Chem 91??????

[The Hummus Monk]

So far so good with the C+ x 91S1 'male'. Nothing obviously abnormal...about 12 days in 12/12 now. I kind of expect there to be an issue as this plant is an S1(f) x S1(m)...we shall see.

Unfortunately I culled the 2 males from this cross. For the sake of this thread I should have kept them.

I will have a look through the saved pollen wraps to see if there's some plant matter for DNA testing. Would a flower head do? Would I need much material?

 

[Swampwater]

Perhaps, as was suggest in one of Tom's posts - if he didn't trust the source of the pollen, he'd suggest a contamination had occurred within the pollen, ie a true male contributor from another plant.

But I don't think that is what happend here, honestly. Instead we have a plant "behaving" as if it is fully male from what were S1 seeds..
dank.Frank

Why don't you think that's what happened?
I mean, I know that's the let-down, bummer explanation, but don't you think a bit of stray pollen from a male that was in the room, past or present, is more plausable than you getting the one in a million golden ticket that defies science as we know it?
Don't get me wrong, I'm rooting for ya finding some chem 91 genetic freak(c91 is one of my top 3 favs of all time) but... but when guys like tom hill, kopite, chimera & gmt are saying no/seriously doubtful... I would take that with more than a grain of salt. As in- i would assume they were correct until your testing tells you otherwise,not the other way around.

I would've killed it off and chaulked it up to being contaminated by stray pollen, or just a genetic cur...
But since you didn't, might as well play it out. As gmt mentioned testing plant matter, what do you have to work with? You said you had male flowers in the pollen? I would think that would be sufficent. Anything else, maybe an old stalk or stem? Have any offspring or siblings(havent read the whole thread yet to see what youve killed off/grown out)?

It's a good thread reguarless of the outcome. to all the contributors.

As for chem 91 itself- it's my favorite of all the chems. Not as strong as chem d, not the yielder chem 4 is, but for me it has the best taste & high of them all. I think it's an extremely important plant in the big picture of things, and a valuable breeding tool. For me, it's holy grail material.
I just stocked up on archives hazmat beans, which is chem 91 x faceoff og. I'm pretty excited about these, especially them being F x M. I think I'm more excited about what I find in the f2's than the f1's.

 

[dank.frank]

Just seeing this post swampwater - sorry -

I THINK that there was no pollen contamination because Cob is no sloppy grower. When he says it was the only pollen in the room, I expect to be able to take him at his word on that. Outside of that, I've not done any testing and I won't be growing out any of the offspring from "him" until early next year...but when I do, there is all kinds of crazy grail type combinations to sort!

Time will tell the story, I suppose. For what it's worth - a few folks found "males" in the peyote purple seeds from charlie garcia - and it was THAT occurrence that got Tom and others talking about it in the first place...

This is NOT the first time a "male" has surfaced from what was supposed to be a feminized line - but it is the first time I have heard of such happening with the chem '91 line when s1'ed....

I really don't want to say it is or isn't anything - all I know is I trust those who were involved in it to be honest, as they are not gaining anything financially or what have you - so there is no real motivation for them to be dishonest or misleading about what took place.

I mean - to this very day, we are still discovering NEW species of animals and plants in the rainforest...we know more about what is in outer space than we do about what lies in the depths of the oceans...I don't put it outside of the realm of possibility that there will ALWAYS be something new to learn or discover or study or figure out - just because "it hasn't happened yet" or because the probability is very small - does NOT eliminate the possibility of such happening, ya know.

I think we live in an amazingly fascinating world - and it only serves science to go forward and study / learn when the unexplained does in fact happen...

Now - if this plant, the chem '91 "male" - breeds ALL xx offspring, regardless of how they physically present themselves, then we'll know for certain that something yet fully understood has taken place. IF he breed xy and xx offspring, then I suppose it MIGHT be fair to assume there was a contamination that took place somehow - I guess.

I'm not entirely sure how to proceed with what remains or what was made, in the realm of scientific testing to provide the necessary data that is needed to make more concrete evaluations - that is in part, what I was hoping would eventually be discussed by bringing the happening to the light of the community at large...you know - so we can all enjoy and learn from this together...



dank.Frank

 

[OvergrowDaWorld]

So far so good with the C+ x 91S1 'male'.

Negative37dBA did a grow diary on a C+ x Chem D (or 91 or something) he made........
if your interested in checking it out?

