Lol sorry D, I was skimming responses for runoff and missed the slurry test. Thanks for sharing the method. Everyone else has detention for 15 mins after school.
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Jack's + CalNit in Coco Problems - Help!
- Thread starter FlowerFarmer
- Start date
Using the same ratios, I usually go 1.6 EC into flower, going as high as 1.8-2.0 at key times. Never have seen any indications of over feeding.
I am sending in water samples to JR Peters, and plan on having them make me a custom mix. I know you get me ideal ratios of NPK in my thread before, but its so buried by now lol!
If you could create your perfect ratio of salts, what would they be? I am now on well water (400' down), and don't need to RO unit anymore, so I figure why not utilize the good stuff in the water...
D
DHF
Pretty sure on the first page I called ph issues AND upping the ec with calc/nit per D9`s info in another thread , and.....
To DO that would require checking runoff ec and ph Bobbles , so I ain`t showin up for detention.....
....now.....
Core ph and ec in coco is what matters cuz runoff has new and old shit mixed together , so if it`s a question of "needing" to know , the slurry test is the only way......
Pumps that leak oil suck FF......getchas a kickass pond pump that`s completely sealed and be done with it.....All that excess RH goin out into the basement can only be dealt with by a dehuey , unless yas can divert it , or re-use it in another room....things to ponder plus howta do it.....
Here`s hopin yas got a cheap ass scope at radio shack by now and bugs aren`t in the picture....Said it earlier and Arm and Otis both said up the ec , but I`d use the calc/nit to up the ppms and see how they react Bro......
Mag def shows up as interveinal chlorosis and yellowing as to where calcium def shows up as rust spots and purple stems/petioles......anyways.....
Good luck....DHF.....
.....
To DO that would require checking runoff ec and ph Bobbles , so I ain`t showin up for detention.....
....now.....Core ph and ec in coco is what matters cuz runoff has new and old shit mixed together , so if it`s a question of "needing" to know , the slurry test is the only way......
Pumps that leak oil suck FF......getchas a kickass pond pump that`s completely sealed and be done with it.....All that excess RH goin out into the basement can only be dealt with by a dehuey , unless yas can divert it , or re-use it in another room....things to ponder plus howta do it.....
Here`s hopin yas got a cheap ass scope at radio shack by now and bugs aren`t in the picture....Said it earlier and Arm and Otis both said up the ec , but I`d use the calc/nit to up the ppms and see how they react Bro......
Mag def shows up as interveinal chlorosis and yellowing as to where calcium def shows up as rust spots and purple stems/petioles......anyways.....
Good luck....DHF.....
.....Born Loser
Member
Had a crop last spring looking just like that. Chased the fuckin pH all over, no dice. Plants finished good for the most part (yield and smoke wise)- but the leaves looked just like yours at first and got a lot worse.
As I was dumping the rootballs out after Harvey, they were covered in root aphids.
Never had any flying insects- never saw a bug at all till I dumped em.
I was pissed, but still yielded around a g/watt, so it definitely wasn't a loss.
Next crop was coco--never had a single issue with them. I was definitely afraid they would return though!
Best of luck. Check one of em head to toe for any creepycrawlers.
As I was dumping the rootballs out after Harvey, they were covered in root aphids.
Never had any flying insects- never saw a bug at all till I dumped em.
I was pissed, but still yielded around a g/watt, so it definitely wasn't a loss.
Next crop was coco--never had a single issue with them. I was definitely afraid they would return though!
Best of luck. Check one of em head to toe for any creepycrawlers.
B
bigbufu
I know my rating on the side says newbie but please no judging. I agree with DHF and everyone else that it does look like a PH issues. Flowerfarmer I would suggest as everyone else has to check double check everything from RH down to PPMS and PH. Now flowerfarmer if everything is in check and i mean you triple checked everything, i always use my hanna meter and its been a lifesaver but their has been some occasional times where it needs a cleaning and will read ph off. I know bluelab is a good brand but i always double check my ph by using the ph drops and color test as reassurance after my meter reads my potions i mix in my lab. Now here comes the bad news Flowerfarmer if everything seems to be in check I one hundered percent agree with Retro that you have some kind of pest, and Im with him that it looks like broadmite damage. I looked at the fourth photo you posted and there are some leaves that are straight funky and curl out like a hook. When the RH and everything is in point thats a straight giveaway. It blows yes, ive been fighting broadmites for the past year and a half and am finally getting the hang of handling things and will be posting up my first journal soon. I would get a microscope as Retro said and sit there I dont care if it takes you hours as I sat on my desk and spotted the phony bugs sunbathing loving life I saw eggs but I wanted to see the bastards so I spent hours finding one. The way your leaves look are way to funky and im definitely leaning towards the BM's. If you dont have the chems to fight these ****s like Shadowstorm talks about in the BM thread...avid...forbid..etc. then I would forsure give them a heat treatment as Retro suggests in his thread. I see a big difference after a good solid heat treament at 45- 1 hr of 115F with the plants in the room yes i said with your ladies in the room they will be fine and thank you. Ive had BM's and agree with retro that unless the population is getting out of control you can only see a couple of budsites that have brown tipped pistils while other budsites will be doing fine. You will definitely find out by week 3 if you have BM's as your budsites will looked like someone gave them a jacked up crew cut... the pistils look like a god damn pinecone and it blows. Get on the heat treatment asap and thank retro and stormshadow for their knowledge that they both have blessed us with here on IC MAG. It saved my life as I almost gave up on growing as I questioned my skills. Thank good that did happen. Youll get by it flower farmer im here if you need any help we all are.
