LED to replace HPS, need real answers

[gnarly]

Hi All,

I'm looking for an LED solution that saves energy over all, but does not compromise anything else (more efficient than HPS by a worthwhile margin).

EDIT: If there is a somewhat recent thread (2013) that actually answers my inquiry, please link it.

I'm very frustrated by all of the discussions about LED I find because they assume I'm going to manufacture my own or generally have incomplete data (they say they replace some kind of HPS, don't mention grow area, don't compare yields with similar systems, etc... PAR watts, but not discussing the distance from canopy.) You name it, everyone has discussed everything, but in a half-informative way that never really gives the reader the answer many people are looking for. EX: What the hell is a PAR watt discussion worth mentioning to compare to a HPS if you're not talking about light spread and distance from canopy and have gpw results?

I'm not going to build it.

This is what I want to know:

What current commercially available LED grow lights have the light spread and output (glossing over details here) to be comparable to your average (Eye Hortilux, Agro) 1000W HPS in a Blockbuster or similar hood that has somewhat even light distribution. The idea is simple: what LED grow light will be comparable and useful in a 4x4 area. what about 3x3?

The price of the device is not what I want to hear from anyone. That's my problem. What I want to hear is what device is comparable.

Most of us from the pre-LED time period have a good working knowledge of what 1000W/4x4 in a given system will do. With Sour D, pruned and SOG, it will do 1-1.3 lbs/4x4 -- in my system. I want the same results with an LED.

If what you will recommend is more powerful, please let me know.

Price and actual wattage are things I can figure out for my own side of things. With enough recommendations from people with actual pre-LED(HPS) and current-LED experience, it should be relatively easy to find something I can be happy with.

I apologize if this seems a little wordy and redundant. I'm frustrated as all hell after reading hours and hours (spread across many days over the last 2 years) of opinions and sales pitches, and pretty much all of them lacking a complete data set that tells the whole story. The only thing I think I can trust now is you guys and your own beliefs. If you have complete data and want to tell me, fine. I'm open to actually seeing that kind of information. But the gist of all of this is to trust ya'll on your opinion of what is comparable, get a list of those suggestions, and then evaluate them myself for what I finally want.

Thanks in advance.
Gnar

 

[FreedomGrower]

I would look into these

http://www.homegrownlights.com/Procyon300_4.pdf

http://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/lumigrow-lu70001-specsheet.pdf

 

[aridbud]

Roughly a 600w LED (the out put is 400w) is most equivalent to 1000w HPS. You don't get the heat build up, you do save electricity and they last longer.

Look on eBay or I'm sure most online hydro/light stores probably have a discount going on. I waited until January as prices are discounted a bit more since everyone seems to be materialistic little shoppers @ holiday season, thus no money in Jan.

 

[yujin]

I use an LED fixture from a company called Lush Lighting. It draws somewhere around 450 watts I think. Way less heat than my 600 watt hps. The fixture is supposed to be a replacement for a 1000 watt hps. I'm not sure of that, as I've never grown with a 1000 watt lamp. But I can honestly say it's as good as my 600 watt hps was. It's actually better than that was. Plus with the lack of heat it produces I can now run my grow tent completely sealed. I am actually able to run it all sealed up with no ventilation and the temp tops out at 82-83. Which I think is perfect for a CO2 enriched environment. Honestly, I'm more of the medical/personal grower. I feel kinda lazy, my last 2 crops I never weighed any of it. I am growing enough for me. That's all I'm really concerned with. The up front costs are quite expensive for the latest LED technology. But you do save on the cost of running them. Plus you realize how much more efficient they are when you see how much you save on your AC bill. If you do decide to buy an LED, do your homework. Most stuff you see coming in from overseas is crap. Don't fool yourself that you can get into LED's on the cheap. Well, you can, but it's a big waste of your time and money. I think we're at a time when the technology is finally out there. You just need to wade through all the bullshit. Because we've been fed a lot in the past.

