Failed grows, back to Canna Coco.

[RSA]

Started out growing with a recommendation of Canna Coco + FFOF.

I did 50/50, fed every other watering and had -some- problems with the grows, but not a lot.

I'm hearing different things - that Canna Coco should be used alone, and then you have to make sure there's runoff, drip systems even, fed every watering etc. I was told if I mixed in something like FFOF, it would eliminate -some- need for feeding so often.

Anyway, here's where I stand. Multiple grows since 2010 and I'm slacking, big time. Started with straight PROMIX BX. Plants were very unhealthy right after flowering, yellowed out and about died. I maintain temps @ 76-78deg, humidity was a bit low but nothing that should have murdered them! I was checking pH of runoff, pHing the water correctly, feeding with maxibloom you name it. Still had problems.

So, I've narrowed it down to these percentages (as percentage of problem) and I need some clear evidenced advice to get me on track because this next grow is crucial for me.

60% medium issues (lack of nutrients in medium, wrong mix, etc.)
20% grow room issues (temp fluctuations, low humidity, etc)
20% feeding incorrectly


I need a SOLID place to start out that won't give me too many problems. I am going to be running 3 BOG strains.

Due to my success with Canna Coco in my first grow, i mixed that with FFOF and had a nice result. When I switched to Promix BX that's when it went all downhill. I'm not extremely skilled on all the aspects of growing, so that's why I'm here - help!

- Canna Coco. I hear by itself it's very hard to manage (drip systems are required, daily feedings, runoff checks regularly, etc.) - but when I mixed this with FFOF, I didn't seem to have TOO many issues for my first grow. Is this type of mix recommended? I would like to use Canna Coco as a big part of my medium, having many failed grows with promix. Should I mix with FFOF? Any other brand recommendations? Also, what line of nutrients should be used and how often (screw maxibloom, too difficult!)

- Humidity: How can I keep my entire grow room (a room with 2 tents in it) at a certain percentage humidity? I had a cool mist one going, but with the 2 fans and the fact that the fans exhaust OUT of the room, the humidity never rose above 20%. Air is being exchanged too fast. How do you work around this?

- Using tap water - as long as it is pH'd correctly, could that be contributing to my problem say with other stuff in it like chlorine, heavy metals, etc? Do not have R/O system.


I'm sure more questions will come - thanks guys.

If it helps, I'm growing under 2 x 1000w and 1 x 400w, CMH in veg HPS in flower, growlab/homebox.

 

[Trend]

I would never mix coco and ocean forest. Ever.

 

[Aardwolf]

Nice Tent. Sounds like you have had a few issues along the way, nothing to worry about it's all learning. Most important of all is that you know where you went wrong, that way you can improve on things, as you grow more and learn more things you will become more efficient and things will be apparent after time.

First of all it's sorting the environmental issues out, that means warm bottoms and cool tops!

Hard to do in winter and summer!

Your media should be a quality soil or rather potting compost, I can't tell you which one it's up to you to decide on preference, if it were my choice it would be Bio-Bizz All Mix.

How many plants you grow is down to the available space and time between harvests, using common senece this can be calculated.

Ultimately you don't want massive numbers as it's an inconvenience and much more hassle when starting out.

The medium I select will only require water throughout the entire grow, to eliminate any possible shortcomings it is advise able to have some nutrient supplementation to apply a fertigation should a problem arise however they usually don't. I manage a balance by using large pots which gives optimum root mass and plenty of nutriment for the cycle the plans require to finish up, anymore is a waste.

As a feed I choose Maxicrop Organic Grow with Plant Extracts but it's up to you to decide on the feed that will do the job in hand and not have any issues. Basically a complete feed is what is required as this will be able to eliviate any deficiencies should they appear and bring a balance back to the rizosphere.

I advise with most Hybrids to feed the plants once a week in flower with a half recomended dose of a complete feed like 5-5-5 and add a PK booster once a week in the fertigation from week 2 onwards up to the last 3 weeks up before harvest, you don't need to do this every week if the pots are big enough but one or two feeds around week 3 and 6 can be of benefit to the crop.

