the Hand Watering coco thread

[papaduc]

I have a bunch of babies in happyfrog soil can I transplant in to coco or will that cause problems.I got some other plants that were in coco and I transplanted them in to soil. They are doing great. Not sure if I can transplant from soil to coco. I've read this thread start to finish and want to give coco a shot.

Yes you can. If they're babies in small pots of compost then just pot them up into straight coco and make a seamless transition straight away. No extra measures to be taken. Buy coco nutes and start feeding them from the get go and you're off.

When I first made the switch from compost years ago, I still used the seed and cutting mix I used to get from the builders yard to start them off in. It was good mix and guaranteed a good start from the babies. Then I naturally just graduated into coco start to finish. But yea, going from seed cup of compost into coco is fine.

 

[biobizz]

drain 2 the tent-floor or flood-table?

drain 2 the tent-floor or flood-table?

hello everyone!
thats my first post here. i really love this forum - before i found it i was lost..anyway glad i found a real community with no haters, smartasses and bullshit rules.
enough said about this. just wanna give u some infos about my hobby:


earlier i was totally into SOG hand-watering and later automatic but i had a seriouse problem with this digital timer shit and i was fucking lucky in the end.

now i´m more into big plants -less plants-less stress and i have a telescope watering-stick connected to a big pump. i can pull the stick out 1,5meters and make shure there is not a single dry spot in my pots.

i´m growing organic for a long time now.
first i had problems to overdose nutrients now i underdose.

so i decided to make the step to coco finally cause i want more control over feeding and take it to the next level.

i use a pro ph-meter for watering (cause my ph is +8) and i have a ec meter(which is useless for organic-nutrients i found out;-)


i guess i got most important infos from here and there but what i really wonder:

what happens with the drain-water?
i calculated: my plants need about 30L a day (11L pots)
most people say 20%drain and you´re good.
so total about 6L runs out..
will the run-out water dry on the tent-floor quick or is it NECESSARY to use a flood-table and catch all the drain in a bucket?

i´ve seen many people just let it run on the floor but i don´t know if they really have enough drain to get optimum results.

final question:
if i keep the 20% drain straight to the finish and watch ec every day - it should be enough flushing so i don´t need to flush the pots in the shower?

what nutrients would you use for the start? i want to select one of these:
canna, metrop, bio nova, advanced hydroponics

i guess the rest is learning by doing
...and reading

thx

 

[Green lung]

hello everyone!
thats my first post here. i really love this forum - before i found it i was lost..anyway glad i found a real community with no haters, smartasses and bullshit rules.
enough said about this. just wanna give u some infos about my hobby:


earlier i was totally into SOG hand-watering and later automatic but i had a seriouse problem with this digital timer shit and i was fucking lucky in the end.

now i´m more into big plants -less plants-less stress and i have a telescope watering-stick connected to a big pump. i can pull the stick out 1,5meters and make shure there is not a single dry spot in my pots.

i´m growing organic for a long time now.
first i had problems to overdose nutrients now i underdose.

so i decided to make the step to coco finally cause i want more control over feeding and take it to the next level.

i use a pro ph-meter for watering (cause my ph is +8) and i have a ec meter(which is useless for organic-nutrients i found out;-)


i guess i got most important infos from here and there but what i really wonder:

what happens with the drain-water?
i calculated: my plants need about 30L a day (11L pots)
most people say 20%drain and you´re good.
so total about 6L runs out..
will the run-out water dry on the tent-floor quick or is it NECESSARY to use a flood-table and catch all the drain in a bucket?

i´ve seen many people just let it run on the floor but i don´t know if they really have enough drain to get optimum results.

final question:
if i keep the 20% drain straight to the finish and watch ec every day - it should be enough flushing so i don´t need to flush the pots in the shower?

what nutrients would you use for the start? i want to select one of these:
canna, metrop, bio nova, advanced hydroponics

i guess the rest is learning by doing
...and reading

thx

I take a saucer flip it upside down and place the pot on top so its off the ground and let the run-off run on the floor/plastic. 20% isn't neccessary just water enough until it runs out the bottom a little bit, it will evaporate no problem, does not add humidity or anything like that.


Let the coco dry out a little bit so the roots can occupy the pot, but after that once the roots spread out in the pot you can up the watering frequency and than don't let it dry out especially in flower, keep it moist


.

