Flowering.... trimming fan leaves off....leaving fan leaves on

[northerngrafta]

anyone ever heard of just tucking or tieing the leaves back to let the light through

 

[Crooked8]

^^mentioned multiple times, still blocks light from the lowers and keeps them larfy. The light has to penetrate the canopy. Defoliation allows this. Tucking does not.

 

[DrFever]

if you look at a apple tree it has tons of leafs that stay green through out as well as apples harvested from all parts of tree i wonder next year if i strip all the leafs off how much it will produce i bet it will be SAD compared to my other untouched apple tree lets get into the real science on this matter

A leaf has evolved, chemically and structurally, to optimize photosynthesis (Greek:
photo=light). The overall function of the biochemical process of photosynthesis is to absorb
light energy and convert it into chemical bond energy that is then useable by the plant; this
chemical bond energy is within the glucose sugar which is synthesized by the photosynthetic
process. Thus, it is sometimes said that a plant gets its “food” (glucose) from sunlight. The
“inputs” required by photosynthesis are light, carbon dioxide and water, and the “outputs”
produced are glucose and oxygen. Your textbook provides greater detail of the biochemical
process involved in photosynthesis.

Photosynthesis (glucose)
6CO2 + 6H2O + light C6H12O6 + 6O2

In addition to producing chlorophyll, leaves have evolved to produce several other
pigments, collectively termed accessory pigments, which absorb solar energy for
photosynthesis. Why bother having accessory pigments? Accessory pigments absorb
wavelengths of light that chlorophyll cannot absorb effectively, enabling the plant to use more of
the sun’s energy. One family of accessory pigments is called carotenoids. As shown in Figure
1, carotenoids absorb light from violet into the greenish-blue range; as a result carotenoids
appear in various shades of yellow or yellow-orange to our eyes.

A third class of pigments is the anthocyanins. Unlike the chlorophylls and carotenoids,
anthocyanins do not participate in photosynthesis and may appear red, purple, or blue.
Anthocyanins occur widely among higher plants, and are the pigments that generally give color
to flowers, but also occur in leaves and fruits. In leaves, these pigments often help to protect
against excessive sunlight that can damage some leaf tissues. This is one reason why a young,
newly developing leaf is often redder than when it reaches its mature size.
But one very important thing is PLANT GAS EXCHANGE with less leafs plant not only suffers its over heats now getting back to actual photosynthesis them lower leafs are also doing there job they have changed from being sun leafs and that is exchanging gases water vapour and so on

 

[Crooked8]

I never said to defoliate all fan leaves. Apples vs cannabis is just inapplicable. Hardwoods vs vascular plants? Also if you defoliated an apple tree after 75% of its production of fruit had already happened it would be a similar comparison to what I'm talking about. Not many growing apple trees indoors. The sun vs a light is very different. If you defoliated half of an apple tree indoors, i bet the lower apples would be larger and overall apple yield could increase. Not sure, i dont grow apples. I understand FULLY what a fan leafs job is. I also have experience with defoliating and not defoliating over years with the same strains. Ive watched the numbers go up as soon as i started to defoliate after week 5. Growing an outdoor apple tree vs an indoor cannabis plant is incomparable on many levels. Defining photosynthesis and how plants make glucose is elementary. If you dont already know that, you have no business growing anything. Stripping all the leaves off of an apple tree at the beginning of the year probably would ruin it. Defoliating closer to harvest time about half to two thirds of the leaves that mainly block apples, doubt that would ruin anything. People defoliate plants all the time, tomatoes are a prime example. A better example also because its a vascular plant. Training a plant via lower stem removal two weeks after onset, along with slight defoliation every other day AFTER week 5 of flower will ultimately increase yield and density overall ime with every strain, and I've grown many.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

The minute we stepped indoors to grow we can forget about all this "nature does this" to refute any technique.

There aint no sun indoors. We told nature to fuck off, we'll grow without the sun. We'll IMITATE some of what the sun does.

Guess what folks, the natural soil where our beloved plant(s) grow naturally does not have anything remotely close to the amount of beneficial nutrients that we DAILY supply our indoor girls with.

MUCH of what we do "goes against nature" to some degree. Yet we are highly successful all the same!

I defoliate twice in veg normally. Then again at end of stretch. One week or so later, as the leaves have come back with a vengeance, I start plucking any/all fan leaves that have a noticeable stem that I can "nail" without clipping off pcs of flower.

I get 10oz+ dry from girls less than 32" tall and 28" wide. All high quality smoke too.

Pic #1 roughly end of stretch after stripping. Missed plenty but too tired to carry on.

Pic #2 Five gals of leaves plucked this day from 4 plants

Pic #3 Ten days later (today). Ready for some more stripping.

Pic #4 Same plant from side, ready for plucking. Wow, look how deep into here there are good flowers growing.