I don't pH my feed or water, no need to in good compost with a proper feed.

I have good sucsess mixing Canna Coco with the Bio-Bizz to create the volume of media required to provide sufficient root mass to gain or up plant size, reducing peat in the mix is environmentally sound and helps the plants to finish off and yellow naturally at the end, the Coco boosts the roots and helps retain water and provide more oxygen to the roots. This is an effective method for growing quality Cannabis with only water needed for growth.

 

[drsmoke69]

people tell me pot in loose coco nothing else, make sure you rinse it well to get rid of any salt issues. feed 3 - 4 times a day until there's a good amount of runoff each time. make sure your drainage is good, never let pots sit in water. any nutrients will work, what i have read is canna nutrients work best in coco. i used to use maxibloom, great shit.

 

[Hammerhead]

I have mixed FFOF into coco many times with no issues. Theres something else going on it's not the mix of coco/FFOF..I use a mix of FFOF/HAPPY FROG/COCO..I run out of coco al the time so many of the plants just get FFOF/HF mix. If you must have a successful grow just use a mix like what im using don't use any coco..

 

[Coconutz]

Here are my coco suggestions
100% coco
water as often as possible(make sure you r usin the right size pots)
never more than 2.0EC
no additives
never ever ever listen to people online

 

[Lesterburnum]

Just try plain coco with canna one time. You'll never go back.

 

[otis33]

my experience is with straight coco, my suggestion would also be 100% coco or 70/30 coco/ perlite. get a coco nutrient like canna coco or h&g or even heads formula and feed 1.2 ec to start and you shouldn't have to go higher unless it looks like your plants need it. you must feed coco with every watering and water to a good amount of run off. if you don't want to water daily, which you really should, you can go with bigger pots-3to5 gal or bigger.

 

[papaduc]

You've been given bad advice mate. It's as simple as that.

Mixing amendments so you don't have to feed so often? nah, that's not the way I'd go with coco and I think most coco growers would agree. And all the stuff about drip lines etc... it's just not true. Whoever told you all that...

You can and will get great results using just coco, a pot, and some basic nutes... if you want to.

Everything you do except basic procedure is 100% optional and, if you haven't mastered the basics of coco, only increases the chance of problems.

With regard to procedure:

You don't need to measure run off. Ever.
You can if you want, but if you learn to accurately adjust your feeds based on the basic visual appearance of the plant, ie hungry vs overfed, and you've got good quality coco to begin with, you'll never need to.
Any run off measurements should be done before planting to test your newly bought media. After that, measuring run off is totally unnecessary.

You don't need drip lines or automated systems. They're optional. You can grow perfect healthy plants start to finish by hand watering a pot, and it doesn't need to be kept constantly saturated either.
We're not talking about absolute maximum yields. Like Otis says, if you've got big pots, you'll only need to water once every few days to maintain perfectly healthy plants.

With regards to nutes and feeding. Any good quality nute line used properly will give you good results. Use what's easiest. A simple 1-part $10 nutrient, used properly and at the exact level the plant requires, will give you better results than a complex array of of expensive ones which are not.

Check your tap water ec. If you've used it in the past with no problems it shouldn't be an issue and you shouldn't need to bubble it overnight.

Go back to the basics.

Get more coco, get a good simple base feed. Start feeding from the first set of leaves at 1.0 ec of starter feed or veg nutes at a ph of 5.6 - 6.0 and keep it at that til they show your they're hungry, then up it by 0.2. You shouldn't need to go higher than that in veg. I never have.

Maybe post a journal so people can guide you along the way.

Take care.

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

Use strait coco build a drip system... sleep at night... lol.. strait coco into 1 gal pots let it dry out like soil the first 2-3 times. From there start watering once a day. do that for 4 days then twice a day for 4 days... then 3-5 a day... for the rest of there lifes... keep the resevoir full and just use a base nutrient... i recommend heavy 16. Follow these rules.... have happy harvest.....