 

[bombadil.360]

hey man,

I'm on a more or less similar boat as you, even though I never was an indoor grower, only outdoors, and been researching LED for growing for a year already...

what I've come to understand is that this whole LED vs. HID debate is not very accurate, as these two light sources are very different and both have cons and pros, so there's really no clear-cut answer about 'replacing' HID with LED.

we know HID works well and we know LED works well too; and people should be thinking about using either one according to their specific needs.

also, as of now, it is truly hard to choose a LED grow light since there are so fucking many it is ridiculous actually, and 98% of all companies will try to sell you using the same exact rap about them being the best, most efficient, leaders in research, blah blah blah...

ironically, if you search these forums as well as others, you will find very good grow reports using all kinds of LED lamps, from cheap chinese shit up to expensive american made lamps.

check out the videos about LEDs by Growers House and OneShotgrow in youtube, that should help you with some of the questions you asked, for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-8OY0QBgrs

good luck!

edit: also, beware of so many vendors who just have a company in China make their lamps, stamp a brand name, and re-sell it to you for 4-5 times the price per unit.

 

[PetFlora]

If you can hold off just a bit, I m scheduled to do grow with the new A-51 panel. Feel free to go to their site to read up...

Here's my sat dom clones (WHxWW) vegging under 2 all white led ufo 90s

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=275683

 

[gnarly]

Thank you to everyone who has posted so far. Please keep them coming or if you agree with something already posted, please reinforce it with a quick comment. Your opinion is what I will trust more than any spec sheet.

 

[Phychotron]

I like Advanced LED's DS400, two of those would be perfect for a 4x4 area.

 

[Snype]

Thank you to everyone who has posted so far. Please keep them coming or if you agree with something already posted, please reinforce it with a quick comment. Your opinion is what I will trust more than any spec sheet.

You wont get clear answers because you wont get more g/watt with LED than HPS. You also wont get deep light penetration with LEDs like HPS. Ive been through this too many times. Good luck finding clear answers.

 

[PetFlora]

Dude, you're basing your current position on old tech.

Current mj based led tech outperforms hps at half the wattage

You wont get clear answers because you wont get more g/watt with LED than HPS. You also wont get deep light penetration with LEDs like HPS. Ive been through this too many times. Good luck finding clear answers.

 

[Snype]

Dude, you're basing your current position on old tech.

Current mj based led tech outperforms hps at half the wattage

So 400 watts of LED pulls 800 grams? I doubt it. Im talking real watts from the wall. I dont doubt you can get a gram per watt with LeD but 2 gpw? Never. Unless you look at some bum tests here. I recall a log where a led grower would take his light out after 12 hours and put it on another crop for 12 hours. Then he would put that same light back on the first crop. He would call both crops the same and add both crops to the total even though the light was used for 24 hours. Show me these 2 gpw led crops?

 

[sahdgrower]

People, I don't understand why a bunch of you keep posting the same anecdotal posts i.e. "try this light" or "I use that light". What I heard OP ask was clear.... Anyone have actual and factual experience with BOTH lighting types and if so what light have they used or KNOW to be effective replacement for 1000w. It is very difficult to get a good honest answer on the topic when sooooo many people put these far less than informative posts into the mix. I like Snype would like to get LED. I also have read and read and read hours. No good conclusive evidence. People read Snypes previous posts on any subject and you will understand the data he is looking for. Something tangible. I beg the ICmag community to churn up someone who can do a bang up report on their personal experience and results using both technologies.

 

[Snype]

Dont take what im saying the wrong way. Not hating on LEDs. Real watt for watt, they are probably comparable to HPS with experienced growers.

