sale weed to people are going to be the same ones taking over the scene.Its just a good move in business to sale as much product as you can. And you Better Belive the store that sales its product to everybody is going to make truck loads more money than a store that sales to a small handfull.and this is why becuse if you can grow your own and do a better job than a med shop does to your own standards then you are left with a smaller group of natives who don't want to grow and then out of staters as your main client base.where are the out of state boy's going?

I do agree that some med shops the owners and workers have no clue on the product they sale and how or what its beeen grown with and used in it."not all of them allthough. one med store told me that skunk weed sounds terrable and that nobody would buy something like that.


i really just don't like the fact that people who never tried weed before it was med legal opened stores and starting acting like they knew about weed lol

 

[Jhhnn]

I think Retail is an absolute paradigm shift. The state of weed in Colorado will be much different two years from now.

I think there are a lot of factors at work, for sure.

First off, most people are not gardeners. They're just... not. They have trouble outdoors, let alone understanding & using indoor methods. But many will try their hand at it only to give up. Retail makes it easy to give up. Witness the availability of used equipment on Craigslist, even before retail opens.

It's also important to realize that everybody wants to grow excellent bud, including the big guys. Being able to do so will increasingly become a competitive advantage as things heat up. It's part of the whole idea of consistency building brand loyalty, like any other mass marketed product from blue jeans to beer.

At first, there will be a lot of sampling, people trying varieties they may have heard of, finding out what they like. Once they find out, they'll buy it again & again, but only if it's consistent. Quite how the market will deliver that is up in the air. One way to do it would be with blended pre-rolls, like cigarettes. The blend can be adjusted for every batch of raw materials, which vary by the year, the season, the particular grower. That's a long ways off, I think, if it ever materializes.

I also think that Colorado needs to find a way to better integrate the rules & bring smaller med growers into Retail. Don't try to over-regulate it. If small growers can be completely legit & get what they need that way, they will, for the most part. Their place in the market needs to be expanded & fully legitimized so that they can offer their product to any licensed facility who'll buy it. It'll solve a lot of problems, help keep Colorado weed in Colorado.

There's a very delicate line wrt the Feds & neighboring states around that. Colorado must achieve some success in preventing out of state wholesale transactions as much as possible, at least at first. Giving small growers a piece of the action would facilitate that. They'll grow anyway, bet on that, and sell it wherever they can get a good price. Let 'em get a good price here in Colorado. The only other way that fools could even hope to work would be with a massive sustained crackdown, which I just don't think is really possible. The whole thing is already much too big for that.

 

[Eighths-n-Aces]

IMHO if the government in colorado would make a few changes the game would change too

let MMJ growers into the organic farmers markets to sell next to the guys growing better tomatoes than anyone can buy at any store and see what happens. just like great veggies will always find a market so would the great herb and i know there are plenty of private growers who would love to see how their product would do if the playing field was leveled out in the entire industry.

i think 1000 small scale growers would be 1000x more likely to produce great herb than 1 megagrow. craftsmanship goes out the fucking window when production is all anyone cares about, period. there is a difference between between a ford and a rolls royce folks and the difference IMHO is the time and effort put in by people who either love,or are really good at their jobs ....... or both

let a few of the little growers i know set up a table in the parking lot of dispensary, price everything the same and even pay the same taxes and i would predict there being a retail space for rent within a couple months. is there anyone else here who helped a couple of the original big players get on their feet in the beginning and then got cut out of the game when all the new rules came down? is there anyone who was really surprised that the little guy got his throat cut again?

 

[Avinash.miles]

well said E-n-A, I agree 100%, but don't hold your breath for those kinds of changes in legislation..... not to say it's un-doable...