 

[biobizz]

many thx green lung! all your bud pictures looking great(especially the beast)! i´m shure you know what you´re talking about. greets

 

[Snow Crash]

I would remove the runoff daily. It can be a bit of a chore to manage but it is worth the final product. A flood table will make collection and disposal a breeze though.

Metrop!!!! I cannot believe someone else finally dropped that name. Their products are really well formulated and extremely concentrated. For a beginner I think that maybe you might have better luck running a more well known program like CANNA or General Hydroponics. This will provide you with a larger support net of other users if you run into issues with the nutrient lines. Metrop is a little under the radar still.

 

[Billsharp]

great information

great information

ok, so I am now doing my first grow, plants are at 28 days from seed, growing in coco, thought I had done plenty of research before beginning this journey, but I had not read this thread, I have read plenty here on ICMag over the past 6 months, I am having problems and went to the local green Hydro store today and came home and read this thread, wish I had known this info weeks ago, but now it has been pounded in my head enough to sink in, don't treat coco like soil, and use coco specific nutes, so I will be making another trip back to local hydro store soon, hopefully with my new understanding I can begin to address the problems, which I had tried everything I could think of until I read this and understand coco much better, daily feeding, specific nutes, an d treat it like coco, thanks so much to all who have contributed to this and thereby to my knowledge, I have put some pictures here if anyone has comments I would appreciate any help.

 

[andyinspain]

Summary

Summary

Hey bonecarver.

Thanks for all the fantastic info. I have tried to summarise what you have said here - I hope this is of use to people.

Hi from high in the Alpujarra, where my EC is 0.19 - that's good isn't it?

Also, some have recommended pre-soaking coco with a light feed using cal/mag, I didn't see you disagree with this - perhaps it should be added in?

And finally, based on the need for good drainage - are Smartpots not much safer for coco?


Preparation
------------

Ensure good drainage to avoid root rot type problems

For hand watering coco in flowering i recommend at least almost 2 gallon pots or more - to work less.

Make sure you use pots big enough for the watering intervals you want to have. Bigger pots means less watering. But more water is needed to flush out properly.


Seedlings
---------

Its crucial to let the pot dry in the early stages - get to a very light humid state - not dry - just enough air to make the roots search for the water - u need to get the roots going. For tiny seedlings it beneficial not to water too close to the stem. Water along the rim of the pot to make the roots grow a bit. BUT i do recommend as soon as u see your plant is in the rapid veg state - you should increase watering and nutes.

For maximum root growth i avoid to water very often when the plants are young. But always when watering i water a bit in excess.

Seeds sprout really well directly in coco.

I just use plain water for the first few weeks, i dont even PH adjust

When having seedlings in coco one waters VERY little,


Rhizotonic
----------

Rhizotonic is not a necessary nutrition that it is a must to give to plants at all times. It IS a root growth aid. It has its use in the right moments for best effect. for example after and transplants etc. during first stages of veg etc.

Rhizotonic in higher doses is pretty much counter productive also. It really brings up PH. ... meaning that could lead to ph fluctuations

Misting with rhizotonic (cannas guidelines!) works very well to help plants with root problems that in normal cases would not absorb the rhizo by the roots.

Rhizotonic is as I see it a complementary product that is really voluntary to use. It is NOT necessary for getting a good crop with the canna coco.



Watering
--------

Water slowly....and evenly.

In coco u will be better off the more u water - to a certain point

Frequent waterings and balanced nutrition programs are the most efficient.

I always try to water with room temp water - like around 20 even when flushing

If you find that you are watering a little bit too much, try watering little bit at a time, until u get a few drops starting to come out in the bottom. normally after a few minutes the excess water will flush out. But it does take time. It's easy to give too much (meaning wasting) nute water if u don't water slowly..

I full-heartedly recommend to water at least once a day.

Way too much water for too long time kills the roots. When u let it dry out a bit - the roots will go looking for what they need.

Always water abundantly and excessively in coco. Your plants will thank you for it.

Rainwater is lacking in some minerals, so its good to mix it with some tapwater. You can also use rainwater pure and ad CAL+MAG when needed.





Nutrients
--------

Coco nutes gives the best results with less problems.

