Neem Oil question (how to mix it)

[Cyklo]

Hi i just recieved my order of Neem Oil 100 ml organic!

Can anyone instruct me how much neem oil, tab water and how much soap i need to add for a sprayable mix?

I wanna use a regular sized cup (33cl) for that.

Can anyone tell me the exact amount of :

Tablespoon Neem Oil
Tablespoon Soap
Water

I need to add?

 

[canna woop!]

Assuming you're doing a foliage spray. Somewhere around 1 teaspoon neem oil, 5-10 drops Castile soap or other non chemical soap, to a pint of warm water. You can also measure the strength of neem by tasting a droplet, or just look at the water after it is mixed to see its color.

Also my soap suggestion is just since you asked. I usually use aloe Vera to emulsify. Spray at night

I also remember reading that the effectiveness of neem can be increased by adding sesame oil, as well as pyrethrums to the spray. Have not tried it though.

Are you seeing insects?

 

[Cyklo]

Assuming you're doing a foliage spray. Somewhere around 1 teaspoon neem oil, 5-10 drops Castile soap or other non chemical soap, to a pint of warm water. You can also measure the strength of neem by tasting a droplet, or just look at the water after it is mixed to see its color.

Also my soap suggestion is just since you asked. I usually use aloe Vera to emulsify. Spray at night

I also remember reading that the effectiveness of neem can be increased by adding sesame oil, as well as pyrethrums to the spray. Have not tried it though.

Are you seeing insects?

Thanks for reply... not sure more like prevention
I saw some holes in my plants look at pictures and tell me what u think:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://pho.to/44q1s[/FONT]

 

[Cyklo]

1 teaspoon of neem per cup are u sure? Ya i wana spray the leafes and of course only when light is off... By the way is dish soap bad? I might used dish soap :/

 

[Oliver Pantsoff]

Use one drop 1-2 drops of soap as a wetting agent...Dont go over that...Hope this helps

OP

 

[hempfield]

When it's shaken very well, the neem and soap create an emulsion which does not separate to fast. For this pourposes I use a high speed hand blender : I use a tall plastic cup in which I pour the oil and the soap. I start the blender and pour the water drop by drop first, then more and more until you obtain a fine white foam and then a cloudy like emulsion . In that way the sprayer nozzle does not clog with neem (which tends to solidify when exposed to air).

I also add hot peppers, cinnamon and garlic for a stronger and repellent effect. For a real poisonous insecticide you can use tobacco tea (made from a few cigarettes boiled on the same amount of water). It kills many insects, but can be harmful for human skin and health so it's better to wear gloves and face mask when spraying.

Hot peppers can cause eye burns , so take extra care using them.

Don't preserve this foliar spray emultion. Use it right after preparation. Garlic tends to create slightly poisonous compounds when crushed and oxidized.

 

[Granger2]

The problem I've had with neem is that the water you mix it with needs to be warm or it separates. What a mess. Just buy some Coco Wet and use according to instructions. Doesn't your bottle of neem have instructions on dilution rate? If so follow them.

If you're going to use a blender, get some Lecithin granules at the natural foods store or online and throw some in. It will make a stable emulsion of the oil and water. It'll also give your plants a shot of P.

I don't see any holes in your leaves. All I see is some nute issues. Good luck. -granger

 

[canna woop!]

1 teaspoon of neem per cup are u sure? Ya i wana spray the leafes and of course only when light is off... By the way is dish soap bad? I might used dish soap :/

I meant 1 teaspoon per 1/3 gallon or per liter, that's th size of th spray bottle I use
Sorry about confusion
It really depends on th quality of neem, and which soap you add. A lot of soaps have chemical ingredients, that are harmful to plants. Read the product label. It should tell you everything you need to know.

 

[yujin]

It looks like a magnesium problem, not a bug problem. You could try a foliar spray of epsom salts at something like 1 tbsp per gallon. Or you could water it in, but that will take a lot longer to work. If you do water it in, go a little higher, say 2-4 tbsp per gallon. If the water is warm it dissolves much more easily.