 

[Eighths-n-Aces]

i hold my breath somewhere between 40 and 100 times a day Avi but i'm not waiting for the politicians to change their game


20 years ago 64 sounded impossible. progress seems to go at a xanexed snail's pace but i'm hoping that 20 years from now we can all be kicking back behind a booth at the farmers market comparing notes (and stuff) instead of wondering what laws or cowboys are going to shoot us all in the ass next

i'm pretty sure we will find other things to debate about though ........ the best weed in the universe won't change human nature

 

[Jhhnn]

well said E-n-A, I agree 100%, but don't hold your breath for those kinds of changes in legislation..... not to say it's un-doable...

True. OTOH, it's really the most cannabis friendly deal in the world. The personal growing provisions of A64 are what anchor the whole thing in bedrock. Coloradans' freedom to just grow doesn't exist anywhere else, at least not to my knowledge.

I try to think of it all as a work in progress. It's unfortunate that there are still forces trying to work some weaseldom on personal growing, like this-

Adult residents can grow up to 6 marijuana plants per person. No more than 12 total plants are allowed per residence regardless of the number of adults living there. Marijuana plants must be kept in an enclosed, locked area.

http://www.colorado.gov/pacific/marijuanainfodenver/marijuana-retailers-home-growers

Which doesn't match A64 entirely, and is therefore unconstitutional. I sent 'em an email. Just because a person lives in a household with more than 2 adults doesn't mean they don't have the same right to grow as anybody else. Everybody can have 6 plants w/ 3 flowering- no if's, and's, or but's. It's black letter Constitutional law.

 

[Canniwhatsis]

I was reading a news article about this and they are pushing that BS because A64 doesn't strictly forbid localities from setting such limits.

 

[AlterEgo860]

just hope the guys that are pushing for this.. are taking all of the laws into consideration when quality should be one of the main concerns.. marijuana as an alternative to any other drugs is safer yes.. but it can also become just as bad as tobacco or alcohol.. if quality control doesn't EXIST in this system.

 

[Eureka Springs Organics]

I was in a shop yesterday that is going Rec., and they schooled me a bit on how it is going to work. As far as plant count goes whatever your plants count is for medical is what your mirror plant count can be for rec.

So they will still need to recruit med members as it will dictate how much rec. they can grow.

Seems fucked up at best.

 

[Avinash.miles]

so rec plant counts are tied to med. patient numbers, according to those peeps...

Iwas told yesterday by one of the bongathon peeps that a REC mips gets 500 plants..... same person told me that med/rec is supposed to be kept entirely separate, from seed to sale a plant/product must be designate medical or rec, can't sell a rec brownie to a med patient/ can't sell med flowers to rec peeps. can't grow a plant in your med warehouse and sell it to rec and vice versa....
granted this is just what i heard from a "reliable source";
and that is exactly why I'm still searching the new rec rules for where this is written out.... because otherwise it's all just he said she said shit... no matter how reliable the source I'm always one to see the law/rules in written form, so i can interpret them myself.

it's funny how something gets under my skin like this... I just don't KNOW yet how this will be determined, don't need to know, but just WANT to know for my own personal knowledge....
damn you eureka sprngs organics...

LOL, jk
the search continues.


hope yall have a good weekend, anyone going to the secret cup?

 

[Eureka Springs Organics]

The conversation I had was very eye opening. They are going to have to RFID every plant, and the tag will have to follow the product all the way to the jar in the display case. They want to be able to scan a warehouse, and instantly know how many plants are in it.

I think these geniuses are forgetting that every plant, and every grower will yield something different. To track the true production is all but impossible.

Needless to say I can't believe anyone would want to go rec. right now as the rules are stupid at best. They will continue to ebb and flow which will cost the dispensaries tons of cash.

There seems to be a lot of arbitrary rules that make no sense to someone that actually knows how to grow a plant.

The only thing that anyone can be sure of is that it is going to be a complete cluster fuck.

That being said there are a ton of shops going rec. I was in 6 yesterday alone. That doesn't count the shops that are chains that have other stores going rec.

Should be interesting form the sidelines.