CANNA A and B is really all you need to grow good bud.

Water with nutes too early can really mess it up

Make sure you use nutes specific for coco! - this will give the best results and easy of use. Using non coco nutes in coco is just complicating things unnecessary.

You can use 50% strength nutes with no problem..

I normally go full-on when the clones are rooted - i jump up from 20 ml A+B - to 25 ml per 10 litres.

WATCH your plants -THEY will tell you better than an EC meter if they got enough or not. Better watch them for signs of need to raise the nutes before raising it.

If the one feels the nute level is too low its no problem to give an other watering with a higher dose same day.

I mix my nutes about 15 to 20 minutes before I'm going to use it. I hand water so i just mix what i need. partially because of fluctuating PH. part because of ease.

My tip of the DECADE is to NOT TO BUY CANNA FLOWERING ACCELERATOR or BIO BOOST.

An over nuted plant will never do her best. Its always best to rather go on the LOW-side of things. That's because thats how the plants LIKE IT.

The only thing needed to grow outstanding BUD in CANNA COCO: coco A+B nutes, PK 13-14, tap water. Thats it, the rest is extras, rhizotonic is not a necessity, neither is any of the other products of canna.


PK13-14

PK 13-14 is most effective to give in the moment the plants are developing small clusters of flowers - like a finger-tip or a little bit more. I rarely give full dose of PK since its strong stuff

Don't ad PK to sativa dominant plants until they are WELL into flowering

It might be more beneficial to flush before giving PK, if you are going to flush. like this the ec will be lower in the coco and give more headroom for working for the plant.





Salt Buildup
------------

Salt build up will really only become a problem if the coco gets time to get dry, (the water evaporate etc) - and the salt that's dissolved in the water gets concentrated. If you use strong nutes and frequent waterings you can still get high salt level in the water just because of the nute levels. Some plants can definitely get damaged from that.

Make sure you have run off when watering. about 20-40% is enough.

Make sure the coco never gets dry - this is a hydro medium. Daily watering often gives better results. Coco should never be dried up inbetween watering unless there is some really serious reason for it.


Accumulation of salts can affect the ph rate to go up.





On Canna Coco
---------

I recommended the canna coco nutes

I love canna coco nutes because of their simplicity. They also have a lot of different additives - but using A+B plus a bit of PK13-14 is all you need - the rest of the products are more or less just watered out nutes anyway with some organic additives.

Use coco un mixed for BEST results.

Coco handles heat better than any other medium i tried. It seems it insulates the roots

The high amount of K in coco means giving too much too soon of PK can cause trouble - i.e burning the plants.



Color
------

dark green is not good - better to try to keep at a lush green tone - NOT DARK. think FOREST green




Flushing

---------

I try to flush around 1 week - to 2 weeks.

Flushing is a ongoing process - that i think is best done watering plain water every 2-3 waterings. Means NO nutes.

Watering with low ec and lots of run-off means you don't need to flush. ???

Finish of by giving a watering with mild nutes.

No point flushing out all the nutes and the NOT ad nutes again as replacement....

COCO has a QUITE HIGH retaining capacity and it WILL work as a buffer with nutes etc. So basically in one flush the nutes wont be flushed out entirely. This means using the tech of "feed once water once" actually can work well. The plants hardly will notice any minor fluctuations in nute regime.

I'd like to clear the term "flushing" - when we talk about coco culture, this term does NOT mean the same as washing out a substrate with pure water like for example with soil growing. It is a quick thing to get out any excess of nutes and such, just watering in excess, what is generally known as drain to waste, specially WHEN hand watering.



On PH
-----

Check your PH! - range from 5.8 to 6.1 works really well

Don't worry about the Ph coming out of the pots in the drain water coco in it self is acidic

Never ever in my whole life of growing in coco have bothered about the drain water PH really...

You make sure you water with that PH u are adjusting to, and thats it.

Vinegar is a bad ph-down and works just for a few minutes - same goes with lemon juice etc. Only ph-down that works ok is the chemical ones. They work as supposed to. There is no organic option with quality.

The ph must be adjusted in the nutrient solution. It's a must to keep it at least at 6 or even a bit lower. The coco itself if treated right will not have a fluctuating ph. Use distilled water or RO water or anything equivalent to mix with your tapwater to get it to a decent ec level. My tapwater is ec 1.0 and i mix it with about 1/3 of distilled water or even more at times.

