Proper maturity for an Ace sativa - ignore the trichomes?

[Adze]

Check the daylight hours at the equator:

http://astro.unl.edu/classaction/animations/coordsmotion/daylighthoursexplorer.html

 

[MostlyMe]

I think it's fair to say anything +/- 15 degrees latitude is 'at or near' the equator, and anything within 15 degrees of the equator see no day or night longer than 13 hour.

 

[Terpene]

Rosenthall is right, but you don't have to be so strict about it. 12/12 is a catch-all light deprivation rule and works for 99.9% of cannabis. 12/12 comes at the expense of slightly reduced weight in short flowering indicas and minor bolting in extreme sativas.

Reducing times throughout flowering will be more similar to what a plant would encounter in nature and speeds flowering, but doesn't work in perpetual setups. You don't have to reduce hours a week at a time, after all we're starting these plants in 18/6 (in my case 20/4) and then going directly to 12/12 and they don't freak out. If you want to speed sativas, just turn your hours down to 10 day / 14 night in the last few weeks - they'll finish real quick.

Some early indicas will start flowering in 14-14.5 hours of daylight, which is the reason they finish so early - they've evolved a jump start on the cold season. Extreme sativas don't have to worry about cold seasons at the equator and tend to run until death around the minimum day length in their natural habitats - usually 11 hours or so.

For the last several years, I've run 11.5/12.5 from the start. Most of the places that sativas originate have 11/13 or similar hours around the winter solstice. Running less daylight will stimulate sativas to finish faster at a MINOR expense in yield. For really extreme, pencil-leaf sativas like pure hazes or equatorial africans, I run 11/13 to help them finish faster. My 26 week haze would have benefited from 10 or even 9 hours of daylight (minor bolting), but I'm in no hurry for smoke.

As an example of time making a difference in maturation, my most recent run of Purple Haze x Malawi outdoor finished Dec 1st at a light cycle of around 10 day / 14 night. My indoor pheno at 11.5 day / 12.5 night will probably finish around Jan 1st. Now to be fair, some of that time difference is because the plants are from seed and one is more hazey and the other more malawi, but you get the idea.

 

[MostlyMe]

I found the study I was referring to: less light = less thc.

 

[Ranger]

I found the study I was referring to: less light = less thc.

nice study, noted the 14 and 16 hour plants never went into flower, seems correct since it's an equatorial strain. also noted less CBC when going with 2 hours longer flower. CBC is one of the main constituents of fighting cancer, among other things. i guess if you're looking for medicine it would be in your best interest to flower at 10-11 hours verses 12.

 

[The Hatter]

I've heard a lot of good things about 11/13 for tropical sativas. I think the next time my room is being held up for those few extra weeks by my longer flowering more equatorial plants I will try dialing it back another hour.

Has anyone noticed males seem to be triggered to flower at an earlier stage in the light switch than females? I dial my lights back slowly to 12/12 instead of switching the photo period all at once and it seems to me the males react much sooner to the flip? It was most notable with the Nep Jam males I had last time. Maybe it was just a fluke but I'm curious if anyone else has noticed this?

 

[de145]

Of course, where are my manners! Click

Not the study itself (I don't think it's available online), but it's referenced and summarized properly.

I think I just found a link to the original study, it has the same chart in it: http://www.hempreport.com/issues/17/malbody17.html

I *totally* swear by this now. I've adjusted all my harvests recently based on smoke tests week by week and my experience with that dovetails exactly with what that study claims: harvest at the very first hint of color in the trichomes (just before if you can work that out). In quite a wide variety of strains it also seems to match with the hairs being about 50/50 dead and green / white / pink etc.

The same strains I've been growing for years are suddenly twice or more as potent as I thought they were just by harvesting a week or two earlier than I was before.

Everyone who says "wait for amber trichomes" should have their fingers virtually slapped if they type that, it's utterly wrong and just a waste of so much time and effort.

 

[Terpene]

Harvest at the very first hint of color in the trichomes (just before if you can work that out).

In quite a wide variety of strains it also seems to match with the hairs being about 50/50 dead and green / white / pink etc.

Everyone who says "wait for amber trichomes" should have their fingers virtually slapped if they type that, it's utterly wrong and just a waste of so much time and effort.