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

Looks like nutes/roots/ph problem, one of those...It doesn't look like a pest unless one in the rootzone. Check your pot ph and ec by putting it over a bucket and pouring RO or distilled water in it and letting it drain out, check the ec and ph of the drainwater which will give you an idea of what is happening down there. It could all be fine and if you see little flyers could be unhealthy roots due to critters and if no flyers could be the roots drying too often or being too wet and having no oxygen. It could be ph in which case you must balance your nutes properly, or could be ec spiking up in which case you need to flush with plain water till measuring fine and feed a slightly weaker solution to prevent salt buildup and look into why salt buildup is happening in the first place (could be to much dry in a 'dry cycle' of your watering schedule). Epsom salts will always help a sick plant IME and you dont need much, 1g/1L is plenty.

Now about the spraying, spray if you need to but be hesitant until you have worked out what the problem is. The spray might knock a weak plant out, I've lost precious moms in past times like this. Also wait at least 5 days or even 7 days in between oil sprays to allow for the leaves to absorb the oil and be able to breathe freely again. Spraying too often will suffocate leaves and shock the plant badly. Watch photo-toxicity also, as you have taken precaution for...Use a commercial wetting agent if you can get at a nursery near you, otherwise yukka or aloe agents or at a pinch green dishwash liquid (only a few drops per L, half teaspoon is almost too much). Combine other oils like garlic, mint, lavender, thyme, rosemary, citronella, eucalyptus etc..use essential oils very sparingly! Also lastly combine with spinosad for more lasting protection and maybe do a water with a spinosad solution now before the plant sets in flower to take out root critters and on that note lastly lastly cover the top of your soil zone on unhealthy plants before spraying to prevent overspray coating already sick roots with oil, this will kill the roots off and the plant most likely won't make it. This is my general solution that i use in my food garden and nursery and I have resident birds, predator insects and amphibians that have gone through generations now without issues, happy bees too, plant oils are the non-toxic solution.
Good luck.

 

[MileHighGuy]

Here is the way to fix your problems right now without guessing at the cause.

Topdress with wormcastings, Ideally an inch across the top or as much as you can fit into the pot.

Water through....

Clean up those ugly leaves and get some airflow around the bottom of that plant.... not imperative but will help. Many times you will get leaf on leaf action under the canopy holding moisture on each other and causing some funk.

Edit: You will see dramatic improvement within 1 week or less.

Neem Oil recipe: (Although I don't see a bug issue)

You'll have to do your own conversion for the size spray bottle you will use.

Recipe for 1 gallon.

1oz Neem Oil
1oz Dr. Bronners Soap or even 2 oz if there is active infestation. (Don't be scared of soap)

Alternatively - 1.5grams agsil16h to 1oz neem oil and then into 1 gallon water.

 

[MileHighGuy]

Since when did all this PH and EC talk start creeping back in the organic section?

Am I lost?

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

Aha organic soil forum hahaha... Yeah.. didn't notice that one

 

[Granger2]

So we can't mention pH in this section? And where I would say low strength, some people would say low EC, meaning low strength. Talk about censorship...Pfft. granger

 

[MileHighGuy]

Ph as far as testing Runoff.... Yeah kinda ridiculous, shouldn't be brought up at all as advice for an organic soil.

Soil test, different story.

Low strength what?

EC is for salts. In organics, where would the EC fit in to the equation?

It's not like it's about being a dick. It's just language that doesn't apply, like talking about hydro equipment, it just doesn't apply.... and then it's even more confusing to the new organic growers really trying to figure it all out.

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

OK calm down people haha.. the pot over a bucket trick is useful, organic or not, to get an idea of what is happening in your rootzone anyway. I've used it since being taught it as a cucumber farmer a decade ago by another farmer. The jist of my earlier reply was that this is most likely a rootzone issue than a pest issue still stands. My techniques are suited to hydro and hybrid but still give one valuable information in organic with regards to what is happening there. Roting roots, unbalanced compost mixes and unhealthy micro flora will all affect the PH. EC could indicate you of bad water sources, salt buildup, which can happen and bad or leaching mix components in addition to helping one identify other problems like N-deficiency when N is there in abundance. In this case an ec spike where no salts are being fed at all, still with N-deficiencies but ph being stable and in range would show that the drying cycle is too extreme and/or rootzones or pots etc are drying out too quickly, too often or getting too warm. The cures would be watering more often or insulating pots with a fabric from direct light or having more compost in the mix amongst others to hold moisture better. Your micro flora would be suffering in this given example and an ec and ph pen would have easily id'd the problem for you in time to correct.