-AJ
-AJ
Yo ff...
I have recently switched over to jacks / calcnit combo at 1.2 ec as well running 80/20 perlite coco ratio.... Everything was looking sexy as tits 10 days ago under t5s... As soon as I transplanted I put them in my vertical veg room with 2k, and am experiencing problems very similar to yours.. Twisted growth, mis shaped leaves, slight yellowing, stunted growth... The humidity isn't where it needs to be but my ph and everything has been calibrated, checked and rechecked...
I don't think I have bugs, I did a very through kill/ cleanse leading up to the transplant... May try bumping mutes to 1.5 or 1.8 as I also just started using r.o. And I'm wondering if this could be a cause... Watching to see how you fix it !
I have recently switched over to jacks / calcnit combo at 1.2 ec as well running 80/20 perlite coco ratio.... Everything was looking sexy as tits 10 days ago under t5s... As soon as I transplanted I put them in my vertical veg room with 2k, and am experiencing problems very similar to yours.. Twisted growth, mis shaped leaves, slight yellowing, stunted growth... The humidity isn't where it needs to be but my ph and everything has been calibrated, checked and rechecked...
I don't think I have bugs, I did a very through kill/ cleanse leading up to the transplant... May try bumping mutes to 1.5 or 1.8 as I also just started using r.o. And I'm wondering if this could be a cause... Watching to see how you fix it !
SRGB
Member
FlowerFarmer:
Hey all, this should likely go into the Coco forum, but I'm going to post here because the vertical section is more my home as well as there seem to be more here running Jacks 5-12-26 + CalNit.
Got some clones in coco after a brief hiatus and having the same old struggles. I told myself I was done with coco my last grow and here I am again stuck in another rut. I've got a lot going on so I'll use the next couple of posts to show you've what I've got happening.
I clone in rooters, and go into party cups under T5s. Typically everything looks flawless here and most of my problems arrive soon after hitting the HPS room.
Everything gets Jacks + CalNit start to finish EC of 1.2
I mix 130g of Jacks into 50-55 Gallons of RO. After that is dissolved I add 86g of CalNit.
The worst.
My sealed/co2 vertical room stuck in a major rut. Plants been limping along looking like this. They've blown up so I had no choice to turn to 12/12. Normally If I'm experiencing slight trouble the plants will snap out of when going to 12/12. Doesnt seem to be the case this time.
These plants have been put on blumats as of the 12/12 flip, but have been hand-watered daily prior. 1.2 EC to quite a bit of run-off each time. I thought for sure we'd see these ladies smile upon 12/12 flip and blumats, but they seem to be still angry with me.
Hi, FlowerFarmer.
Nice gardening.
Calcium can be a very reactive element. It can precipitate (convert into microscopic solid particulate) within a solution, perceptibly invisible to the gardener.
From what we could gather calcium is predominantly immobile in the plant or tree, moving with water through the xylem up through the plant. Due to its limited immobility within the plant, calcium deficiency (in the plant, not necessarily in the mixed solution) might tend to display yellowing in the leaves at the tops first.
The issue might not necessarily be media at all. It could be that the mixing of the calcium within the base solution might cause precipitation, leading to the gardener inputing the appropriate amount of calicum into the solution, yet the same calcium could be converted to a solid (insoluble to plants` roots) within the solution.
pH might be a factor in that a more alkaline pH might also make iron less soluble as well, potentially appearing identical to calcium deficiency to the gardener. However, iron deficiency might rapidly turn leanes to gold, then brown as necrosis progresses.