 

[GMT]

I'm not entirely sure how to proceed with what remains or what was made, in the realm of scientific testing to provide the necessary data that is needed to make more concrete evaluations - that is in part, what I was hoping would eventually be discussed by bringing the happening to the light of the community at large...you know - so we can all enjoy and learn from this together...

dank.Frank

If I may make a suggestion. try reversing it. A male will give you pistils, a broken hermy female may not be able to. it wont rule it out as the latter if it does, but it would rule out the former if it wont.

 

[The Hummus Monk]

Reversing the male?

The male's dead. Muahahahahaaaaaa

 

[MOneYMiKe]

Ahhh....and the plot thickens.....duh dum!!......
But you culled the male? Jejejejejeje

 

[The Hummus Monk]

Sure did...I looked him square in the eyes as i pulled the trigger.

Saved pollen...distributed pollen...killed him.

 

[dank.frank]

GMT - is there a way to test the offspring to see what is taking place??

Considering, the skunkVa cut is available...and there are "pure" '91 beans - could the mother be DNA tested against her offspring - because technically, there should be no genetic DNA difference...IF there was no contamination from a different pollen donor....correct?



dank.Frank

 

[mack 10]

^ correct but I don't think the technology is there yet?
DNA testing is gonna be sweet, when it arrives, if it arrives.

 

[dank.frank]

Well, I think you can DNA test a plant for the sake of comparing two results to each other and seeing if there are any differences in the sequencing. It isn't like saying - oh yeah, this one has skunk and this one has kush - but rather - are they the same sequence. THAT much should be able to be determined as the cannabis genome has been mapped to the best of my knowledge since late 2011...by these folks...

http://www.medicinalgenomics.com/



dank.Frank

 

[joe-brand]

wow

 

[dank.frank]

Hey Joe - if you are THE joe - great to see you online. Just so you know - this isn't like that TK thread...lol. Given this one is in part your baby. This thread has been continued by a bunch of hobbyist passionate about this plant...and the chem lines in general. I'm really glad this freak of a "male" surfaced just for the sole ability to sort what will be a genetically pure set of chem lines.

Know I know when you S1 you are keeping it pure, compiling the plant upon itself to see how much variation exists in the line, etc - but - if this "male" when paired with the skunkVa cut (which it has been) produces a more stable / consistent line of females that say a series of Chem '91 s1's - regardless, it will be highly interesting. I'm pretty sure before it's all said and done, sister, D and the #3 will have been pollinated by this "male".

Personally, I'm just excited to see what comes of these pure chem lines - and what can be done with them when more males exist to select from. I know for sure I'll inbreed the different plants within the family line - and the best thing we have to compare them to for a successful line breeding is JJNYC's work with stardawg lines, etc. At least we have some sort of bar so to speak for which to aim for...

Get that post count up joe - if you are THE joe - unless you are just some flake pawning a name...lol...hope not!!



dank.Frank

 

[Efficient_watt]

diploid vs polyploid

diploid vs polyploid

Hi all,
I'm far from being an expert in genetics, and so what follows might be completely useless, sorry if it ends up being just that. I just thought I'd throw it out there, just in case.

You are talking about these plants as if they have to be diploid, like humans (XX, XY). But don't they have the potential to be polyploid (XXYX, XXYY for ex.). Therefore can't females carry a Y chromosome, and not express it, but pass it on ?

I thought that was the reason why they can reverse, sorry if this is nonsense, just trying to help

CYA,
EW

 

[Tierra Rojo]

Cob hit a few plants with that pollen. One being The White. We ran tons of them and did indeed find a "male". Our Super Nintendo Male AKA "Julia Child". It passes all the Chem and white traits with 50\50 offspring. We popped the 91S1s at the same time and no males. I recently popped the rest and now have a full on Skunk VA "male". We popped over 50 total and came up with just the one. The W91 "male" is amazing. Far and away one of the most predictable boys in the collection. I have no reason to believe the 91 won't be the same. I also have "male" Bubba Ghost and OG Jam from CBF. The shit happens and they breed more boys.

 

[MOneYMiKe]

Yay more 91 lady boy pollen.....ttul

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

Anybody have any plans to do 91SkVa x 91SkVa male?

 

[The Hummus Monk]

That cross is happening yes. Also D, and 3.

But they won't be going to the bay...the offspring may be used in a Stank Bros cross though.

 

[The Hummus Monk]

Tierra Rojo - You found one too! Got any pics? Does his stem smell funky with a bit of mint?

 

[frankenstein2]

While we are on the subject of weird shit happening that no one can explain and science doesn't back up. I'm almost positive philthy had a plant that did spontaneous sex reversal. He even put up some pics. So getting a male from s1 seeds seems possible too me. Scientifically it doesn't make sense, but neither does my old lady most of the time, and believe me she's an anomaly too!!!!