 

[otis33]

^^ sound advice. until you get a few successful grows under the belt stick with a simple base nute regimen. when you have a more dialed grow, then you can ftoy with additives if you want, but I've found that less w works best. the multiple feeds daily grows are for experienced growers trying to max out yields. hand watering will actually get you well acquainted with the plants and you will be more likely to notice a potential problem before it gets out of control. members here can be very helpful, so getting a journal going well benefit you greatly. good luck!

 

[RSA]

You've been given bad advice mate. It's as simple as that.

Mixing amendments so you don't have to feed so often? nah, that's not the way I'd go with coco and I think most coco growers would agree. And all the stuff about drip lines etc... it's just not true. Whoever told you all that...

You can and will get great results using just coco, a pot, and some basic nutes... if you want to.

Everything you do except basic procedure is 100% optional and, if you haven't mastered the basics of coco, only increases the chance of problems.

With regard to procedure:

You don't need to measure run off. Ever.
You can if you want, but if you learn to accurately adjust your feeds based on the basic visual appearance of the plant, ie hungry vs overfed, and you've got good quality coco to begin with, you'll never need to.
Any run off measurements should be done before planting to test your newly bought media. After that, measuring run off is totally unnecessary.

You don't need drip lines or automated systems. They're optional. You can grow perfect healthy plants start to finish by hand watering a pot, and it doesn't need to be kept constantly saturated either.
We're not talking about absolute maximum yields. Like Otis says, if you've got big pots, you'll only need to water once every few days to maintain perfectly healthy plants.

With regards to nutes and feeding. Any good quality nute line used properly will give you good results. Use what's easiest. A simple 1-part $10 nutrient, used properly and at the exact level the plant requires, will give you better results than a complex array of of expensive ones which are not.

Check your tap water ec. If you've used it in the past with no problems it shouldn't be an issue and you shouldn't need to bubble it overnight.

Go back to the basics.

Get more coco, get a good simple base feed. Start feeding from the first set of leaves at 1.0 ec of starter feed or veg nutes at a ph of 5.6 - 6.0 and keep it at that til they show your they're hungry, then up it by 0.2. You shouldn't need to go higher than that in veg. I never have.

Maybe post a journal so people can guide you along the way.

Take care.

VERY helpful advice, but a few more questions if you don't mind..

I never tested my tap water, aside from pH. I'm still learning, what exactly is "ec"? What do those numbers mean when you referenced it? If my water has too much chlorine or whatever, what is this bubbling you refer to? I have to lug 10ish 1 gallon jugs up a flight of stairs to water them, aside from leaving the caps off I'm not sure how I can fix anything with my water aside from an r/o..

Do you have any suggestions of a nute line specifically to use in tandem with straight canna Coco?

Also, I start from seed and usually just soak in water until they sink, plant and away they go. What medium is good to start seeds in? Just Coco? I'm concerned about them thriving during the seedling /veg stage and I'm not sure how I prepare a medium for that..

 

[canna woop!]

Try the straight coco, but also try a side by side with coco that is amended with ten percent forest compost, and five percent sand blend, as well as five percent minerals and plant meals. Coco is a rather decent medium for supporting the soil food web organisms and the plants. Just leave the mixture out side for a few months with a cover crop before planting the cannabis

The coco/fox farm mix you made could work in the future if you let it sit out in the rain and plant a cover such as peas or clovers and grass over it, it just takes time to wash the build up of synthetic fertilizer out and let the soil restore fertility before it's good again

 

[Coconutz]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=55683
Thats all you need. The rest of the stickies could be done away with
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=81674
This one isnt really in the coco section

Pretty basic shit.
Keep the coco wet, not soggy and you dont need much runoff or any additives.

 

[papaduc]

VERY helpful advice, but a few more questions if you don't mind..

I never tested my tap water, aside from pH. I'm still learning, what exactly is "ec"? What do those numbers mean when you referenced it? If my water has too much chlorine or whatever, what is this bubbling you refer to? I have to lug 10ish 1 gallon jugs up a flight of stairs to water them, aside from leaving the caps off I'm not sure how I can fix anything with my water aside from an r/o..