Possible solutions might be
a) Mix calcium nitrate in an extirely separate tank;
b) Feed calcium separately from the base solution (NPK-MG-S), for greater solubility potential;
c) Apply a) and b) approximately weekly;
d) Lower input pH of the base mix to approximately 5.0-5.5; as nitrate based fertilizers, generally, raise the pH of the media and solution roots come in contact with through the process of cation exchange. See, in brief bobblehead's organic bedroom of high brix gardening (#261).
e) Adequate dehumidification. As calcium travels with water, that water is emitted into the surrounding micro climate around the plant during transpiration. Dehumidification might assist the transpiration process by extracting the water vapor around the plant or tree and encouraging water uptake from roots, up through the plant or tree and out of the leaves, in a `circuit`;
f) Once leaves become damaged, reparing them might be difficult. Removal of damaged leaves (though the leaves in the illustrations did not appear to be severely necrotic) might encourage new and healthy growth, and limit the energy the specimen directs to reparing old leaves (which appear to become less efficient at photosynthesis the more mature they might be);
g) Continue to alternate feedings of 1) calcium (i.e.g., calcium nitrate, etc.) and 2) base nutrient mix, ideally (especially in coco coir), at pH 5.0-5.5 (as coco might tend to have a `natural` pH of 6.0 or more alkaline), influencing the cation exchange of the media and the solution when in contact with roots.
Additional notes.
h) Calcium nitrate is generally packaged by itself, i.e., in a separate bag from N-P-K-MG-S (`base solution`) bags. The mfg`s then provide general instructions for mixing calcium nitrate with the base solution. The gardener might, unintentionally, omit reflection on the notes within the mfg`s documentation relevant to mixing calcium with a base solution - concerning concentration ratios and the potential for precipitation occuring, yet those notes might be useful to examine.
i) Some dry nutrients might be pre-packaged with both calcium and the base solution in a single bag. The gardener might notice this and proceed without immediate awareness of the mfg having coated the contained calcium portion of the dry mix with a `slow release` formula that might be intended to effectively `slow release` the calcium within the base solution so that the chemical reactiveness of the calcium portion does not immediately precipitate (form a solid) within the solution. Greenhouse fertilizer delivery systems might be examined further; it might be that a fair number of facilities practices still delivery calcium separately from the base solution. Dry calcium forumulated for mixture with a base solution might still have some form of `coating`, even if the packaging might not list that, or the coating agent might not be readily apparent as synthesized for that purpose. The individual mfg might have further details of their formulations.
j) Coco coir can become `wet` within the center of the container, altering the dynamics of cation exchange processes. Perhaps watering only once per 24 hr. period might permit a greater amount of oxygen (an essential element) within the plant or tree holding vessel. With relatively larger plants or small trees, perhaps 1-2 gallons of water or solution per day might suffice. The exact amount of water or solution can be calculated, and only that amount provided for the given period; that discussion is perhaps beyond this post, but might examined further at our article Drain To No Waste Methods, and Low Tech Gardening Methods, if applicable.
We would probably explore alternative mediums for `active` delivery systems, having a greater physical capacity to thoroughly drain out of the plant holding vessel. Some of the supplied solution could become `saturated` within the center of the coco coir mass, and simple form into solids as the pH increases within the media due to cation exchange, effectively not being `replaced`, even though `fresh` solution might be supplied actively - due to the `wet` conditions of the media. Both pumice and perlite are predominantly inert (do not directly affect pH or solubility of solution), drain well, and can be reused.
There can be `EC` (electrical conductivity) without thorough solubility within a solution (see linked post, above). Measuring the differences between input pH, run-off pH - and - media pH (from the center of the plant holding vessel) might provide some data sets to examine, if any. Those data sets could then be cross checked against other applicable environmental variables.
There should generally be no differences between handwatering and feeding through active recirculation - save for the potential for build up of reactive chemicals inside of the pumps or feed lines (i.e.g., calcium and iron deposits). When we experimented with active recirculation and SRBGB`s we would swap the entire active system (pumps, feed lines, etc.) every 7-10 days, to limit imperceptible chemcical compound build up.
This is by no means intended to be a conclusive or exacting post about the topic, only our prelimary observations of possible causations and, or potential options that could further explored by the soilless gardener.
We hope that this post might be helpful.
Best,
/SRGB/
Hey all, this should likely go into the Coco forum, but I'm going to post here because the vertical section is more my home as well as there seem to be more here running Jacks 5-12-26 + CalNit.
Got some clones in coco after a brief hiatus and having the same old struggles. I told myself I was done with coco my last grow and here I am again stuck in another rut. I've got a lot going on so I'll use the next couple of posts to show you've what I've got happening.
I clone in rooters, and go into party cups under T5s. Typically everything looks flawless here and most of my problems arrive soon after hitting the HPS room.
Everything gets Jacks + CalNit start to finish EC of 1.2
I mix 130g of Jacks into 50-55 Gallons of RO. After that is dissolved I add 86g of CalNit.
The worst.
My sealed/co2 vertical room stuck in a major rut. Plants been limping along looking like this. They've blown up so I had no choice to turn to 12/12. Normally If I'm experiencing slight trouble the plants will snap out of when going to 12/12. Doesnt seem to be the case this time.
These plants have been put on blumats as of the 12/12 flip, but have been hand-watered daily prior. 1.2 EC to quite a bit of run-off each time. I thought for sure we'd see these ladies smile upon 12/12 flip and blumats, but they seem to be still angry with me.
Hi, FlowerFarmer.
Nice gardening.
