big plant ppk

[flat9]

Hey D9 forgive me for asking things that are undoubtedly already answered in this thread, but it's quite massive and honestly a bit hard to muster through. I was hoping, if you wouldn't mind, answering the following ... or if anyone else in this thread who knows could do me the favor!

wick: What media do you use for the wick? Coco?
plant media: Is the top growth tail thingy filled with Turface MVP? Or is that something else? I presume you somehow got rid of all the smaller pieces and just kept the bigger stones?
pumps and feeding: How often do you turn that pump on and what are its ratings in terms of gph? I presume dissolved oxygen is created as the water falls through the media, yes?
PPK vs DWC: Any reason why, other than what admittedly looks like a much more convenient system, you'd use this kind of set up over recirculating DWC? In particular, is more dissolved oxygen created by this kind of feed than with
-- MH for Veg: It looks like you've got a 1000 watt HPS in that veg chamber. Any reason why you didn't use MH which has more blues which I presume would be better for veg? Maybe it doesn't make a difference but still would love to know your thinking on this.

Anyway it's truly a beautiful setup and an inspiration to see your great work. Thanks for being kind enough to share it with us...

 

[Desert Hydro]

wick: the wicks are the same media as up top
plant media: napa floor dry #8822 or turface etc
pumps and feeding: every 90 minutes, enough to flood about an inch over the media or so
PPK vs DWC: in dwc if you lose power you risk losing everything due to plants sitting in stagnant solution. in a ppk it does not sit in water and would be able to wick up moisture in event of power outage.

im sure theres more to it than what i stated but thats the simple answer

 

[flat9]

Thanks desert hydro. I appreciate it man! I'm currently using RDWC but to be honest I feel like it is too much worry in particular if there is some sort of outage just as you mentioned. I also don't like running air pumps and water pumps 24/7, as I'm adding an extra 300 watts or so which doesn't seem very efficient. Additionally the air stones and what not are costly.

And apologies -- having gotten to page ten or so I did in fact see that you're using Turface, D9. I presume "MVP" is the kind you're using? There are a few on the website -- MVP, pro league, quick dry.

So D9 or Desert Hydro , how far into the water should the PVC wick go? I see that D9 recommended a water level 3 inches from the top of the bucket. Is the PVC wick length longer than that such that the bottom of it is submerged?

 

[flat9]

Hey D9 is this the top tub you're using?

http://www.tufftubs.com/htdocs/plinbowl.htm

The 7 gal one?

 

[flat9]

And finally D9 , do you mind explaining that float valve mechanism a bit more? It seems that you're saying that the pump in the main reservoir tote is so powerful that it drains the tub, and you've created some contraption that prevents the tote from filling too quickly such that

If I'm correct so far, the next part I get lost at is what precisely you made there. It seems like you have attached a piece of Rubbermaid tupperware around the float valve, and this piece of tuperware has a couple of tiny holes or something at the bottom so that the flow is reduced? Am I correct? Forgive me if this all seems a bit rudimentary I just want to make sure I understand your system before I go off making any mistakes! Thanks....

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Yes, you've got it correct..


The float allows the "pulse reservoir" to be topped up by the "bulk reservoir" above.

The tupperware's purpose containing the float valve is to slow that water level within the tupperware from dropping so that during a pulse/feed cycle the system isnt topped off with unneeded water before the solution has a chance to return to the pulse res.

Simply put.. it prevents the system from being topped up rapidly during the feed cycle but allows to the system to slowly top up when it actually needs replenished due to evaporation/plant consumption rather then just when the water is just on it's short journey through the pots during a feed cycle.



Hope that helps.
PS - Yes, I believe those are the exact tubs we are using here.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Loving the fatty tailpiece. My 2013 PPKs are already becoming outdated and I havn't even got a chance to run them with turface/floor dry yet. lol...


Alien, the urinal juice boxes are hilarious, but I'm liking what I'm seeing. Looks like they hang pretty perfectly with them there kiddie pools.


Excited to run some 8822 next run after I finish another stubborn coco crop. Swung by a Napa to grab some more bags today and they've got NONE! Floor dry is either a hot item this time of year or there has been an unusual increase in demand lately.. hmm.. hopefully they get more in soon and don't hike the price on us.

I always find it interesting to wonder if companies "feel" these little pushes in demand when their products are plugged somewhere or otherwise discovered for alternative uses . Not that is likely anywhere near the case/truth here with Napa, but fun to think about none the less.
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[delta9nxs]

quotes by flat9

“Hey D9 forgive me for asking things that are undoubtedly already answered in this thread, but it's quite massive and honestly a bit hard to muster through. I was hoping, if you wouldn't mind, answering the following ... or if anyone else in this thread who knows could do me the favor!”