I for one always add all nutes and additives BEFORE i adjust the PH. The last thing inn the chain is to make sure the PH is stable and that the EC is what u want it to be - BEFORE watering.



EC
--


With an ec of 0.4 or higher its pretty much a necessity to ad ph down to keep the ph right.


With tap water with ec 0.4 to 0.6 works well in coco and cal mag is not necessary to ad.


Start EC of 0.25 which is pretty much perfect if you don't want to be using calmag etc. A tapwater with ec 0.2 -0.3 has all the cal and mag MJ needs for growing in coco.




Coco Outdoors
-------------

Outdoors plants will use up the water very quick on sunny days.

In most cases watering everyday is necessary - or gives best results.

When its hot its better to water more, since the plants use more water and leave a lot of nutes to build up. when the temps are lower, the plants need less water, and dont need to get watered as often.




On seeing problems:
-----------------------

FIRST - dont panic! second - flush, third - adjust your feeding to the usage of the plants.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

well done! i think it looks very well summed up!

 

[bonecarver_OG]

ok now the questions.

your tapwater EC is very low and thats good! you might need to add cal mag at some stage, depending on the Ca/Mg content. but first give a try without! if it works well, dont complicate it

i never used cal mag, but there is plenty in the tap water in the area. i use mostly rain water because of the low EC, and i add some tap water now and then. works just fine! but know there is ppl who live in areas where there is not as much cal mag in the tap water, or they prefeer to use RO water, and for them cal mag might be a help.

smart pots or not, just make sure you have enough holes in the bottom for fast drainage. you can use buckets, bottles or anything as long as you make sure it drains fast.

peace!

 

[Caravaggio]

My tapwater is like literally 1.0ec! So I use RO with an Ec of 0. Then I add about .25ec of CalMag every feeding.

 

[biobizz]

thx snow crash!
so planting soil into coco is possible but also stress for the plants/roots? i´ve got many clones her in 7L soil -would transplant them into 11L. (lots of powerplants, NL, SS)

i´ll stick to soil if it´s easier in that case. beside i´ll experiment with my first coco grow in 100% coco. would white russian be a good strain for coco?how many plants in a 120x120 tent 600w -7L pots?

 

[Maxhouse]

hey andyinspain,

it's a very good post you doing here, lot of interrest and I pretty agree with you, cause I using Canna coco nutes like, and I give the same method to friends...

 

[Maxhouse]

hey biobizz,

yes, you can put your 7L plant in soil in 11L pot with coco, just try to leave some soil when you transplant.. and just after transplant, watering them with canna coco :15ml / 10 L, with cannazym :25ml / 10L, and Rhyzo :10ml to 40ml / 10L.

You can put the number of plants you want in your tent, but keep in mind, plants in coco are more taller than soil, they "stretching" very well....

and use canna coco soil... with canna coco nutes... it's can not be more simple....

Best Regards

 

[DrBagseed]

I will be starting to hand water my first coco grow this week, should I get drip clean eventho I am using the canna nutrient line and hand watering?

 

[RonSmooth]

I will be starting to hand water my first coco grow this week, should I get drip clean eventho I am using the canna nutrient line and hand watering?

I have never used drip clean or canna nutrients and havent had a problem with salt buildup.

I water/feed daily with Maxibloom @1.8EC until run-off.

I think drip clean is more important when using irrigation.

 

[papaduc]

so planting soil into coco is possible but also stress for the plants/roots? i´ve got many clones her in 7L soil -would transplant them into 11L.

I wouldn't plant 7L compost into 11L coco. Seed cup or 1L compost into a big container yes, but 7L no. The coco on the outside will dry quicker than the compost in the middle and saturating that much compost every day isn't a good idea. You'll get no benefit whatsoever transplanting 7 into 11. Best to finish in compost then do coco from the start.

 

[Bobbo4200]

Tagged-

 

[noyd666]

might be handy for a coco grower and other's, first time iv'e seen it. I part nute's for hard, alkaline or SALTY WATERS.

 

[stoned40yrs]

2 parts- grow bottle and bloom bottle.

 

[noyd666]