Calcium can be a very reactive element. It can precipitate (convert into microscopic solid particulate) within a solution, perceptibly invisible to the gardener.
From what we could gather calcium is predominantly immobile in the plant or tree, moving with water through the xylem up through the plant. Due to its limited immobility within the plant, calcium deficiency (in the plant, not necessarily in the mixed solution) might tend to display yellowing in the leaves at the tops first.
The issue might not necessarily be media at all. It could be that the mixing of the calcium within the base solution might cause precipitation, leading to the gardener inputing the appropriate amount of calicum into the solution, yet the same calcium could be converted to a solid (insoluble to plants` roots) within the solution.
pH might be a factor in that a more alkaline pH might also make iron less soluble as well, potentially appearing identical to calcium deficiency to the gardener. However, iron deficiency might rapidly turn leanes to gold, then brown as necrosis progresses.
Possible solutions might be
a) Mix calcium nitrate in an extirely separate tank;
b) Feed calcium separately from the base solution (NPK-MG-S), for greater solubility potential;
c) Apply a) and b) approximately weekly;
d) Lower input pH of the base mix to approximately 5.0-5.5; as nitrate based fertilizers, generally, raise the pH of the media and solution roots come in contact with through the process of cation exchange. See, in brief bobblehead's organic bedroom of high brix gardening (#261).
e) Adequate dehumidification. As calcium travels with water, that water is emitted into the surrounding micro climate around the plant during transpiration. Dehumidification might assist the transpiration process by extracting the water vapor around the plant or tree and encouraging water uptake from roots, up through the plant or tree and out of the leaves, in a `circuit`;
f) Once leaves become damaged, reparing them might be difficult. Removal of damaged leaves (though the leaves in the illustrations did not appear to be severely necrotic) might encourage new and healthy growth, and limit the energy the specimen directs to reparing old leaves (which appear to become less efficient at photosynthesis the more mature they might be);
g) Continue to alternate feedings of 1) calcium (i.e.g., calcium nitrate, etc.) and 2) base nutrient mix, ideally (especially in coco coir), at pH 5.0-5.5 (as coco might tend to have a `natural` pH of 6.0 or more alkaline), influencing the cation exchange of the media and the solution when in contact with roots.
Additional notes.
h) Calcium nitrate is generally packaged by itself, i.e., in a separate bag from N-P-K-MG-S (`base solution`) bags. The mfg`s then provide general instructions for mixing calcium nitrate with the base solution. The gardener might, unintentionally, omit reflection on the notes within the mfg`s documentation relevant to mixing calcium with a base solution - concerning concentration ratios and the potential for precipitation occuring, yet those notes might be useful to examine.
i) Some dry nutrients might be pre-packaged with both calcium and the base solution in a single bag. The gardener might notice this and proceed without immediate awareness of the mfg having coated the contained calcium portion of the dry mix with a `slow release` formula that might be intended to effectively `slow release` the calcium within the base solution so that the chemical reactiveness of the calcium portion does not immediately precipitate (form a solid) within the solution. Greenhouse fertilizer delivery systems might be examined further; it might be that a fair number of facilities practices still delivery calcium separately from the base solution. Dry calcium forumulated for mixture with a base solution might still have some form of `coating`, even if the packaging might not list that, or the coating agent might not be readily apparent as synthesized for that purpose. The individual mfg might have further details of their formulations.
j) Coco coir can become `wet` within the center of the container, altering the dynamics of cation exchange processes. Perhaps watering only once per 24 hr. period might permit a greater amount of oxygen (an essential element) within the plant or tree holding vessel. With relatively larger plants or small trees, perhaps 1-2 gallons of water or solution per day might suffice. The exact amount of water or solution can be calculated, and only that amount provided for the given period; that discussion is perhaps beyond this post, but might examined further at our article Drain To No Waste Methods, and Low Tech Gardening Methods, if applicable.
We would probably explore alternative mediums for `active` delivery systems, having a greater physical capacity to thoroughly drain out of the plant holding vessel. Some of the supplied solution could become `saturated` within the center of the coco coir mass, and simple form into solids as the pH increases within the media due to cation exchange, effectively not being `replaced`, even though `fresh` solution might be supplied actively - due to the `wet` conditions of the media. Both pumice and perlite are predominantly inert (do not directly affect pH or solubility of solution), drain well, and can be reused.
There can be `EC` (electrical conductivity) without thorough solubility within a solution (see linked post, above). Measuring the differences between input pH, run-off pH - and - media pH (from the center of the plant holding vessel) might provide some data sets to examine, if any. Those data sets could then be cross checked against other applicable environmental variables.
There should generally be no differences between handwatering and feeding through active recirculation - save for the potential for build up of reactive chemicals inside of the pumps or feed lines (i.e.g., calcium and iron deposits). When we experimented with active recirculation and SRBGB`s we would swap the entire active system (pumps, feed lines, etc.) every 7-10 days, to limit imperceptible chemcical compound build up.