 

[Eureka Springs Organics]

so rec plant counts are tied to med. patient numbers, according to those peeps...

Iwas told yesterday by one of the bongathon peeps that a REC mips gets 500 plants..... same person told me that med/rec is supposed to be kept entirely separate, from seed to sale a plant/product must be designate medical or rec, can't sell a rec brownie to a med patient/ can't sell med flowers to rec peeps. can't grow a plant in your med warehouse and sell it to rec and vice versa....
granted this is just what i heard from a "reliable source";
and that is exactly why I'm still searching the new rec rules for where this is written out.... because otherwise it's all just he said she said shit... no matter how reliable the source I'm always one to see the law/rules in written form, so i can interpret them myself.

it's funny how something gets under my skin like this... I just don't KNOW yet how this will be determined, don't need to know, but just WANT to know for my own personal knowledge....
damn you eureka sprngs organics...

LOL, jk
the search continues.


hope yall have a good weekend, anyone going to the secret cup?

I had someone invite me out to the secret cup , but was on the fence about going. Free entry was a bit of a motivator.

 

[Jhhnn]

so rec plant counts are tied to med. patient numbers, according to those peeps...

Iwas told yesterday by one of the bongathon peeps that a REC mips gets 500 plants..... same person told me that med/rec is supposed to be kept entirely separate, from seed to sale a plant/product must be designate medical or rec, can't sell a rec brownie to a med patient/ can't sell med flowers to rec peeps. can't grow a plant in your med warehouse and sell it to rec and vice versa....
granted this is just what i heard from a "reliable source";
and that is exactly why I'm still searching the new rec rules for where this is written out.... because otherwise it's all just he said she said shit... no matter how reliable the source I'm always one to see the law/rules in written form, so i can interpret them myself.

it's funny how something gets under my skin like this... I just don't KNOW yet how this will be determined, don't need to know, but just WANT to know for my own personal knowledge....
damn you eureka sprngs organics...

LOL, jk
the search continues.


hope yall have a good weekend, anyone going to the secret cup?

There's a great deal of up in the air weirdness atm, no doubt. OTOH, I think that the retail weed for sale Jan 1 will have to have come from somewhere, kinda like Joe Kennedy having warehouses full of booze before the ink was dry on the end of prohibition.

Play nice, pay your taxes, and they may want to talk about tightening up your paperwork act later. Well, if they're smart, anyway. We'll see.

 

[Jbomber79]

You folks are killing this thread, great info and from what I can gather correct in most accounts.
will we see huge industry (e.g. big Tabaco) getting into rec? lots of shops are claiming there are not touching it but that doesn't say a lot..

 

[Jhhnn]

Meh. and there's always the rear guard of the anti-MJ forces, going for the weasel move. See sec 11.8.4-

http://www.denvergov.org/Portals/646/documents/DZC/Text Amendments/15/Amd_MJ_ResGrow_Packet_PB.pdf

They're trying to carry the legislated plant counts of MMJ over to personal growing wrt personal recreational plant counts. It can't fly. A64 allows 6 plants per person, so it's obvious that 12 plants per household infringes upon Constitutional rights in households having 3 or more adults. A zoning violation? Really? How you gonna bust 'em, anyway? And then what when the grower takes it to court, points out the black letter law of A64?

Nor can they deny growers the right to give away smoke at any place other than their residence, provided that Constitutional carry limits are observed.

But they can play games that will ultimately backfire on the City. I suppose it soothes some of the "concerns" while being utterly unenforceable. We'll just string 'em along, I suppose.

 

[Lesterburnum]

Hmm. I talk to people smarter than me. Lawyers. Couple hund to get the DL from the horses mouth is priceless.

 

[Avinash.miles]

Hmm. I talk to people smarter than me. Lawyers. Couple hund to get the DL from the horses mouth is priceless.

time to call your lawyer and drop some hundo's then.