“wick: What media do you use for the wick? Coco?”

the tailpiece is the wick as well as the drain and it should be filled with the same substance you are growing in. although some very nice plants have been grown in coco we recommend a non-compressible medium like turface, diatomite, or pumice.

“plant media: Is the top growth tail thingy filled with Turface MVP? Or is that something else? I presume you somehow got rid of all the smaller pieces and just kept the bigger stones?”

the tail thingy is the wick/drain. Each choice of media should be subjected to an air filled porosity test to adjust the AFP to approx 30% in this device. I've personally used a bunch of different substances and have settled on straight turface or DE such as the napa 8822 product. Using the air filled porosity test you can adjust the medium for both drain speed and capillary capability, if necessary.

“pumps and feeding: How often do you turn that pump on and what are its ratings in terms of gph? I presume dissolved oxygen is created as the water falls through the media, yes?”

this is going to be difficult to answer as you have some basic misconceptions about how this device operates.

First, the term “dissolved oxygen” applies to the oxygen content in the nutrient solution.

While the o2 content of the solution is critically important in rdwc or uc's or other forms of high speed recirculating hydro it is not applicable here as the device derives most of it's o2 from the ambient air, not the nutrient solution.

This is why you don't need a chiller. There is very little root material in full submersed contact with the solution and therefore very little biological demand. Therefore very little depletion of the o2 in the solution.

It is lack of oxygen not warm solution that causes root rot.

The very act of cooling the solution retards growth. My reservoirs run at 80-84f all the time and air temps of 80-88f are maintained. With co2. Growth is crazy. In more than 4 years I have never had a single case of rot in this device.

about pumps. my pump is a mag drive 2400 and is way too big but i set up initially for 24 plants. but practically i think a pump with a capacity of about 200 gph per plant position using my current containers would be sufficient.

my pump fires 16 times per day for 20 seconds each time for a total daily run time of 5.8 minutes. so it really doesn't use much electricity to operate the largest pump you can.


“PPK vs DWC: Any reason why, other than what admittedly looks like a much more convenient system, you'd use this kind of set up over recirculating DWC? In particular, is more dissolved oxygen created by this kind of feed than with”

the dissolved o2 is not important here and the system is far more reliable than dwc or uc. In most hands it produces more weight also.

In any technique we can find examples of folks who are maestro's or aficionado's in their particular technique. So they do well. But most people have a long and steep learning curve to get over before they can produce reliably.

With this device there is virtually no learning curve if built and operated properly.

“-- MH for Veg: It looks like you've got a 1000 watt HPS in that veg chamber. Any reason why you didn't use MH which has more blues which I presume would be better for veg? Maybe it doesn't make a difference but still would love to know your thinking on this”

yes, that's a 1k horti. I consider the vegetative period to be critical to yield. Here we are training and shaping the plant to get what we want from it.

The plant does not just use the chlorophyll a and b peaks. It has evolved to use all light in the 400-700 nanometer range but some frequencies more then others. This is why the future of led growing will be focused on “white” light and not specific frequency emitters.

I like to veg with the same spectrum and intensity I flower with but also in that room are daylight flo's which are also helping to shape the plant. Not much brute force but a big plant shaping tool nonetheless as they help to change the red/far red ratio sub-canopy. Eliminating or reducing shading.

“Anyway it's truly a beautiful setup and an inspiration to see your great work. Thanks for being kind enough to share it with us... “

thank you!

 

[SecondAttempt]

Floor dry is either a hot item this time of year or there has been an unusual increase in demand lately.. hmm.. hopefully they get more in soon and don't hike the price on us.

I always find it interesting to wonder if companies "feel" these little pushes in demand when their products are plugged somewhere or otherwise discovered for alternative uses . Not that is likely anywhere near the case/truth here with Napa, but fun to think about none the less.
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I've always wondered if companies pull products when we start using them for growing... there have been so many older threads for DIY projects and when I try to build them the materials are no longer available. Although I've also noticed when they are available they cost more than the thread said they should, that may just be inflation though.

As far as NAPA hiking the price... there are corporate owned stores and independently owned stores... independents would hike the price, but they would need to be on here recognizing their opportunity to fuck us. As is, my local independent doesn't know me so he overcharges me anyhow for 8822 which is why I on't be using it anytime soon unfortunately.

They probably had a shop buy them out of 8822, NAPA has a great distribution network though, I'm sure they'll have it back in stock within a day or two.

