Hermies please explain them to me!

[Cosmic Surfer]

I keep getting them, and I grow a good variety of strains so it isn't that. I hear light leaks can do it, but there is a vent coming in where the light is very dim, like a nightlight behind a bookshelf kind of thing.

I also hear "stress", what exactly is that now? Can you list all possible sources of stress? Temps and humidity fluctuate with the ambient conditions outdoors and outside the grow space, but always within tolerable levels. Right now humidity is upper 30's-low 40's, temps can be in the low 80's or as low as the 50's but normally upper 60's to low 70's this time of year.

Basically, I am sick of getting seedy shit and want to know every possible cause and the solution.

Can you have absolutely perfect and dialed in conditions and still get hermies? Can any strain produce a fluke hermie under ideal conditions or is it just some, or none? My conditions are pretty good may need a little tweak here or there, well that's it
thanks

 

[justanotherbozo]

...it's amazing to me that someone who has been here for 7 years has been so lazy that they STILL don't know what causes hermaphrodites or how to prevent them from occurring in their grow.

hermies

Hermaphrodite

...the search function is your friend homey but it only works if you use it.

bozo

 

[Snype]

Seal that light leak and and be careful of the light being too close to the plant as well as the room being too hot or cold.

 

[Cosmic Surfer]

thanks snype. unless 82 in the worst case scenario is too hot, or 50's too cold, I am ok in that regard. I am more worried that the humidity is too low around 38%. To the previous poster, I wanted to at first curse you I must be honest for not giving a direct answer. But then you posted those links and well, I have to admit it was helpful. Still didn't tell me what I wanted to know but gave me ideas so thanks for that! I heard, for instance, that tents giving off gasses causes sick plants or something like that. I was wondering if plastic tubs I keep my plants in can cause the same effect and if that effect can cause stress and therefore hermies. Those tubs are black and come from lowes and well now I wonder. I have had hermies before, but not as bad as this, a few to occasionally moderate seeding, not like this time which is occasionally light seeding but mostly moderate to heavy. In the past, I may have made boneheaded moves that caused this, but this time I did not go in the room after hours or anything like that so it is really astonishing. That light leak issue was there before too but as I said never as bad as this time. I know there are other threads but my situation and questions are unique and hope I can get more feedback. thanks!

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

I've grown many plants in a Flood/Drain system using the 2' x 3' Centrex "Super Tubs" from Lowes. Intersex traits haven't been a problem at all in this set up.

Did have a terrible time once though with some plants from bagseed throwing nanners. Plants were thoroughly entwined into a screen of green and I had to remove half of them three weeks before harvest... lesson learned.

Many times in these threads I've read people mention problems arising from a red indicator light on a multi-outlet strip or other electronic device. I suggest that you spend a few minutes in your grow room during lights off and see what your plants are actually experiencing.

 

[stihgnobevoli]

i have grown a lot of bagseeds and a few bred strains and all un the harshest environment you can imagine. why? for science. i have seen very few hermies in my experience. in my own humble opinion based on my torture chamber and the plants that survived it. the biggest influence seems to be.

- in order of importance -
0.)Genetics*
1.) unsteady day/light length.
1a.) light leaks
-less than 2 but more than 1a.) Overfertilization/Underfeeding
2.) uneven watering. (plants getting too dry or staying too moist)

maybe causes.
3.) heat
4.) cold
5.) humidity levels


*forgot genetics. i was too lazy to go renumber it all


it seems the one thing all my hermies had in common was...NOTHING. so it's gotta be down to genes primarily. Had 1 grow with a buncha bagseeds and a G13BX/(IBL?). only hermy was the g13 male, grew a couple pistils.

had one plant from the same mom as the rest turn hermie. the rest of the conditions being the same for all.

had grows that were sooooooo terrible. yet no hermies.

the second most common thing i've seen that leads to hermies is dd light cycles. 12 hours dark one night, 16 the next, only 9 the day after. etc. you'll have a hermie in no time if it's in the genes.

light leaks can cause hermies, but the biggest danger i've found from light leaks is plants going back to veg. one of my friends grows. kept it in the garage and had a tiny light leak. told him to fix it, but no. whole grow revegged after week 6. which looked like week 3 plants from the light leaks. really delays flowering.

the next biggest thing is under or overferting. too much nitrogen or not enough flower nutes during flower aka same thing = slow flowering and possible reveg or hermying.

after all those come uneven watering. dry as hell sometimes, too wet and soggy other times. will not only delay flowering but also cause a lot of stress to plants. too moist if more dangerous than too dry unless it's too dry to the point where roots die. either case. dead roots = no uptake of water during critical flowering and swelling phase. low yield, revegging and slow flowering.

the rest have almost no bearing on hermying but usually effect flowering times and yield.