PH is important, in organic too including the water-source as well. EC and PH of water source is important too. If things are out of range in ph in organic, either more organic material would need to be added or maybe more lime-rock-powder or alkaline organic equivalent in to the base mix before potting. PH and dissolved salts are vitally important to organic growing too as semi-permeable membranes, osmosis, and PH ranges affecting internal plant chemical reactions and hence metabolic processes are vital processes of living. It is not that it doesn't apply but that can also be useful, in a addition to normal organic techniques, to get an even clearer picture.

 

[MileHighGuy]

The jist of my earlier reply was that this is most likely a rootzone issue than a pest issue still stands.

Yeah, I don't see any pests either.

My techniques are suited to hydro and hybrid but still give one valuable information in organic

Your comments are knowledgable and probably well applied to hydro and hybrid. But not here in the organic section. It's just confusing things.

Keep it all simple.

He didn't tell us anything about his soil mix or what he is using for amendments and or nutrients if any.

He is using an airpot, most likely rules out the over watering.... but again, he would know if the pots are heavy and water logged.

Roting roots, unbalanced compost mixes and unhealthy micro flora will all affect the PH.

Rotting roots? Maybe, but you wouldn't need any meters to tell you that.

Unbalanced Compost? Test the compost first by planting directly into it... if a tomato plant grows well in it, then it's safe to use in your soil mix. You don't need a meter to tell you that your compost sucks before you add it to soil.

We are just looking at things different.... Take one look at the whole plant, understand it's environment completely and the soil that is in.... then you won't need PH or EC at all.... and none of the organic growers that I know ever use those measurements, so they must be crazy.

If you had never grown with hydro or nutrients, then the whole EC and PH thing would be out of sight out of mind. You'd have to look at the plant and tell from general observations.

If the soil is alive and full of life, there really isn't a reason for the PH or the EC.... unless you are using nutrient bottles and still trying to flush etc.

would show that the drying cycle is too extreme and/or rootzones or pots etc are drying out too quickly

again you don't need a test, or any meter to tell this shit.... it's just gardening 101.

You don't want any sort of wet dry cycle.

The OP would also benefit from a top mulch that would further help reduce those swings and get the moisture level to balance out for a more healthy and living soil.

PH and dissolved salts are vitally important to organic growing too as semi-permeable membranes, osmosis, and PH ranges affecting internal plant chemical reactions and hence metabolic processes are vital processes of living. It is not that it doesn't apply but that can also be useful, in a addition to normal organic techniques, to get an even clearer picture.

What are you talking about? We just have majorly opposing views.

The Plant can and will control the PH of the rizosphere. Getting a soil full of life is much more important than testing ph.


Here as a quote from Elaine Ingham that I do like:

"Re: [compost_tea] Re: Understanding chemical/biological control of soluble nutrients

In the chemical world, the emphasis has been on what controls taking nutrients from the available form, in solution, to the absorbed form, tied-up on the surfaces of sand, silt, clay, and organic matter.