Pic #5 Harvest day, last grow. Lousy pic, but obviously lots of dense bud in a 5x5 tent. (cfl used just to take pics)

nature does not always provide the best environment everywhere, but we are trying to imitate a perfect natural environment, which means we are trying to imitate nature in like Hawaii. We are giving it max day time light exposure, and max access to nutrients, and a location with no pests hopefully. that is the bare minimum.

not all strains behave as yours did. some buds formations would be very hindered by your technique.

 

[al70]

whilst removing fans one day i noticed something,,, i had just watered and decided to carry out some defo,, i snipped a big fan off and straight away water started dripping from the remainder of the stalk, i was amazed at how quick the water had made its way up the roots, but from now on i'm gonna defo straight after watering, rather like the way you would take a clone from a mother and put it directly into water to stop infection, defo after watering is sealing the wound, just my opinion, goodluck all.

 

[DrFever]

I never said to defoliate all fan leaves. Also, apples vs cannabis is just inapplicable. Hardwoods vs vascular plants? Also if you defoliated an apple tree after 75% of its production of fruit had already happened it would be a similar comparison to what I'm talking about. Not many growing apple trees indoors. The sun vs a light is very different. If you defoliated half of an apple tree indoors, i bet the lower apples would be larger and overall apple yield could increase. Not sure, i dont grow apples. I understand FULLY what a fan leafs job is. I also have experience with defoliating and not defoliating over years with the same strains. Ive watched the numbers go up as soon as i started to defoliate after week 5. Growing an outdoor apple tree vs an indoor cannabis plant is incomparable on many levels. Defining photosynthesis and how plants make glucose is elementary. If you dont already know that, you have no business growing anything. Stripping all the leaves off of an apple tree at the beginning of the year probably would ruin it. Defoliating closer to harvest time about half to two thirds of the leaves that mainly block apples, doubt that would ruin anything. People defoliate plants all the time, tomatoes are a prime example. A better example also because its a vascular plant. Training a plant via lower stem removal two weeks after onset, along with slight defoliation every other day AFTER week 5 of flower will ultimately increase yield and density overall ime with every strain, and I've grown many.

you mention tomato defoliating in terms you are doing what taking away the suckers no different then removing lower bud sites which take energy
Now you mention taking away leafs in 5th week of flower why not next time strip them prior to flower ???? you probably have 3 times better yield yea think ???
People that use co2 will be throwing there money away if they strip there leafs off thus no leaf = no stomata
Diffusion by removing leafs will it not effect that again C02 entering the stomata of leafs ?? oxygen diffusing out the stomata and venticels of leafs ???

 

[Crooked8]

you mention tomato defoliating in terms you are doing what taking away the suckers no different then removing lower bud sites which take energy
Now you mention taking away leafs in 5th week of flower why not next time strip them prior to flower ???? you probably have 3 times better yield yea think ???
People that use co2 will be throwing there money away if they strip there leafs off thus no leaf = no stomata
Diffusion by removing leafs will it not effect that again C02 entering the stomata of leafs ?? oxygen diffusing out the stomata and venticels of leafs ???

Were never gonna get anywhere bud

 

[EclipseFour20]

Theorists....vs.....Doers.

 

[Crooked8]

I do.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I strip my leaves on my tomatoes to ripen the fruit. This is done by permitting the light to get to the tomatoes by removing the leaves.

 

[DrFever]

I strip my leaves on my tomatoes to ripen the fruit. This is done by permitting the light to get to the tomatoes by removing the leaves.

A tomato is pretty close to the MJ family as per growing and same rules apply see ppl growing MJ cram there room when each plant should have a decent area of its on to grow
Don't plant them too close - Tomato plants need at least 1 1/2 feet between plants, preferably 2 feet, and that's for plants that are grown upright on stakes or cages. If no support is given and they are allowed to sprawl on the ground, tomato plants need twice as much room. Plants spaced too closely will produce few fruit and have more disease problems as the foliage stays wet. Plant according to how big they will get, not on the size of the transplants.
) Don't remove leaves or branches from mature plants with fruit - Some people think that tomato fruit need direct sunlight to ripen. This is untrue. Pruning tomato plants prior to fruiting is fine, as discussed earlier, but never remove foliage from a mature plant. This exposes fruit to direct sun and can lead to sunscald, a yellowing of the side exposed to the sun. The same holds true for green fruit you are ripening inside. Do not put them on a sunny windowsill. Instead put them in a paper bag and place them out of direct light.
think about this for a second your plant is 3 feet tall your light is what 24" above that plant so light is hanging 5 feet from that plant average grower use what 600 watt or less ???? what kind of power is lost from a 600 at 3 - 4 feet from a plant ??? its amazing how much intensity is lost or actual lumens as light gets further away so to think that a light is 5 feet plant is at 4 feet you skin plant and to think your going to get anything middle of plant down other the larf cause remember light is now approx 4-5 feet away from them buds hmmmmmmm is it worth it ??? anyone will tell you best ppossilbe yields is having as many buds as close to the light source as possible

 

[DHF]

I strip my leaves on my tomatoes to ripen the fruit. This is done by permitting the light to get to the tomatoes by removing the leaves.