Do you have any suggestions of a nute line specifically to use in tandem with straight canna Coco?

Also, I start from seed and usually just soak in water until they sink, plant and away they go. What medium is good to start seeds in? Just Coco? I'm concerned about them thriving during the seedling /veg stage and I'm not sure how I prepare a medium for that..

EC is electrical conductivity. It's a simple measure of elements in the water. A bluelab ec stick, for example, starts 0.2 and goes up in 0.2 increments. The lower your tap water the cleaner it is and the more blank a canvas you have to work from when using your nutes. It's a very simple thing really. In fact you don't strictly need an EC pen and can measure your feeds by the mil, provided you know your tap water is ok.

Bubbling is just putting an airstone (like those in fish tanks) in your water to keep it oxygenated overnight. Unless your water is very high in chlorine it's almost if not completely pointless and I wouldn't do it unless you know for a fact your chlorine levels are unusually high.

With regard to nutes, one thing I will advise is don't buy into the bullshit about them. Seriously, I see people using 20 bottles of different products and their results are no better than mine. I use one bottle for the most part. Find any good base nutrient and use that on it's own. Any additives you want to play around with you can add after. I use Hesi bloom for the flower period and some pk13/14 to add in during that stage as well. To add that I'll just replace 0.2ec of my bloom feed with 0.2 of that.

Remember, you're feeding a weed. That we've been sold on buying a hundred products to do so is one of the true marvels of modern day marketing.

 

[papaduc]

Oh yeah, and seeds straight into coco. Soon as they pop out of their shell and throw two leaves out, start them on 1.0ec of starter feed. You need no more prep than that.

 

[RSA]

not sure i follow when you say "i'll replace my 2.0ec"

what i would usually do would be fill up a gallon jug with tap water, add nutes, pH, then feed. i would add nutes based off direction, ie 1/2 tsp per gallon, etc.

i plan on using FloraMicro+FloraBloom. how do i go about translating how much of the liquid i put into a 1 gallon jug into "ec"?

also, i am going to have many plants running at the same time...when I water, sometimes there is runoff that collects, but i try to dry it/soak it up so the pots dont 'sit' in it...is there any way to avoid this or some other method of watering that would prevent that? i can't take each plant out, water, put back in...so maybe some sort of elevation off the ground for the pots? not sure..

 

[papaduc]

Let me explain what I mean when I say replace 0.2ec.

The bluelab truncheon I use goes up in 0.2 increments.
It starts on 0.2 and goes up to about 3.2
my tap water ec is 0.2

I build that up to 1.0 or 1.2 using nutes, whether in veg or flower I find that's usually as high as I need to go.

In flower I use an extra bit of pk just to alter the ratios and to reduce the nitrogen a bit. So Instead of going to 1.2 with just bloom nutes, I'll go to 1.0 with them, then put 0.2 PK on top. Making 1.2. I've just replaced 0.2ec of the bloom with pk, it's that simple.

If you're measuring by teaspoon I'd invest in an ec pen, but if you're getting by fine with manual measurements then it's up to you. It's one more reason to be on a one part nutrient though.

About GH bloom & micro....

Listen, don't even bother with bloom and micro unless you can't get hold of a good one part nutrient such as Hesi or Vitalink. There's no point.

I've just finished some not so long ago and they do the job but there's absolutely no gain over the 1-part nutes I just mentioned.

If there was a single gram of gain, either in yield or plant health, I'd say go for it. But there isn't. I wouldn't say they were bad nutes, but I'll never use them again because there's just no point.

Don't worry about your plants sitting in water. As long as you don't take it to extreme levels, you'll be ok. Just water a little until the roots search out the pot. After a week of healthy growth, you'll be able to water to run through and leave them to drink back up what comes out.

If every now and then you want to get more run through and let it drain off - like a mini flush - well.. there are loads ways you can go about it. Either a small fishtank pump which you put into the saucers and pump the run off via a length of tube into a container to throw away, or a large tray with a lean and a drain on the end. There are loads of methods people use. It's a question in itself and I'm sure if you search this site you'll find loads of different tips on it.

