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big plant ppk

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delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
hey flat9, where are we on the questions?

i pay $10 ea for my tubs from tractor supply. if you build the tailpiece like mine above you will have 6" total, which is sufficient to tune any air gap without exposing the tube end.
 
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delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
the first plant is 6 weeks from an un-rooted cutting. it's 36" tall, there's a yardstick resting on the medium.

just a group shot showing how the room is set up now.

the next two are Cannafornia Seeds "Border Haze" seedlings.

last a 2 week old cutting that is obviously rooting in place.
 
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delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
a container full of napa 8822.

this cutting is the meristem from the 36" plant above, topping the plant. for reference the container is 22" wide.

after trimming the cut to size.

i scarify the tip from where the exacto knife is to the bottom of the cut.

a 15 sec dip in a 10% dip-n-grow solution and stuck in a finger hole to the right depth.

not a single failure yet.
 
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Grow4Flow

Member
flat9 said:
Good call Grow4Flow. Any reason why this wouldn't work?

http://www.amazon.com/Laguna-Lily-Planting-2-Inch-9-Gallon/dp/B000J3FW10/

I have Amazon Prime so I could get it in 2 days and not pay for shipping. It seems like a good price. The Tuff Stuff 7 gallon tub is about 20 bucks on Amazon, and also not prime eligible so it'd be like 30 in total...
Click to expand...

flat,
here's one i shared in Deserts thread. I got these in 4 days delivered to the west coast from the east coast AND.....they are only $7

But i think what you found would work perfectly fine as well.

http://www.greatplainshardware.com/search.php?search_query=kmd102
 
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flat9

Member
Questions galore:

Tailpiece -- You seemed to say 6" is sufficient to "tune any ... " and this is the part I got a little lost. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying you fine-tune the air gap to see how the plants respond, and if you have 6" worth of wiggle room so the sweet spot has to come before 6"? I think this is what you were saying, which .... unfortunately leads to a whole 'nother set of question marks. What, scientifically speaking, does the air gap do and why is it necessary to have 3" vs 4" (or whatever the optimal amount seems to be)? What's happening here?

Pulse Feed Times -- Also, since we're talking about making things optimal and getting all scientific, what's the downside to having a pulse feed that takes 2 minutes to fill the tub rather than less than a minute? How did you find the "optimal" times.

Air-filled Porosity -- Also on the optimality tip, what's the reasoning behind 30% air-filled porosity being optimal as opposed to another value? Is this porosity value not related to your pulse feeding times in some shape or form?

Buckets -- why did you go for the smaller ones? Anything wrong with 5 gallons?

LEDs -- I did see a post on hydrogrowled.com regarding higher yield from their LEDs than the same power for a fuller spectrum white-based LED. Take it with a grain of salt, though, because they are obviously selling something. Still, when you say that "the plant has evolved to use all of the 400 - 700 nm spectrum," are you referring to cannabis in general, or the particular strains you're growing which have been growing inside, or what? This seems to fly in the face of all the talk of PAR ratings which seem to be all the rage these days. By no means, by the way, am I saying you're wrong, just that it seems to not be consistent with a lot of marketing re: LEDs.

Apologies for being such a n00b. I just really want to understand all I can about this system. Looks sweet and can't wait to get one running. And thanks again for all of your help. I appreciate it.
 
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delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
"quote by flat9"

"Tailpiece -- You seemed to say 6" is sufficient to "tune any ... " and this is the part I got a little lost. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying you fine-tune the air gap to see how the plants respond, and if you have 6" worth of wiggle room so the sweet spot has to come before 6"? I think this is what you were saying, which .... unfortunately leads to a whole 'nother set of question marks. What, scientifically speaking, does the air gap do and why is it necessary to have 3" vs 4" (or whatever the optimal amount seems to be)? What's happening here?"

in any choice of medium with the correct particle size the forces of cohesion and adhesion create a "perched water table" or PWT. a layer of solid water in the bottom of the container.

it is the existence of the PWT that causes watering techniques to be used that limit or inhibit growth.

or cause concentration of nutrient salts in the medium.

in this device the PWT is mechanically removed from the main root chamber by the tailpiece after each watering event.

in conventional containers this PWT can only be eliminated by transpiration and evaporation.

the PWT will exist at the same height in any container using the same medium. so both a short fat container and a tall thin container will have a 1.5" PWT with turface

but the volume of the PWT will be much greater in the short fat container. this is why, in the nursery industries, commercial containers are always taller than they are wide. because they do not deal with the PWT other than to let the pot dry down.

the act of watering is much more than a delivery service for water and nutrients. it is also an exchanger of gases. co2 out and fresh o2 in.

so, in this device, because you are watering 16 times per day instead of just once or twice, the gas exchange rate is much higher. this acts to remove inhibiting hormonal signals.