IC plainly explained earlier in his pursuit of knowledge and experience on strippin leaves for increased production involved learning WHAT needed to go and WHEN to do it to prevent plant stall and recovery periods......

Point blank.....You can trim/shape/prune plants easily during veg due to the major root and foliage building process with increased light per cycle , but the MINUTE you pull the trigger and flip to bloomage/12/12 , hormonal changes begin , and ........

IF you fuck with your plants strippin leaves and sucker branches during stretch that`s scientifically proven to be 40% of the flowering cycle , they`ll shut down and take a minimum of 10-14 days to recover back to the point where they were from what I witnessed with my own eyes at several locations when I made the mistake.....

EVERYTHING I post is from first hand experience of doin this more yrs than I care to remember , but take this shit to the bank guys......

I learned that the bottom`s and the backs of my plants didn`t need lollipopped/hacked out that did in FACT increase my bottom line returns on my flip rooms , so in closing.....

I learned the hard way about strippin leaves when jrosek talked me into that shit several yrs ago saying strip EVERYTHING/ALL FANS @ day 21 and then again @ day 45 for increased yields and bud size.......

What it did was stunt the fuck outta my clone only Chem D`s that I`d been pullin 6 +/- lbs per room perpetually for a while.....Took me 12 weeks to pull what I`d been pullin in 10 WITHOUT strippin leaves.....but.....

When those 12 weeks were up , it was evident what the leaf removal had done as far as swellage and trichome production so I asked my old ass why , and it hit me......

Strain dependent......Genetics.......PERIOD.......That`s the ONLY way it can be explained as to why some folks kill without knowing it using flagrant de-fol , and some folks suck dick and yield is reduced due to the simple fact of not knowing WHEN to start getting rid of excess "un-needed" foliage till end of cycle.....and....

Before you come back with your dribble bout starving the plants of CO2 consumption without fanleaves Dr F....

EVERY fan left juttin out of colas AFTER gradual leaf strippin has MORE than enough stomata left to process and convert photosynthesis/CO2 since the plant`s primary function in full swellage is to suck juice during lights on for swellage during lights off , and pump resin for plant survival till death lights on ....

ALL these things I know from doin this outside AND in for over 30 yrs.....Not any "cut and paste" over here DR F....Been chillin at the beach for almost 2 months , and then come back to more shit stirring with you center stage talkin down to everyone as usual.....

Guys....I never experienced yield increase per se , but I did experience lower nuggage and backs of plants swelling more for overall better bag appeal instead of hash pile for headies , and the BIGGEST factor was.....

Ease of trim after the chop......Simple....Babyshit.....aight....Nuff outta my old retired ass ......Dr F....

Step off or gain some composure and respect.....Nobody here appreciates your holier than thou attitude OR attempts at your pecker bein bigger than ours....and....1 last thing......

Anyone that would admit in open forum to adulterating hash after the fact or during by "leafing it up" to increase weight , and then turn around and say it was to dilute it for the patients cuz it was too strong , is proof in the pudding where YOUR head`s at and I rest my case.......

Profit over finished product.......Good luck with your commercial biz.....I ran mine with quality first and quantity would follow with dialage......anyways....

Strip leaves gradually after stretch is completely done over a 1-2 week period into full flower strain dependent till they`re all gone and reap the benefits.......bet on it.....


Peace.....DHF..........

 

[EclipseFour20]

Dr....pendulums swing back and forth, going from one extreme to the other; apples and tomatoes are not the subject...MMJ is, so lets not swing an argument to an extreme scenario that none of us "users" are advocating.

Most of us that defoliate--do so...because it works (we did not secretly get together for any conspiracy to spread rumors or lies). If my plant has 10 branches--then I will guarantee at least 10 fan leaves will be removed (I remove the fan leave if the corresponding branch is mature enough "to clone"--not before). As the plant progresses, more mature leaves on these branches will also be removed...as needed. You see, in my world, defoliation helps increase the number of branching...which ultimately increases the number of bud sites.

Yep...no theory here, just reality.

Cheers!

BTW---ask 10 defoliators "how they do it"...and you will get 10 different answers. There is no "one way", just "my way" and "your way"....lol!