It's all personal preference when it comes to cloudy vs. 10% amber, but the high rolls longer with the ambered trichs. The amber does tend to mellow out the racy / energetic effects a bit in my experience, good for those of us who tear through our fingernails when we're a little too ramped up. There is a point of diminishing returns - probably around 30% amber. Keep in mind its the complete profile of the cannabis, not just the thc that provides the enjoyment.

Don't cut anything down with live pistils. I once heard of a collective that advertised all their strains came down "with no dead hairs anywhere on the plant" as if it made them more potent. It's almost like bragging about your ish only having a 20 minute effect before more is needed. I'll bet its great for repeat business though.

 

[Siever]

Hi Terpene,

One can harvest in phases.
Pick out the branches which are ready. The rest is for later.

 

[Zanddar]

Hello

Males tend to show first in veg and also start to flower before females.
So pollen is already in the air waiting to contact early female pistils.
This is a general rule and there will be some that are different.

I don't play with the light cycle.Just put them between 11 and 12 hrs in flower and be done with it.
No need to do extra work to reach the same goal.

Harvesting is personal preference.
Any strain I have comes down when most,if not all pistils are brown.There maybe only a few new pistils and that's all.
I rarely ever look at the color of trichs and only when taking pics.Although,the longer you let it go,the darker the bud will appear.
Brown pistils are good,but brown bud maybe too far gone and lost some potency.
Let the pistils turn,bud swell and then cut.Ripe fruit is not picked when green or too brown.

Good Day

 

[Ranger]

is it normal for purple haze to start to get some yellowing large fan leaves and also for the buds to show some browning as in almost finished, 8 weeks into flower?

my first run of pure sativas so i have no idea what to look for. i have three girls 10.5 weeks into flower and if i didn't know any better, i would swear they were getting close. then again i have only experience with indica dominant strains.

i just harvested some Ace Mazar at 8 weeks in the same grown and these purple haze girls are looking, well, close?

any info is appreciated

 

[Ranger]

Wow...great thread. I have been gnawing on this issue for quite a while and this is incredibly thought-provoking and informative.

I'm in favor of trying to let a sat be a sat. Why would I grow something for 1/3 of a year or so and have it knock me over the head like Northern Lights? Nope - I want that certain "sat" something. Up...trippy...visual...warm...bring it on. At the same time, I like the high to have "legs" - "gravitas." Kinda like a good stereo system - bass, mid-range, and treble. Well-balanced. Highly subjective. I know that there is such a thing as harvesting too early - for me at least - I guess the high is bright and up but descends relatively quickly -lacks a bass presence.

I have a question that wasn't addressed -I don't think- in the thread. This goes out to the brave, inside growers of deep sats who cut their light to 11/13 (or more) during flower. Do you think that this speeds up maturation in terms of flower time?

I ask because I have a few Ace/CBG relatively deep sats going - Panama, VbxT, Zamaldelica and Malawi - I switched 'em to 11/13 relatively early in flowering and it seems to me as if a Panama and VbXT are looking close to harvest - they are both at 70 days. It seems a tad quick - I was thinking of taking 'em to 11 or 12 weeks - but they are looking like they are beginning to meet the criteria in the article and also conforms to what some of you have discussed. I add that the VbXT is a clone from a mature Mom - pre-flowered, alternate branches, etc.

Anyhow, thanks for the interesting read!

getting the same thing mayan, i have had my purple haze on 11/13 since the beginning and at week 10.5 they are looking like they could finish in a week or two, especially the green haze pheno. my trich's are clear and cloudy about 50% each.

just went over my journal and they are at 10 and a half weeks so they are not too early i suppose, but still i think Ace advertises 16-20 weeks on these.

 

[Terpene]

getting the same thing mayan, i have had my purple haze on 11/13 since the beginning and at week 10.5 they are looking like they could finish in a week or two, especially the green haze pheno. my trich's are clear and cloudy about 50% each.

just went over my journal and they are at 10 and a half weeks so they are not too early i suppose, but still i think Ace advertises 16-20 weeks on these.

Your dying fan leaves are VERY normal. Hazes drop all of their leaves through flower to make more light available for the lower buds. I usually have a nice thick leaf mulch layer from each haze I run by the time they finish.