 

[Podink Stucky]

12 hours of darkness....Unless u are growing the seeds that your hermies produced. Id assume that the light leaks are the obvious culprit. Even the tiny little light on a digital heater can cause hermies. Shame on you if your looking at your babies when the sleep, but if you must or there is an emergency... green light is a good choice as the plants dont "see" this spectrum.

Also: hermies dont appear for about 11-15 days after light exposure in dark cycle.

 

[Avinash.miles]

there needs to be a sticky in the infirmary about hermies

there i said it

 

[Canniwhatsis]

All this crap about light leaks?

I've straight opened my light barrier for sake of taking pics (digital camera wouldn't focus without visible light). As have I accidentally left a zipper and flap undone over night. Yet I seldom experience hermies?

Flat out, if the red light on a power strip is your only light bleed and your plant herms your growing a shit genetic!!!

Yeah, I've had a nanner here and there (mostly bagseed or breed from bagseed) and I e certainly had a herm or two that would actually pollinate the whole room.

But mostly even with the light leaks, solid strains yielded solid results!

Another something for all you light leak theorists, if it were simply a light issue, why then would 2 clones cut from the same mother, one done indoor, the other outdoor in the middle of suburbia, display such different aspects?

Indoor was pitch assed black when the lights were off! Not so much as a pinhole of reflected incandescent light getting in. Yet this plant threw full on male flowers right next to the female flowers for the first 4 weeks of 12/12

Meanwhile, the outdoor plant is exposed to much wilder temperature swings, and a TRUCKLOAD of incidental light from HPS street lights less than 100 yards away never went herm?

Explain that!

You can beat these plants, and if they are a solid genetic it won't matter. If its a shit week genome, your pretty well fucked.

 

[Cosmic Surfer]

wow thanks for all the great feedback! I agree a sticky combining all previous threads on the subject would be helpful.
Crap genetics? Maybe but I don't think so. I have used/am using strains from Mr nice, fractal genetics, Grandaddy Purp Genetics, and seeds given over the years by well respected people. Grandaddy Kush, Strawberry Diesel Kush, Diesel Fire and Sour Diesel Kush, Critical mass, Cherry Slyder x Deep Chunk, and so on.

over/under watering and fert? Well that really hit me. Although I usually keep things evenly and properly watered, there have been a couple times where the plants started to wilt before being watered. Also water logged a couple times. Very rare though. I generally use recipe #2 in the Organics for beginners thread, but am re-using soil and not sure how much I have to add back. Sometimes, I add everything again as in the recipe, sometimes just ammend with worm castings. For fertilization, I use the dose it says on the bottle and use Trinity Bio Catalyst, Liquid Karma, Extreme Serene, high brix earth juice, Buddha Grow, and sometimes add in epsom and a little Peter's veg or bloom formula. I have heard you do not have to leach organic soil, but what about salt buildup? So I am sure I probably don't need all I listed, as I have had good luck once just using plain water most of the time with one run. Please help and don't be too hard on me! thanks

 

[pinkus]

check them every day. even if you get herms you can grow plants without seeds if you take the time to cut off stray male flowers.

good luck

 

[JVonChron]

a good question to answer is WHEN you experience the herm. Is it early on? or late into the flip. a lot of types will throw nanners at the end in an attempt to guarantee their procreation. ie- try to ensure future generations before they die cuz they know theyre dying. if its early on, I would predict genetic/light leak/ph issues. if its later on then that may also speak to genetic characteristics(I have noticed purple strains throw nanners at very end), but if it something that is pronounced among many different types, then I would deduce environment issues. or its one of those seeding to the rest. good luck. last ? do you get full blown mature beans or those little white premature ones?

 

[TheCleanGame]

Causes of Hermies that I've see:

Plants that have hermied

• No matter what: Bad genetics in them. They hermie in great conditions with no stress at varying times of the grow.
• When they became root bound
• When they were overfed
• When they were pH stressed
• When exposed to light leaks (lighting schedule changes)
• When they were harvested extremely late

LOW-humidity hasn't ever been a 'hermie' trigger that I've noticed... I've grown in 40% down to 15% for 10 years. Temps have always been in line for my grows so I don't know about temp as a trigger.

Keep it Clean!

 

[Cosmic Surfer]

I am usually good at spotting early herms, and males, although once in a while it is already starting to spill pollen. This time, I think I got all the males and 1-2 early herms in time. Then I kept checking day after day. Then I get busy and put down my guard. Then lots of seeds.