by using the tailpiece we are removing the artificial "floor" of the container and removing the PWT from the main chamber and moving it into the tailpiece, where it will exist at the same height but will have a much smaller volume.

taking an 18" in diameter container as an example we see that it has 9x9x3.1416 = 254.46 sq inches of surface area x 1.5" (depth of PWT) giving a PWT volume of 381.70 cu inches / the constant 231 (number of cu inches in a gal) we end up with approx 1.65 gals of medium retaining water in the root zone after each watering.

by moving the PWT down into the tailpiece which is only 3" in diameter, you get, using the same math, a total of 10.6 cu inches of PWT or .045 of a gal or 5.76 oz's as compared to 211.2 oz's.

since the PWT will exist at the same height using the same medium creating an air gap above the "controlled water table" that is taller than the height of the PWT you have successfully removed the PWT from the main root chamber.

further, by manipulating this air gap up and down you can fine tune the capillary rise potential up or down. you observe the plants and they look a little too wet so you increase the air gap by moving it downward or raise it to increase moisture.

the goal of all this manipulation is to maintain the root zone in the most "ideal" state for the largest percentage of time.

creating an "ideal" interface between water, nutrients, air, and roots for a greater time frame over the finite life of the plant.
 
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delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
quote by flat9

"Pulse Feed Times -- Also, since we're talking about making things optimal and getting all scientific, what's the downside to having a pulse feed that takes 2 minutes to fill the tub rather than less than a minute? How did you find the "optimal" times."

not much downside except i feel that the faster you get the pulse and drain accomplished the more time the root zone is in that "ideal" band.

as long as you keep times within a minute or two.

any longer and i feel, based on experience, that you are creating a set of down regulating hormonal signals.

we are doing a bit of root trickery here. in fast moving hydro apps we see folks growing a lot of "water type" roots and very little "air" type roots.

here we are purposely limiting the "water" roots and trying to enhance the growth of the "air" type roots in order to better utilize the greater o2 content of ambient air.
 
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delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
quote by flat9

"Air-filled Porosity -- Also on the optimality tip, what's the reasoning behind 30% air-filled porosity being optimal as opposed to another value? Is this porosity value not related to your pulse feeding times in some shape or form?"

the air filled porosity represents the void space that will be occupied by fresh air after each pulse.

there is a balance in this device between the optimum void space and capillary rise potential.

the greater the void space the lower the capillary rise potential and vice versa.

this is a redundant device that is capable of feeding the plant two ways. from the bottom passively and from the top actively.
 
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delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
quote by flat9

"Buckets -- why did you go for the smaller ones? Anything wrong with 5 gallons?"


you can use either but these letica brand buckets from us plastics are 90 mil and very strong and the 3.5's are all you need.

the home depot and lowes promo buckets are only 70 mil and very lightly built.
 
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delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
hey flat9, i'm going to dodge the light conversation right now because i have too much other stuff going on and just don't have the time for it.

but lighting is actually my favorite area after hydraulics.
 
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flat9

Member
Great and very informative replies. Thanks for letting me tap into your wealth of knowledge. Take your time on the lighting stuff... Look forward to learning more.
 
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Grow4Flow

Member
delta9nxs said:
the fitting fully assembled.

you need a 3.5" hole for the fitting.

this requires a bucket lid with a 4.25" hole in it to keep it centered.
Click to expand...


Ugh! i'm such a dumb ass, i went and cut the holes before verifying that i can get these fittings locally, now i will have to find somewhere online as neither my Home Depot or Lowes carries them
 
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delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
Grow4Flow said:
Ugh! i'm such a dumb ass, i went and cut the holes before verifying that i can get these fittings locally, now i will have to find somewhere online as neither my Home Depot or Lowes carries them
Click to expand...

these are electrical conduit fittings and are found in electrical not plumbing. i have never been in a lowes that did not have them.

if for some strange reason your lowes does not have them you can get them at any local electrical supply store.
 
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Grow4Flow

Member
yeah, i combed both stores and even asked but was told the largest they carry is 2" fittings, i'll have to find an electrical supply store

Are your fittings Carlon or Cantex?
 
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flat9

Member
Also D9 when you get a chance, why did you go with the Hortilux? I've seen they have the best PAR ratings but they're also priced four times as high as other HPS bulbs (e.g., Apollo Hort's bulbs ... see Amazon). Given that HPS bulbs usually lose reds after a year, seems like any slight loss in PAR wouldn't make up the difference...
 
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delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
Grow4Flow said:
yeah, i combed both stores and even asked but was told the largest they carry is 2" fittings, i'll have to find an electrical supply store

Are your fittings Carlon or Cantex?
Click to expand...


strange, i have four stores within about 30 miles of my house and they all have them.

the mail fittings are carlon and the females are cantex.
 
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