At 10 weeks, you're going to see the plants start to seal up, but they won't be anywhere close to finishing till around 15 weeks. Hazes have a tendency to look like they're going to stop pushing and then suddenly open up and bolt like crazy, usually foxtailing for a couple weeks after the point you're at now. Give you an idea - in 11.5D/12.5N my pure purple haze took 26.5 weeks and my ace haze x thai crosses took 19 and 21 weeks.

 

[Ranger]

Your dying fan leaves are VERY normal. Hazes drop all of their leaves through flower to make more light available for the lower buds. I usually have a nice thick leaf mulch layer from each haze I run by the time they finish.

At 10 weeks, you're going to see the plants start to seal up, but they won't be anywhere close to finishing till around 15 weeks. Hazes have a tendency to look like they're going to stop pushing and then suddenly open up and bolt like crazy, usually foxtailing for a couple weeks after the point you're at now. Give you an idea - in 11.5D/12.5N my pure purple haze took 26.5 weeks and my ace haze x thai crosses took 19 and 21 weeks.

wow that's good to hear and thanks much Terpene. i have my girls on 11\13 from start of flower and did pollinate 3 buds, dunno if that shortens them or not, but my bud hairs are browning pretty heavy on one, but that seems to be the green pheno only, with the other two just beginning to drop those fan leaves like you said.

again thanks man!!

 

[mayan]

I don't want to go too far afield from this fascinating topic but I was hoping that I could get your thoughts on a photoperiod issue - rather than hijack the topic, feel free to message me. I won't stray again! Promise!

So, I am coming to the last few weeks of my relatively deep sat grow at 11/13. I am hoping to put in some more plants shortly that may not need the shorter photoperiod. I'm wondering whether I could start any of the new plants at 11/13 and then bump 'em back up to 12/12 after a week or so when the last of the current plants get harvested? Or would it throw their time-clock out of whack and result in bad and undesireable things like hermies? I am happy to try to wait until the last of the 11/13ers come out but I don't want the prospective plants to grow too tall before starting 'em in flower.

Anyhow, your thoughts would be gratefully received...any experiences doing something similar would also be most welcome.

 

[Zanddar]

Just get them started and you be ok.

 

[Iffy]

Fascinating thread people. (subbed)
I've always held the belief that once all the trichs had gone 'gin' clear, it was time to watch for the first sign of yellowing and then crop. I think I'm going to start playing with it myself, just for the education.

 

[kiwigreen420]

I think sativas are harder to judge, indicas are always easy to tell - a slight ambering then chop.

I'm guessing equatorial sativas wouldn't amber up as much as pure indicas?.

 

[Terpene]

I don't want to go too far afield from this fascinating topic but I was hoping that I could get your thoughts on a photoperiod issue - rather than hijack the topic, feel free to message me. I won't stray again! Promise!

So, I am coming to the last few weeks of my relatively deep sat grow at 11/13. I am hoping to put in some more plants shortly that may not need the shorter photoperiod. I'm wondering whether I could start any of the new plants at 11/13 and then bump 'em back up to 12/12 after a week or so when the last of the current plants get harvested? Or would it throw their time-clock out of whack and result in bad and undesireable things like hermies? I am happy to try to wait until the last of the 11/13ers come out but I don't want the prospective plants to grow too tall before starting 'em in flower.

Anyhow, your thoughts would be gratefully received...any experiences doing something similar would also be most welcome.

Go for it. If the plant is willing to drop into flowering, its reached its minimum night hour requirement. Shorter nights produce longer flowering times because the plant thinks its fall and not the dead of winter.

I wouldn't go changing it back and forth between 11/13 and 12/12 every other week, but once during flower wont make any difference. Plants are naturally programmed to adapt to the daylight length changes, which in extreme latitudes like Alaska, can change by nearly 10 minutes - each day.

 

[pinkus]

but once during flower wont make any difference.

Terpene is right (of course ) tacking on an extra hour of light will increase flowering time... but just a bit.

After following your posts though Mayan you seem OK with an open ended harvest window. I know some guys that say ten weeks and DAMN IT! I'm chopping at 10!!! whether or not the plant is ready.... let the plant tell you