I hope that answers your Q's. Any more just ask.

 

[RSA]

Let me explain what I mean when I say replace 0.2ec.

The bluelab truncheon I use goes up in 0.2 increments.
It starts on 0.2 and goes up to about 3.2
my tap water ec is 0.2

I build that up to 1.0 or 1.2 using nutes, whether in veg or flower I find that's usually as high as I need to go.

In flower I use an extra bit of pk just to alter the ratios and to reduce the nitrogen a bit. So Instead of going to 1.2 with just bloom nutes, I'll go to 1.0 with them, then put 0.2 PK on top. Making 1.2. I've just replaced 0.2ec of the bloom with pk, it's that simple.

If you're measuring by teaspoon I'd invest in an ec pen, but if you're getting by fine with manual measurements then it's up to you. It's one more reason to be on a one part nutrient though.

About GH bloom & micro....

Listen, don't even bother with bloom and micro unless you can't get hold of a good one part nutrient such as Hesi or Vitalink. There's no point.

I've just finished some not so long ago and they do the job but there's absolutely no gain over the 1-part nutes I just mentioned.

If there was a single gram of gain, either in yield or plant health, I'd say go for it. But there isn't. I wouldn't say they were bad nutes, but I'll never use them again because there's just no point.

Don't worry about your plants sitting in water. As long as you don't take it to extreme levels, you'll be ok. Just water a little until the roots search out the pot. After a week of healthy growth, you'll be able to water to run through and leave them to drink back up what comes out.

If every now and then you want to get more run through and let it drain off - like a mini flush - well.. there are loads ways you can go about it. Either a small fishtank pump which you put into the saucers and pump the run off via a length of tube into a container to throw away, or a large tray with a lean and a drain on the end. There are loads of methods people use. It's a question in itself and I'm sure if you search this site you'll find loads of different tips on it.

I hope that answers your Q's. Any more just ask.

well, i sort of follow.

my history has been essentially just measuring out a teaspoon of floranova liquid nutes, mixing in with tap water, done. i never went as far as to calculate 'ec', and while i understand what you're relaying, i'm not sure i follow how that would apply to me adding nutrients to a jug of water, and watering.

so, going straight Canna Coco, i went to (for example) Hesi's site, http://www.hesinutrients.com/coco.html

there's a ton of options.

i need to keep this as simple as possible...

so being where i am at, what products can you recommend I grab (including any necessary equipment) to ensure a healthy grow?

 

[dansbuds]

Tap water .... straight canna coco in 3 gallon pots . full canna coco line of nutes at 1/2 strength .& keep a bottle of calmag on hand in case you get a hungry strain . PH of 5.7 to 6.1 max ... coco has a unique nutrient make up out of the bag & has to be fed as you use it ... meaning as soon as you put a plant into it ... feed it .... at whatever strength the plant needs for its stage of life . your tap water & a dose of A & B would be enough . additives depend on the plants stage of life .
3 gallon pots of coco will allow you to water every other day up untill late flower , by then you will probably be watering 2x during lights on .
you can hand feed if thats what your used to .... but drip lines are much better . coco can be watered as much as 4 to 6 times during a cycle to get that "hydro " growth . that you can look into after you get used to coco .
no the pots cannot set in the runoff ... it creates a salt build up & will throw everything in the root zone outa whack . yes you need runoff to flush all the salts out of the coco . 10 to 40% of the volume going in .one other thing i forgot .... coco needs to stay moist at all times .not dried out & not saturated .... moist .
that'll get you started on a coco run while you read & learn about coco , the Cations of pottasium & calcium etc .... theres a little to learn , but once you do , you'll see how easy it is .

coco is not as hard as you think .... yeah theres a learning curve to it ... but thats what IC mag forums are for .... its all here , read it !!

coco DTW is the shit man !!! simple , easy & yeilds like crazy !!! soil produces at 1 ounce per gallon .... coco can do 3x that !!! i've gotten close to 4 per gallon

try it dude .... you can thank me later

heres my veg in 3 1/2 gallon pots being hand fed every 2 to 3 days .