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Don't remove leaves or branches from mature plants with fruit - Some people think that tomato fruit need direct sunlight to ripen. This is untrue. Pruning tomato plants prior to fruiting is fine, as discussed earlier, but never remove foliage from a mature plant. This exposes fruit to direct sun and can lead to sunscald, a yellowing of the side exposed to the sun.

I remove these because they are of no use to the plant any longer and reduce the nutrients to the plant. Where I live there is not enough intense sunlight to get sun scald.

think about this for a second your plant is 3 feet tall your light is what 24" above that plant so light is hanging 5 feet from that plant average grower use what 600 watt or less ???? what kind of power is lost from a 600 at 3 - 4 feet from a plant ??? its amazing how much intensity is lost or actual lumens as light gets further away so to think that a light is 5 feet plant is at 4 feet you skin plant and to think your going to get anything middle of plant down other the larf cause remember light is now approx 4-5 feet away from them buds hmmmmmmm is it worth it ??? anyone will tell you best ppossilbe yields is having as many buds as close to the light source as possible

I run 1000 watts starting at 22 inches from the light and let my plants grow toward the light. Some sites are less than 8 inches from the light at finish.

IC plainly explained earlier in his pursuit of knowledge and experience on strippin leaves for increased production involved learning WHAT needed to go and WHEN to do it to prevent plant stall and recovery periods......

Thanks fred for restating my previous posts.

IF you fuck with your plants strippin leaves and sucker branches during stretch that`s scientifically proven to be 40% of the flowering cycle , your plants will shut down and take a minimum of 10-14 days to recover back to the point where they were from what I witnessed with my own eyes at several locations when I made the mistake.....

Spot on fred. To early and you will lose yield and increase flower time. I don't strip in veg but instead move my light to get the plant structure I desire. What you do will depend again on your grow and plants growth tendencies.

When those 12 weeks were up , it was evident what the leaf removal had done as far as swellage and trichome production so I asked my old ass why , and it hit me......

Strain dependent......Genetics.......PERIOD.......That`s the ONLY way it can be explained as to why some folks kill without knowing it using flagrant de-fol , and some folks suck dick and yield is reduced due to the simple fact of not knowing WHEN to start getting rid of excess "un-needed" foliage till end of cycle.....and....

Exactly what I have seen during my own grows.

Guys....I never experienced yield increase per se , but I did experience lower nuggage and backs of plants swelling more for overall better bag appeal instead of hash pile for headies , and the BIGGEST factor was.....

Ease of trim after the chop......Simple....Babyshit.....aight....Nuff outta my old retired ass ......Dr F....

This is were my yield comes from. Less larf period. I also lose less to mold from to dense of a canopy. And what a time saver at trim. That is were I need time the most is when I trim. It may take me till trim to get my leaves off and if that is the case I need that time when I trim the most.

Bottom line is you need to know your strain to know if fan leaf stripping will work for you.

 

[northerngrafta]

DHF I'm aware of hormones and not pruning after u flick but with certain strains if I don't prune bottoms during flower the stretch is so great that the amount of bottoms I take off in veg is never enough,due to the new found vigour in the tops they just go crazy tall. Is pruning bottoms in flower a massive no no for u or are there strain exceptions?!?!

 

[DHF]

DHF I'm aware of hormones and not pruning after u flick but with certain strains if I don't prune bottoms during flower the stretch is so great that the amount of bottoms I take off in veg is never enough,due to the new found vigour in the tops they just go crazy tall. Is pruning bottoms in flower a massive no no for u or are there strain exceptions?!?!

Hey Bro....For the record there ARE no constants with growin dope , and NOTHIN is written in stone as far as canopy management techniques are concerned , or there wouldn`t be 9 ways to skin a cat and arrive at near the same results using LST/SUPERCROP/FIM/TOPPING/ etc. etc.......IOW......

If the ONLY way you can control vertical stretch is by hackin out lowers , then continue doing what works for you.....It was always my thoughts in dialing stretchy varieties to just flip em sooner and run more plant numbers to develop a proper canopy , but as said above there`s many ways ta skin a mule....Hope that helps....anyways....

Leaf stripping at proper times once strain is known and dialed is INDEED beneficial to bottom line returns guaranteed by doin away with flarfy popcorn bullshit before end of cycle IME.....

Peace....DHF........

 

[DrFever]

I run 1000 watts starting at 22 inches from the light and let my plants grow toward the light. Some sites are less than 8 inches from the light at finish.



Bottom line is you need to know your strain to know if fan leaf stripping will work for you.

i can guarntee a bud 8" from light source will fry when its a 1000 watt light

 

[Ichabod Crane]

i can guarntee a bud 8" from light source will fry when its a 1000 watt light

Yes some times they do.

 

[Crooked8]

A lensed air cooled light can have tops at 8 inches. Its not ideal, it can cause bleaching and if the fans arent powerful enough the lights will still be too hot and burning will occur. Its not impossible though.