This is by no means intended to be a conclusive or exacting post about the topic, only our prelimary observations of possible causations and, or potential options that could further explored by the soilless gardener.
We hope that this post might be helpful.
Best,
/SRGB/
Last edited:
Thanks for all of the advice and kind words.
Been away for the last 48 hours so haven't done much in way of changing things.
What I did have time to do:
- Dropped my blumat res to 5.3 pH, it's reading 5.7 the following morning/current. Planning to drench them with a mix of this lower pH, but for now i've only had time to allow the blumats to do their thing.
- Did a slurry test out of one of my uglier vertical plants. I just dug down a solid scoop of coco and combined it with my RO water (same size scoop). Slurry measured out at exactly 6.0 pH, however it had a EC of 0.8. (while being fed 1.2 - 1.3 EC). Does this indicate that I am in fact feeding too weak for my conditions or opposite since it was mixed with an equal volume of RO water?
- Scoped my leaves with a 60x scope, but didnt see anything. Checked around for a while and pretty confident I'm not seeing anything on the leaves.... at least not with a 60x. I am however seeing some very very tiny white pests in my coco. You'll see them with the naked eye only after brushing some coco around.... scrambling to take cover. They are white, very tiny, and resemble something much like a spider mite.
I don't have fungus gnats, nor havnt for a long long time. I see no other sign of visible pests, and have pulled relatively success crops having noticed them before. Are they the source of my problem, or merely a harmless soil mite? No flyers ever seen, nor any carcass or pests discovered in previous root balls.
Still pretty stumped. Tomorrow I'm going to try and hand drench everything good with a slightly higher EC (1.5 - 1.6 EC) / lower pH.
Yesterday my sealed space was running around 78F , 60% RH. Current readings are same temp, but RH is 45%. I realize the RH could optimally be a bit higher, but certainly 40-60% shouldnt be any source of my troubles here, should it?
Been away for the last 48 hours so haven't done much in way of changing things.
What I did have time to do:
- Dropped my blumat res to 5.3 pH, it's reading 5.7 the following morning/current. Planning to drench them with a mix of this lower pH, but for now i've only had time to allow the blumats to do their thing.
- Did a slurry test out of one of my uglier vertical plants. I just dug down a solid scoop of coco and combined it with my RO water (same size scoop). Slurry measured out at exactly 6.0 pH, however it had a EC of 0.8. (while being fed 1.2 - 1.3 EC). Does this indicate that I am in fact feeding too weak for my conditions or opposite since it was mixed with an equal volume of RO water?
- Scoped my leaves with a 60x scope, but didnt see anything. Checked around for a while and pretty confident I'm not seeing anything on the leaves.... at least not with a 60x. I am however seeing some very very tiny white pests in my coco. You'll see them with the naked eye only after brushing some coco around.... scrambling to take cover. They are white, very tiny, and resemble something much like a spider mite.
I don't have fungus gnats, nor havnt for a long long time. I see no other sign of visible pests, and have pulled relatively success crops having noticed them before. Are they the source of my problem, or merely a harmless soil mite? No flyers ever seen, nor any carcass or pests discovered in previous root balls.
Still pretty stumped. Tomorrow I'm going to try and hand drench everything good with a slightly higher EC (1.5 - 1.6 EC) / lower pH.
Yesterday my sealed space was running around 78F , 60% RH. Current readings are same temp, but RH is 45%. I realize the RH could optimally be a bit higher, but certainly 40-60% shouldnt be any source of my troubles here, should it?
Thanks for all of the advice and kind words.
Been away for the last 48 hours so haven't done much in way of changing things.
What I did have time to do:
- Dropped my blumat res to 5.3 pH, it's reading 5.7 the following morning/current. Planning to drench them with a mix of this lower pH, but for now i've only had time to allow the blumats to do their thing.
Try keeping your ph between 5.5-6, ideally it should be allowed to float through this range (i.e start at 5.5 and allow it to drift upward to 6.0 before adjusting to 5.5 again.) I wouldn't bother with the drench as your ph is close to fine already. If your water is too stable to drift much, aim to stay right at/around 5.8 ph.
- Did a slurry test out of one of my uglier vertical plants. I just dug down a solid scoop of coco and combined it with my RO water (same size scoop). Slurry measured out at exactly 6.0 pH, however it had a EC of 0.8. (while being fed 1.2 - 1.3 EC). Does this indicate that I am in fact feeding too weak for my conditions or opposite since it was mixed with an equal volume of RO water?
Yup, you need to bump up the feed is exactly what that's telling you. Mixing media and RO/distilled water in a 1 to 1 ratio gives you the most accurate picture of what your media is actually seeing. In this case your media is 0.8EC and ph of 6. Bump feed to 1.5EC and see if that doesn't solve your issues
- Scoped my leaves with a 60x scope, but didnt see anything. Checked around for a while and pretty confident I'm not seeing anything on the leaves.... at least not with a 60x. I am however seeing some very very tiny white pests in my coco. You'll see them with the naked eye only after brushing some coco around.... scrambling to take cover. They are white, very tiny, and resemble something much like a spider mite.