Plants can only take up the soluble form. Once a nutrient is in a tied-up form, the plant can't get that nutrient.
In the strictly chemical world, the only control on how much nutrient is tied up, or how much is in solution, is knowing something about pH.
But in the real world, you have roots and the food web. What is the action of the soil food web on nutrient cycling?
Another strictly chemical approach that has been brought up, but hasn't worked particularly well in the real world, is to add a soluble form of a salt, something that has a higher affinity for the binding sites on the clays, in order to "knock off" the element in question.
Really stupid way to try to deal with anything, because there is no way to "knock off" just one nutrient. And of course the now soluble salts leach out of your soil. So, not only did you whammy any life in that soil, microbial, plant or otherwise, but you causing a whole herd of some important chemicals to leave the soil, forever gone downstream.
Not too bright.
But in a strictly chemical world, what other ways could you affect nutrient availability or too-much nutrient? OK, pour the nutrients on in high concentration..... we all know that is destroying our ability to have clean water to drink.
Luckily, only in highly controlled lab conditions can anything remain strictly chemical. Life will find a way. Can we speed up biology getting back into really bad conditions? Yep,that's what compost, extract and tea are all about.
Once you add biology back into the mix, that whole pH story gets thrown out the window.
Once you begin to understand that organisms will pull any nutrient off ANY surface, and convert it from one form to another, releasing plant available nutrients, right where the plant needs them, then the whole loading-chemistry-on approach to doing things will be thrown out. Messing with pH is NOT the way to do anything!
Once you realize which organism is really in control of nutrient availability in soil, and which sets of organisms it is controlling, you start to understand that the destruction of soil life that occurs when the strictly chemical approach is used has resulted in the mess our "modern" agriculture is in.
I gave a talk at ACRES USA several years ago on this topic, just when I was beginning to figure out this whole chemistry relationship with biology. I've never spoken at ACRES again, because I upset some people with that talk. It has taken me some time to really work through the whole chemical damage situation. I'm not saying I have it all figured out yet, but I'm getting more of the pieces put together.
In a decent soil, where nutrient cycling hasn't been utterly destroyed, where nutrient holding ability has not been lost, and where compaction issues have not resulted in soil pH down at 3 or 4, you have all the nutrients you need, for MANY years. There is NO NEED to add inorganic fertilizers to most of the cropland in the US. Or Australia. Or South Africa, or any desert, or ....wherever.
There are a few places where the soil has been so utterly destroyed that nutrients really are gone. So looking back at what has happened to your soil in the past is necessary. If you start a program with your closest SFI lab, we go through checking that out with you.
Now, the chemical salesmen always like to say, "But you are removing nutrients everytime you harvest, and therefore, you have to replenish the nutrients you take off".
Now wait, the amount of biomass that is locked up in a forest each year, a healthy forest, is more than the harvested materials removed from most corn fields, or crop field. But the forest isn't running out of nutrients.....the forest keeps growing next year.
Look at the low, low, low nutrient concentrations in most forest soils.
Have some fun with your chemical salesman.....tell them you have a new field and want his recommendation, and send a healthy soil sample in, and watch him go ballistic! You can't possibly grow anything in this soil, you will have to put on tons and tons and tons of nutrient to make this a productive soil.
But the forest is growing more plant material on an annual basis, than is removed from a productive crop field. Explain that. Where are the nutrients coming from in that forest? No one is putting fertilizers on that forest......
Every year, the bedrock breaks down and releases more sand, silt, and clay. The mineral nutrients in your soil are replaced every year because the sand, silt and clay are replenished. Does anyone out there lack bedrock under their soil?
The year you run out of sand, silt and/or clay in your soil is the year you will need to use more compost to replace the nutrients removed in harvest.

1 ton of compost per ac (2.5 tons per hectare then) - properly made, the real stuff, not the putrid,black stuff - co ntains all the nutrients in greater amounts than normal production needs. Make sure you have some N-fixing bacteria in that compost, so maybe an understory of clover or vetch or trefoil or cyanobacteria might be needed to provide N, but between the soil and biology, nutrient cycling supplies everything the plant needs.
The controller of the system, if the right biology is in place, is the plant.
Stop working so hard.
Put your labor force back in place. Balanced for the plant you want.
I try to explain all this, and the way agriculture fell into the chemical place it has been for the last 50 years, in the 3 day intro courses I teach. It has taken awhile to put all this together, and I am sure I don't have all the rough edges polished off yet. People ask me questions and sometimes I have to think about them for awhile. But with thought, and understating how the system works, a few little tests of biology and chemistry working together, and the way it works in a healthy system gets clearer and clearer.
Inorganic fertilizers give really good results IF THE BIOLOGY IS WORKING WELL. There is no need for any inorganic fertilizer if the biology is healthy, and functioning correctly. But, one tillage event too much, one chemical insult too much, and the down ward spiral is on. Lack of nutrition in food, pollution of water, elevated carbon in the atmosphere are a result.
Elaine R. Ingham
President, Soil Foodweb Inc."

 

[canna woop!]

Some soaps like green ones (Eco friendly) we use are alcohol based. I would not think spraying plants with it is suggested.

 

[MileHighGuy]

Just grab some Dr. Bronners Castille soap.

Use the baby mild if you don't want an odor... and then you can add your own essential oils and switch it up everytime.

Otherwise just grab the peppermint cause it's awesome.

 

[Granger2]

MileHighGuy,
I own a pH pen, but I've never tested runoff. I do test my water to keep an eye on the pH that swings between 7.8 and 8.3. I grow in coco and it is more important than in soil. Low strength nute mixes or teas is what I'm referring to.

EC wouldn't fit in with organics, but I'm saying that it's just terminology. Some people would use the term low EC as synonymous with low strength, even though it's really not something you can measure with an EC meter with organics. I agree that it could be confusing to beginners. Good luck. -granger