World Series Game 3 Obstruction Controversy Poll....

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

Mods...I know this is a sports related thread, but I'm hoping you'll leave it up in the Toker's Den so that the maximum number of folks will see it and vote their opinion. It's very controversial, and is already scheduled for a review by major league baseball. Will be interesting to see how a good number of people poll out. Video of the play is below...

Here is the official rule that covers obstruction:

Rule 7.06.
When obstruction occurs, the umpire shall call or signal "Obstruction."

(a) If a play is being made on the obstructed runner, or if the batter-runner is obstructed before he touches first base, the ball is dead and all runners shall advance, without liability to be put out, to the bases they would have reached, in the umpire's judgment, if there had been no obstruction. The obstructed runner shall be awarded at least one base beyond the base he had last legally touched before the obstruction. Any preceding runners, forced to advance by the award of bases as the penalty for obstruction, shall advance without liability to be put out.


Rule 7.06(a) Comment: When a play is being made on an obstructed runner, the umpire shall signal obstruction in the same manner that he calls "Time," with both hands overhead. The ball is immediately dead when this signal is given; however, should a thrown ball be in flight before the obstruction is called by the umpire, the runners are to be awarded such bases on wild throws as they would have been awarded had not obstruction occurred. On a play where a runner was trapped between second and third and obstructed by the third baseman going into third base while the throw is in flight from the shortstop, if such throw goes into the dugout the obstructed runner is to be awarded home base. Any other runners on base in this situation would also be awarded two bases from the base they last legally touched before obstruction was called.

​

Don't vote until you've seen the actual play. Most people probably have seen it, but if you haven't, here is the play:

[youtubeif]5WTq1s0aTvc[/youtubeif]

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

he stepped on his leg.. it would be obstruction i would think.

 

[Space Toker]

In the NFL, they have what they call "no calls", where technically the rules say a penalty happened and they do not call it. That is what should have happened here. Technically, they made the right call although I did not think so last night. But they should have never made it, and never did until now. The timing is suspicious, especially after numerous balls called strikes against the Red Sox. And also that this has never been called before. anyway, Go Red Sox!

 

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

he stepped on his leg.. it would be obstruction i would think.

If you look closely, he tripped on the 3rd baseman's thigh, which was laying flat on the ground, and was pretty far from the middle of the base path. I think the ump made the call that way because he saw the 3rd baseman's lower leg raise up and that happened at almost exactly the same time as he tripped making it look like that caused the trip up. It appeared to me that the 3rd baseman's (what's his name!) leg raised up as a reflex but he quickly realized it could be in the way and immediately lowered his leg. Anyways, to me, the trip seems to happen when the runner's foot got hung up on the guy's thigh, which was laying flat on the ground.

Ayecarumba, talking about something being on the fence!

 

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

Here's something that is real interesting....remember that pitcher who had a perfect game stolen from him....was that last year?...anyways the umpire who made the bad call in that game (which he admitted was a rotten call, after he saw it on replay) is the same guy who made the call in the controversial play last night...

 

[Space Toker]

yeah but sweet revenge, a guy picked off and we win! go red sox!!!
what you said was right on, I meant that the media thought they made the right call, I did not at first and then I did and now I think not again based on what you said. Some umps seem to have personal vendettas to settle and this seems like one of them.

 

[dddaver]

"runner is obstructed before he touches first base" As the guy was rounding 3rd base, aren't they missapplying this rule?

 

[dddaver]

Oops. "Never-mind" *he says thinking of Gilda Radner on SNL* I skipped over the first part of the rule. But whether the obstruction is intentional or unintentional, the rule stands. They made the right call.

 

[Green lung]

It also looks like Middlebrooks held his feet up in the air on purpose, like he was about to put them down but then he thought I 'll just leave my legs here and maybe it slows the guy down, he left them up there a little too long.


.

 

[diggdugg]

Draw a straight line between 3rd base and home plate and the base path is clear. NOT obstruction in my view.

 

[Babbabud]

the "base path " is not just the line between the two bases ... it is a line from where the runner is to home plate.

 

[Hank Hemp]

There ain't no crying or tripping in baseball!

 

[Babbabud]

Tell that to Doc Ellis

Tell that to Doc Ellis

There ain't no crying or tripping in baseball!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dock_Ellis

 

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

Nice one, Babba! A history buff are you? I bet you're just more into taking vacations....

 

[Space Toker]

It looks to me like the guy intentionally tripped over Middlebrook's leg in order to get that call, he had a clear path and did not take it.

 

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

Something needs to be done in the rules to deal with this kind of situation. It's understandable while the obstruction rule is in place, a runner shouldn't be interfered with while trying to run the bases. But, shouldn't it also be true that a defensive player shouldn't be disallowed from trying to make a defensive play on the ball. Seems that the offense and defense should be equally represented. That 3rd baseman was only trying to make a play on the ball, he didn't try to get in the runner's way.

On another note...somebody I was talking with brought up the rule when a runner gets hit by a hit ball while running the bases and is immediately called out, whether he was trying to affect the trajectory of the ball or not. It's no fault of the runner, but it's one of those "tough shit dude" situations where the runner is "shit out of luck." Sort of the exact opposite of what happened in this play.

 

[Babbabud]

hmmm

hmmm

It looks to me like the guy intentionally tripped over Middlebrook's leg in order to get that call, he had a clear path and did not take it.

My only problem with this is we would have to believe that in a fraction of a second or less .. the base runner thought .. well if it looks like he interferes then Ill get called safe at home ...so let me trip over his legs and Im sure ill get the obstruction call and my run will be counted ? Runner actually had a very sore ankle and could explain why he stood up exactly as he did ? Lots to think about I guess ?

 

[diggdugg]

This is one of those deals that will be argued for a long time. The only thing that helps the umpire case is he did poit straight out the call before the play was over. If he hadn't done that and then called obstruction, the baseball world would be melting down!

Baseball is such a beautiful thing. Love it! Even though my Rangers suck giant ass.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

It's understandable while the obstruction rule is in place, a runner shouldn't be interfered with while trying to run the bases. But, shouldn't it also be true that a defensive player shouldn't be disallowed from trying to make a defensive play on the ball. Seems that the offense and defense should be equally represented. That 3rd baseman was only trying to make a play on the ball, he didn't try to get in the runner's way.

OBSTRUCTION is the act of a fielder who, while not in possession of the ball and not in the act of fielding the ball, impedes the progress of any runner.

http://www.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/definition_terms_2.jsp

The obstruction occurred after the third baseman missed the catch, and the runner was attempting to reach home. At this point the third baseman was no longer in the act of fielding the ball.

After a fielder has made an attempt to field a ball and missed, he can no longer be in the "act of fielding" the ball. For example: an infielder dives at a ground ball and the ball passes him and he continues to lie on the ground and delays the progress of the runner, he very likely has obstructed the runner.

http://baseball-rules.com/umphelp.htm#P1b

 

[Space Toker]

My only problem with this is we would have to believe that in a fraction of a second or less .. the base runner thought .. well if it looks like he interferes then Ill get called safe at home ...so let me trip over his legs and Im sure ill get the obstruction call and my run will be counted ? Runner actually had a very sore ankle and could explain why he stood up exactly as he did ? Lots to think about I guess ?

yes could get debated back and forth endlessly, and you of course have a point. It could have been interference on either player so I think they should have not made a call. I am thankful it may be a moot point if Red Sox keep playing well. go Red Sox!