I don't have fungus gnats, nor havnt for a long long time. I see no other sign of visible pests, and have pulled relatively success crops having noticed them before. Are they the source of my problem, or merely a harmless soil mite? No flyers ever seen, nor any carcass or pests discovered in previous root balls.
Still pretty stumped. Tomorrow I'm going to try and hand drench everything good with a slightly higher EC (1.5 - 1.6 EC) / lower pH.
Yesterday my sealed space was running around 78F , 60% RH. Current readings are same temp, but RH is 45%. I realize the RH could optimally be a bit higher, but certainly 40-60% shouldnt be any source of my troubles here, should it?
You don't look to be having VPD issues, so no RH isn't likely a big issue. Though you really should work on getting it locked in better for the sake of dialage
D
DHF
As I said earlier per the purplewreck`s I ran with twisted leaves , some plants are just more ph and ec sensitive and it showed up in my rooms as twisted leaves.....but no rust spots and yellowing off......AND.....
Some plants are cal/mag hogs in coco and need the bump/increase to be all they can be by end of cycle .......
Core ph and ec test plainly shows 400 ppm`s/.08 ec dropping and 6 ph is rising , so the plants are eating and transpiring IME.....but.....
Yoyo-ing up and down RH during veg through end of stretch ain`t a good thingy , so put the pond foggers in the budget since you run a decent size setup , and 70% RH consistently will make your bottom line increase once dialed guaranteed....
Below 50% after end of stretch will help yas , but letting it go up and down TILL swellage affects transpiration and nutrient uptake guaranteed...seen it too many times over the yrs.....
The taco-ing in the first pics plainly show increased transpiration , and as D and I both said , coco`s a bitch ta dial with smaller plants , much less the monsters you`re runnin.....now....
Rootzone critters.....In coco trust NO critters.....Innoculate your medium BEFORE planting with SM-90 @ 5 ml per gal and keep it in the feed EVERY feed......anyways....
Up the cal/mag Bro , and get rid of the critters......other than that plants look healthy....Get rid of the fucked up necrotic leaves and control RH through end of stretch......and....
With dialed environment all things are possible........and ...How could anyone know if they had broadmites based on dead and gone pistils on plants that have none.....regardless.....
Hope shit gets back to normal Bro.....Don't sweat the little things....I like how you stay on top of the plants as in "pro-active" instead of "re-active" once shit gets outta hand.....
100 power scope at radio shack`s cheap for insurance to be sure of no microscopic critters....handle it....
Respect...DHF.........
Some plants are cal/mag hogs in coco and need the bump/increase to be all they can be by end of cycle .......
Core ph and ec test plainly shows 400 ppm`s/.08 ec dropping and 6 ph is rising , so the plants are eating and transpiring IME.....but.....
Yoyo-ing up and down RH during veg through end of stretch ain`t a good thingy , so put the pond foggers in the budget since you run a decent size setup , and 70% RH consistently will make your bottom line increase once dialed guaranteed....
Below 50% after end of stretch will help yas , but letting it go up and down TILL swellage affects transpiration and nutrient uptake guaranteed...seen it too many times over the yrs.....
The taco-ing in the first pics plainly show increased transpiration , and as D and I both said , coco`s a bitch ta dial with smaller plants , much less the monsters you`re runnin.....now....
Rootzone critters.....In coco trust NO critters.....Innoculate your medium BEFORE planting with SM-90 @ 5 ml per gal and keep it in the feed EVERY feed......anyways....
Up the cal/mag Bro , and get rid of the critters......other than that plants look healthy....Get rid of the fucked up necrotic leaves and control RH through end of stretch......and....
With dialed environment all things are possible........and ...How could anyone know if they had broadmites based on dead and gone pistils on plants that have none.....regardless.....
Hope shit gets back to normal Bro.....Don't sweat the little things....I like how you stay on top of the plants as in "pro-active" instead of "re-active" once shit gets outta hand.....
100 power scope at radio shack`s cheap for insurance to be sure of no microscopic critters....handle it....
Respect...DHF.....
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FlowerFarmer, are the horizontal and vert rooms using the same containers? How much depth of coco do the tree containers have? Are you using the 7 gals with tailpieces still? What are the horizontal room containers like? Just wondering because overwatering could be a possibility with the shallow 7 gal containers.
Otherwise could the air be a possibility? If the sealed room is having problems but the ventilated room isn't. An off gassing product or something.
Regarding the house humidity. Sound like you're going to have to lower the humidity... if it's +50% humidity at 80F then the rest of your 66F house is going to be at sky high house damaging humidity.
Could you make a partial outdoor air intake?