 

[coolbud]

The real answer gonna be coming from your side , nobody is in the position to decide for you.You have enough grows on this website @ leds.you can do the math yourself , by starting this thread you just started a debate led vs hps ,i dont mind that but everyone has an opinion on its own , some like hps more , some like led more.The point is if you manage to get it dialed , you gonna see something special like....lets say BETTER QUALITY ? that seems about a good reason to switch.Theres no denying that LED Lights produce way more frostiness , just surf thru grow journals and see it for yourself.
Good luck

 

[gnarly]

The real answer gonna be coming from your side , nobody is in the position to decide for you.You have enough grows on this website @ leds.you can do the math yourself , by starting this thread you just started a debate led vs hps ,i dont mind that but everyone has an opinion on its own , some like hps more , some like led more.The point is if you manage to get it dialed , you gonna see something special like....lets say BETTER QUALITY ? that seems about a good reason to switch.Theres no denying that LED Lights produce way more frostiness , just surf thru grow journals and see it for yourself.
Good luck

I won't be surfing through the grow journals any more than I already have, which has already been stated when I started the thread. I didn't start any debate -- some people came in here and decided to give me information that I didn't ask for. I didn't ask anyone to tell me LED is trash for gpw. I asked for opinions of LED products that compare to a standard 1000W HID in a 4x4 situation. If you don't think it can compare, you shouldn't even be posting. I've read enough on the topic, and now I'm wasting my time telling you to read the first post again so you know what this thread is all about.

 

[gnarly]

People, I don't understand why a bunch of you keep posting the same anecdotal posts i.e. "try this light" or "I use that light". What I heard OP ask was clear.... Anyone have actual and factual experience with BOTH lighting types and if so what light have they used or KNOW to be effective replacement for 1000w. It is very difficult to get a good honest answer on the topic when sooooo many people put these far less than informative posts into the mix. I like Snype would like to get LED. I also have read and read and read hours. No good conclusive evidence. People read Snypes previous posts on any subject and you will understand the data he is looking for. Something tangible. I beg the ICmag community to churn up someone who can do a bang up report on their personal experience and results using both technologies.

Thank you. My handle is Gnarly, though.

 

[gnarly]

I like Advanced LED's DS400, two of those would be perfect for a 4x4 area.

This is just a question from ignorance, but from having looked at a lot of information about all of this. Do you think that two DS400 over a 4x4 area would be significantly more powerful than a 1000W HID? If you were to say which one would be more powerful, which would it be, even if just by a small margin?

So far I'm really grateful of the posts that have been made. The 'good products' are definitely floating to the surface in this thread.

Thanks! Keep it coming ya'll!

 

[Sativa Dragon]

I find the 1000w led I have does not put on the same weight and the essential oil profile was different.

The 1000Watt HPS produces some heavy weight knarly looking buds. And the essential oil profile is more complex.

My .02

Peace

 

[Phychotron]

I've never used HID so its hard to say how it would compare exactly, but two in that size area would be about as good as you can get for lighting. I have one DS400 and plan on getting two more to replace some of the DS100's and Blackstar's that I have. The buds under the 400 are always much fatter--granted it is in the center, but even when run alone it does better than the others. My DS100's were built by eShine before Advanced dumped them as a manufacturer due to quality problems and they do seem to fall a little short when comparing 4 of them to the DS400. Plus having that many lights is annoying to manage.


What I like about the DS400 is that it is ideal for a 4' wide section. Its long and rectangular with a 4x2.5' coverage area, so you can get good overlap in the center with your 4x4'. I don't think you can get a single LED that will cover the area with as good as two of these. Other light fixtures have square or rectangular footprints, but often don't square up when combining them, usually they will be for an area not the exact size as yours. I.e working with a 2x3' footprint fixture would be more difficult to get even lighting. You could do it with four 2x2' fixtures but then your dealing with four fixtures--harder to hang in a tent with only a few poles, they slide around and are a bitch to work with.

 

[aridbud]

Dude, you're basing your current position on old tech.

Current mj based led tech outperforms hps at half the wattage

Yep, I agree. My lights (LED) penetrate, far less expensive to run. I get nice dense buds or whatever dominate shape occurs depending on what strain. Would never go back to MH/HPS....but that's just me. cfl's and T-5/8's do a great job, too. Just depends on what you want to accomplish and budget, space, proper background (mylar) and other factors.