Where is the culprit I ask? I eventually find a full blown herm with many flowers and wonder how I didn't catch it sooner. Then I think I have everything. but like 90%+ of the herms I have had, I find some only at the final harvest with a few deeply imbedded or well hidden flowers. Some didn't seem to herm at all, but the majority did have 2-3 flowers. And the weird thing is, most are moderately or heavily seeded but some have just a few! Some of the seeds are well developed but like 2/3 are immature. I think seeds need a few weeks to develop fully and at least the first 2 weeks there was no seed, so I think it happened mid-way in like week 4 or so.

I have to develop a better system. I have plenty of seed so I want to grow as many at once as I can to select the best to clone, but I have netting over the tables and those black lowes tubs and basically have to keep pulling things out and crawl in on my back and get my head stuck in the netting to tend to things, or water with a plastic bottle on the end of a stick (no walkway, full room). I have health issues and maybe other issues as well, and reading takes me 4x longer than most and have so much to do, so searching countless threads and sifting out what is real or opinion and finding the info I need is nearly impossible. I am thankful I am getting the help I need here! thanks again

 

[Cosmic Surfer]

rootbound? That could be it too. But I remember seeing a thread where people grew plants at least 2-3 feet tall in coffee cups! Usually my plants take forever to grow, to flower, and to grow good roots despite good light and air conditions. But some I find after harvest were rootbound.

 

[stihgnobevoli]

oh yeah i forgot to touch on heat. heat does not seem to be a factor. my room is always...was anyway, no current growing or box. but my temps avg 85 or more up to 90. sometimes on really hot days it can go to 100. but usually between 80-90 degrees F. and still the frequency of hermies did not change. genetics was the biggest common factor.
besides genetics the biggest hermy factor was light. if it's not constant you will probably get hermies, or at the very least revegging plants. you can spot them by the rounded smooth edged leaves that suddenly start forming in your buds.

 

[JVonChron]

hmm...if no light leaks(be careful even that red led on power strips has given me issues) and no ph issues then I say its unstable genetics. In my experience ph issues led more to decreased yield/vigor then hermaphroditism{unless its way out of wack}. youre not using beans that are the product of these hermies are you? hermie plants that give off seeds pass the hermie trait with it. you need to take notes on which of the strains tend to hermie first. Do all of them hermie or just one hermie and beans develop on the rest? one hermie can seed all of the others if its in close proximity to all the true ladies. so one of these strains may be the culprit bangin all your other true females. how long of a dark period do you give before you flip? a sudden light cycle change might cause it? based upon your last statement it might be over watering. you don't want em drooping but rather fully dry before next water. roots grow in order to find water, so if there is an over abundance of water no real need to grow roots ya know. make sure there is also not residual pollen, do a wipe down with small concentration of bleach after pollens been released.

 

[TheCleanGame]

You've been hit by a wall of text for a total of 1200 pts damage...



You have died.

Keep it Clean!

 

[Cosmic Surfer]

no, not been using any seeds from the hermies besides one that grew out fine but that was a while ago. I find it mind boggling that some seem to torture their plants for pleasure or something and they have better results. I too experienced the same. I had better luck like 20 years ago by hanging a few flo shop lights uninclosed in a basement with junk strewn about than I had in this latest batch! I had timer issues before but this time I can guarantee everything was stable and fine, near perfect conditions at least 80-90 percent worth and no obvious issues. Did I say the power strips are under the table? So yeah to say I am shocked is an understatement and want to figure it out before I repeat this whole mess again! I am hopeful with your help this can happen. thanks!

 

[northerngrafta]

Something to consider for all seed buyers out there....... for those of us who have been growing for best part of a decade or more will have seed indoor cultivation change dramatically especially of late with legalisation... for me I started using factory lights then I found hydroponic shop/stores and it changed the game and as the hydroponic industry has become more and more commercialised more and more products have been released some of which have had an effect on how we grow...... so what you need to realise is that aswell as the hydro industry the seed industry has become commercialised. fact1 seed company use forums to virally market new strains fact2 seed company's photoshop images to make them appealing.
Consider this a decade ago let's say there was a million growers well I can guarantee the must be 10million now (example figures) well if ur company has 10fold demand yet legally u can't increase production by ten times u have a problem..... and so quality goes down years ago seeds were massive beans now they come like 10 little dots in a packet.. there will be people on this forum who know what I'm talking about excuse the rant but it's the truth that's why the best seeds these days come from the new seed banks prior to them commercialising.....seeds are rubbish now we need to bring back cutting/clone culture swapping genes is what it used to be all about