What I do is... the grow room intake comes from one end of the house and exhausts into the other end. I keep the house room temp between 65-70F and the humidity between 40-60%.
Above 60% at room temp is the danger zone IMO. Lower on really cold days. So the grow room stays around 80F with 30-45% humidity with lights on. The negative pressure in the grow room causes a small but significant amount of outdoor air to leak in through the cracks. This keeps the air of the house fairly fresh and has a modulating effect on the humidity. (lowering it in winter, while raising it when the heat pump is drying out the house in summer)
Otherwise could the air be a possibility? If the sealed room is having problems but the ventilated room isn't. An off gassing product or something.
Regarding the house humidity. Sound like you're going to have to lower the humidity... if it's +50% humidity at 80F then the rest of your 66F house is going to be at sky high house damaging humidity.
Could you make a partial outdoor air intake?
What I do is... the grow room intake comes from one end of the house and exhausts into the other end. I keep the house room temp between 65-70F and the humidity between 40-60%.
Above 60% at room temp is the danger zone IMO. Lower on really cold days. So the grow room stays around 80F with 30-45% humidity with lights on. The negative pressure in the grow room causes a small but significant amount of outdoor air to leak in through the cracks. This keeps the air of the house fairly fresh and has a modulating effect on the humidity. (lowering it in winter, while raising it when the heat pump is drying out the house in summer)
Are you diluting the calcinit into water before adding it to your rez? If you re adding the powder directly into the res, sure chance of precipitation.
Another issue is that in coco you want to feed less potassium, and jacks has quite a bit. Too much potassium will lock out calcium, giving the symptoms you are seeing. As the plant is older this gets worse and worse as K keeps building up in the medium. I would flush them with plain 6.0 water and then feed them 1.2 again and see what happens. Sorry but you would have to switch nutrients to get around this issue, or perhaps cut back on the jacks hydro during veg (go equal parts jacks:calcinit instead of normal 3:2 ratio for hydro).
But it could also be the crawlies - could be beneficial soil insects you see or something nasty like root aphids. In any case I would hit them with some bayer complete in early veg from now on to get that out of the way before you go into flowering.
Another issue is that in coco you want to feed less potassium, and jacks has quite a bit. Too much potassium will lock out calcium, giving the symptoms you are seeing. As the plant is older this gets worse and worse as K keeps building up in the medium. I would flush them with plain 6.0 water and then feed them 1.2 again and see what happens. Sorry but you would have to switch nutrients to get around this issue, or perhaps cut back on the jacks hydro during veg (go equal parts jacks:calcinit instead of normal 3:2 ratio for hydro).
But it could also be the crawlies - could be beneficial soil insects you see or something nasty like root aphids. In any case I would hit them with some bayer complete in early veg from now on to get that out of the way before you go into flowering.
Just wondering if you ever got this taken care of FF?
Heres a little story;
My girls were vegging at a homies house while i got my rooms built, wired etc.
They were sitting in his garage under 4000W of HPS... No climate control, no intake, no exhaust, just a lighting controller, 4 ballasts and a garage. 24 hours of light per day
When i first took them over as clones, they were looking fine. After repot to 5 gallon containers they looked like shit for almost 2 weeks. then they took off for 4-6 weeks and actually grew to be pretty sexy bushes..
Then it got cold. REALLY cold. Even with the 4 lights- no insulation in the garage- it got cold in there. the plants started to get really droopy(looking like your pics)..(almost exactly like your pics)..
I finally had enough, and went and picked my girls up before my room was ready b/c i knew that even a half finished veg room is better than a 40 degree garage..
Anywho, after i took them home, they developed a shit done of deficiencies, (some bluish/purple leaves which i have never seen before), etc.
Im almost positive it was the cold---made it impossible for them to eat because they were just too cold...
Anyways, got the bitches home, gave them a nice flush, and then started back on the 1.2 jacks diet..
After 3 days, i checked my runoff - PH 6.4, ppm 220...
A little high, and a little low - Slurry test time ---
ph 5.9, ppm 200..
Perfect - Little low
So I upped jacks to 1.5 ec, and we'll see how they respond. I'll post pics in this thread in a day or two.
Just hoping for an update from you
Heres a little story;
My girls were vegging at a homies house while i got my rooms built, wired etc.
They were sitting in his garage under 4000W of HPS... No climate control, no intake, no exhaust, just a lighting controller, 4 ballasts and a garage. 24 hours of light per day
When i first took them over as clones, they were looking fine. After repot to 5 gallon containers they looked like shit for almost 2 weeks. then they took off for 4-6 weeks and actually grew to be pretty sexy bushes..
Then it got cold. REALLY cold. Even with the 4 lights- no insulation in the garage- it got cold in there. the plants started to get really droopy(looking like your pics)..(almost exactly like your pics)..
I finally had enough, and went and picked my girls up before my room was ready b/c i knew that even a half finished veg room is better than a 40 degree garage..