 

[flat9]

Thanks for the answers D9! I see what you mean about DO not being relevant given that the plant is sucking up nutrients from the medium and not from being soaked for a long time directly in the solution itself.

That being said, I still have a few questions which I hope you won't mind answering:

Wick/tailpiece : How far should this extend into the water in the bucket below the tuff stuff tub? I know you said 3 inches for an air gap between the water level and the bottom of the tuff stuff tub, but how far does the tailpiece itself extend into the water, or does it even matter provided at least some of it is submerged?
Tuff Stuff Tub: What size is this? Is it the 7 gallon?
Bucket Size: any downside to using 5 gallons rather than 3.5s? I ask because the 5 gallons cost $2.78 at Lowes whereas the 3.5s cost about twice as much.
Air Porosity: I found the test in the thread, thanks. I'm curious what 30% seems to be the magic number, though. What's the reasoning? Trial and Error?
Power in Flower: What are you running in that flower room for your 10 spots? 4 x 1000 hung vertically?

By the way, regarding LEDs, I did see a post on hydrogrowled.com regarding higher yield from their LEDs than the same power for a fuller spectrum white-based LED. Take it with a grain of salt, though, because they are obviously selling something. Still, when you say that "the plant has evolved to use all of the 400 - 700 nm spectrum," are you referring to cannabis in general, or the particular strains you're growing which have been growing inside, or what? This seems to fly in the face of all the talk of PAR ratings which seem to be all the rage these days. By no means, by the way, am I saying you're wrong, just that it seems to not be consistent with a lot of marketing re: LEDs.

Anyway, thanks again for your inspiring work and sharing it with us all on here... it's truly appreciated.

 

[Desert Hydro]

jesus christ, d9 just wrote a novel lol. thats what i like about the vert guys, always willing to help out.

i forsee that urinal juice box setup around the rim of a laundry basket with a pump/dripper manifold inside and the rim of the basket loaded with about two dozen 18" single cola budsicles with a 1k dropped down in the middle tearing it up!!!

go alien go

 

[flat9]

i thought i'd take a moment to explain my posting situation. about 4 weeks ago i began a new hep c antiviral therapy. i have gotten progressively more ill as a result and my latest blood work shows me turning somewhat anemic.

i am very weak physically and am having trouble functioning but i am getting it all done, in pieces.

anyone needing help should post here to the general group rather than to me personally. i especially won't have time for long detailed responses in pm.

i've got 2 more months of this intense part and then a year of the balance.

at this juncture there are a lot of folks who understand this thing as well as i do and i'm sure someone will come along soon to answer your questions.

thanks

Just noticed this having finally got almost halfway through this monster thread! Hope you're doing better D9...

 

[flat9]

Okay on page 38 of 50 for me (I upped the number of posts to show on each page). D9 feel free to ignore the question on Tuff Stuff tub size. Now just wondering where I can find one of those things in the Seattle area...

 

[flat9]

Sorry I took so long, better late than never.

View Image

Mmmmm, donut, tasty.

 

[flat9]

finally starting to feel human again. thank you all again for the support!

here is the last plant to be grown using 2 lights. still the "dope" plant from drgreenthumb.

from now on the plants will be grown using 3 lights per plant. 5 plants staggered in between 5 1k's and 2 600's.

Lighting question answered on page 45!!! LOL. This thread is a monster.

 

[flat9]

Desert Hydro what did you use for the top container?

 

[Mister_D]

flat - tractor supply sells the upper 7 gal. containers (also come in other sizes). If you don't have a tractor supply nearby, you can go on their website (other sites may sell them cheaper) and order them. I believe they are made as feed dishes for cattle etc.

 

[flat9]

Thanks mister_D. I actually tried this already but I didn't see anything regarding shipping for these things. I'll try giving them a call but I got the impression that they don't ship. Am I wrong?

 

[Mister_D]

Thanks mister_D. I actually tried this already but I didn't see anything regarding shipping for these things. I'll try giving them a call but I got the impression that they don't ship. Am I wrong?

I know I read of at least one person ordering some. Now that I think about it, i'm not sure if they ordered from tractor supply or some other website. You might have to search around for another site that sells them, but i'm sure they can be ordered from somewhere.

 

[Grow4Flow]

Thanks mister_D. I actually tried this already but I didn't see anything regarding shipping for these things. I'll try giving them a call but I got the impression that they don't ship. Am I wrong?

Tractor Supply is pretty lame with customer service, I called two of my local TS stores to order and they were really rude saying that i need to create an account with a credit card, fax them my drivers license and wait for the 2-3 day approval process before i could order.

There are a number of other places to purchase them from, just google search "kmd102"