Anywho, after i took them home, they developed a shit done of deficiencies, (some bluish/purple leaves which i have never seen before), etc.
Im almost positive it was the cold---made it impossible for them to eat because they were just too cold...
Anyways, got the bitches home, gave them a nice flush, and then started back on the 1.2 jacks diet..
After 3 days, i checked my runoff - PH 6.4, ppm 220...
A little high, and a little low - Slurry test time ---
ph 5.9, ppm 200..
Perfect - Little low
So I upped jacks to 1.5 ec, and we'll see how they respond. I'll post pics in this thread in a day or two.
Just hoping for an update from you
You might just be on to something here with ratio being off for coco vs. hydro. I'm using jacks and cal-nit both at 2g per gal. for coco. This creates a profile very similar to h3ad's recipe. Working very well for me thus far. Though anytime I stray to far from this profile I have lockout issues. Something to look at if things aren't yet were they should be.
Just helped a friend with the same problem actually. The cold prevented the roots from uptaking nutes and as a result nute buildup caused lockout. Just had to flush well, then and start feeding at 1.5EC to compensate for the CEC disruption. Probably take a week for them to completely bounce back, but you'll be just fine.
That was my exact diagnosis, and my exact response. Plants are looking awesome (as compared to 3 days ago), and in the proper environment (veg room @ 74 degrees f, 64% humidity) they have perked right back up.
Also brewed some tea, and did a couple feedings (3 days apart) as well as did a couple tea foliar feeds. everything seems to be responding well.
Thanks for all of the replies. I haven't got much time right now, but here are some pictures.
The sealed tree room continued to progress through flower, and while the leaves always looked a little janky, they ended up looking pretty good bud wise. Unfortunately I made a near fatal mistake one night. The shelf that my upper reservoir was sitting on was starting to sag quite bit so I wanted to flip the board around. I turned the valve completely off that fed the upper res so that it's water level would drop enough for me to lift it up. I then forgot about it and went about my night. This was on a Monday.
Because everything was on blumats I didnt even so much as peak into the room until Friday... everything was limp and dead, or so I thought. I mean.. they hadn't had any water for 4-5 days. Frustrated as hell I turned off the lights (except for a fluoro) and drenched them all by hand.
When I returned to the room the next morning, surprisingly they had perked back up. I've been picking tons of dead leaves out of them ever since, but they're going to make it!! I'm sure yield will be down quite a bit, but they actually recovered pretty good. I've been hand-watering them since... trying to pick and thin them a little each time I'm in there.
Lesson learned (and almost a very expensive one).. despite automation.. Go into the room every day!
EDIT, not having any luck uploading images today from my shitty hotspot wifi. I managed to get 2 uploaded.. I'll have to try the others later.
Few more weeks on these. Flipped on the 1st of Nov so they'll likely be coming down shortly after the New Year along with the other 4k horizontal room. I'll try to show some shots of that room later on.
The sealed tree room continued to progress through flower, and while the leaves always looked a little janky, they ended up looking pretty good bud wise. Unfortunately I made a near fatal mistake one night. The shelf that my upper reservoir was sitting on was starting to sag quite bit so I wanted to flip the board around. I turned the valve completely off that fed the upper res so that it's water level would drop enough for me to lift it up. I then forgot about it and went about my night. This was on a Monday.
Because everything was on blumats I didnt even so much as peak into the room until Friday... everything was limp and dead, or so I thought. I mean.. they hadn't had any water for 4-5 days. Frustrated as hell I turned off the lights (except for a fluoro) and drenched them all by hand.
When I returned to the room the next morning, surprisingly they had perked back up. I've been picking tons of dead leaves out of them ever since, but they're going to make it!! I'm sure yield will be down quite a bit, but they actually recovered pretty good. I've been hand-watering them since... trying to pick and thin them a little each time I'm in there.
Lesson learned (and almost a very expensive one).. despite automation.. Go into the room every day!
EDIT, not having any luck uploading images today from my shitty hotspot wifi. I managed to get 2 uploaded.. I'll have to try the others later.
Few more weeks on these. Flipped on the 1st of Nov so they'll likely be coming down shortly after the New Year along with the other 4k horizontal room. I'll try to show some shots of that room later on.
The best lessons cost a lot of money bro. 
good to see you pop in. Don't be a stranger.
good to see you pop in. Don't be a stranger.
just looking at the plants and i am pretty sure it an over/under fert problem
if you look how all the large fan leaves are kinda sagging, they also look like they are no longer soft and flexible but rather a bit firm and rough to the touch...add that to the burnt/crisped edges, and you got an over fert problem...
first things you will see when you have a salt build up are a P, K def...K regulates water uptake within the plant and also regulates the respiration/water transfer in the leaves...usually when you see the combo of P, K, Ca...means you got lockout, usually from over feeding for a while and having it build up in the medium....
