Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[2tm23]

Thanks you very much BurnOne I keep reading entire thread and i know more and more and thank you all guys for posting all good info about organics. I keep asking because im on page 50 but my grow starts in 2 weeks so i need info pretty much right now.

Do you know anything about earthworms? And humic acid dosage? Probably wont need it if ill apply EWC but as ive got it already i could use it then?

Can you use reciepe #1 for used soil? Im thinking about going for this one nxt time as its cheaper and easier for me to get all amendments.

What annoys me most people keep asking about your recipes but wont post any results (at least none till page 50).

Keep up good work B1

 

[BurnOne]

Thanks you very much BurnOne I keep reading entire thread and i know more and more and thank you all guys for posting all good info about organics. I keep asking because im on page 50 but my grow starts in 2 weeks so i need info pretty much right now.

Do you know anything about earthworms? And humic acid dosage? Probably wont need it if ill apply EWC but as ive got it already i could use it then?

Can you use reciepe #1 for used soil? Im thinking about going for this one nxt time as its cheaper and easier for me to get all amendments.

What annoys me most people keep asking about your recipes but wont post any results (at least none till page 50).

Keep up good work B1

You're making this too complicated. Just follow the directions. After you get a couple of grows finished you'll be self reliant. That's why I'm here.
Burn1

 

[2tm23]

No no dont get me wrong im not trying to change anything in your recipe its just if ive got thing like humic acid and earthworms already id like to use it, dont like leftovers but i assume you just dont know the dosage of HA or anything about worms so you dont want to misguide me. Thanks anyway

 

[Payaso]

Howdy 2tm23 ! - I believe BurnOne has great advice, keep it simple...

I know this is daunting to read - fifty pages of this thread would make anyone's head spin!

But you've got the basics now, keep on growing and see what happens next... and let us know

 

[2tm23]

I dont belive it - i know it. Guy is great, has so much of knowlege willing to share it and a patience when comes to newbies like most on here. I consider myself somewhere between newbie and pro, got like 3 years of growing so...

Anyway, again, im going to keep it simple without changing recipe but worms shouldnt make any harm being source of EWC and humic acid being one of its final product? Just asked about dosage, but again it looks like you dont know so ill keep searching.

Thanks

 

[Carbon.Chains]

2tm23-
Don't worry about the greensand, rock phosphate and DE. They are very slow release and de is not plant food.
Burn1

Hey BurnOne,

Since it is a source of silica, isn't DE as much "plant food" as rock phosphate or greensand are?
Or am I missing something here?

Thanks,
C-C

 

[BurnOne]

No no dont get me wrong im not trying to change anything in your recipe its just if ive got thing like humic acid and earthworms already id like to use it, dont like leftovers but i assume you just dont know the dosage of HA or anything about worms so you dont want to misguide me. Thanks anyway

I dont belive it - i know it. Guy is great, has so much of knowlege willing to share it and a patience when comes to newbies like most on here. I consider myself somewhere between newbie and pro, got like 3 years of growing so...

Anyway, again, im going to keep it simple without changing recipe but worms shouldnt make any harm being source of EWC and humic acid being one of its final product? Just asked about dosage, but again it looks like you dont know so ill keep searching.

Thanks

Peat and worm castings are full of humic acid.

Hey BurnOne,

Since it is a source of silica, isn't DE as much "plant food" as rock phosphate or greensand are?
Or am I missing something here?

Thanks,
C-C

"Food" is nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium (N-P-K).
Burn1

 

[healthygreen]

Great thread here!
After reading hours and hours in the world wide web and books I am now ready to start with my own mixed organic soil but I would love to get some advice from you.


What do you think about this recipe?



Basic Soil:

Gold Label Light Mix (EC 0,8)
+10-20% vermiculite

Additives per cubic foot:

1 cup of of alfalfa meal (2/3) and flaxseed or canola meal (1/3)
for replacing blood meal (N). More alfalfa than flaxseed as of the fertilized soil; no need for concern about heat due to rapid decomposition of alfalfa?

1 cup indonesian bat guano (2-15-2)
for replacing bone meal (4-20-0)

¼ cup kelp meal (Ascophyllum nodosum)

1 tbsp mycorrhizal fungi
Glomus mosseae and Glomus Intraradices, no Trichodermae

¼ cup diabase dust

Palm tree ashes (0-3-14) for topdress at 4th week of flowering?



AACT (5 gallons, Bacterial tea for vegetative stage, fungal tea for flowering stage for taking up more phosphorus):

1 cup alfalfa + canola meal (equal parts)
or 2 tbls. Like microbeman says? Alfalfa replacing with yarrow after growth hast stopped and russian comfrey for further flowering?

2 tsp. unsulfured molasses
or ½ cup like Tim Wilson aka microbeman writes on his website?

½ cup earth compound (progress earth)

2 cups worm castings

½ cup fish enzyme
or 2-3 tsp according to microbeman?

½ cup mexican bat guano for vegetative brew?
½ cup Peruvian seabird guano for beginning flowering brew?
½ cup indonesian bat guano for progressed flowering brew?



What do you think is best, adding the guano to the brewer, topdressing or mixing it into the soil?



Diabase dust info:

SiO2
46.63%
CaO
7.32%
MgO
6.46%
K2O
0.92%

Compared to Azomite:

SiO2
65.85%
CaO
3.67% (enough for replacing dolomite lime?)
MgO
0.78% (no need for epsom salt?)
K2O
5.23%


Can you give me any suggestions for optimizing my recipe?

I am really impressed of the knowledge of you here, big big thanks for spreading it!

 

[SirKaos]

only 10% of those are available where I live.

I think someone should do a recipe for organic growers of the most commonly available material.

that would be very helpful

 

[Carbon.Chains]

Well, around where do you live? What is available to you?
Have you sent e mails, called, or otherwise contacted any local company related to what you need?
You d be amazed what s available locally after a bit of digging.

I would guess as a general statement, most available would be... outdoor soil?
Peat moss is pretty common too. Compost can be made in most places and vermicompost everywhere.
For outdoor soil, find someone where weeds grow vigorously. Some weeds appear when there is deficiencies so still be a bit careful.
Nettles are a good indicator of fertility.

Also, most of these weeds could be turned into amendments, dry and grind them to powder. If you live near a sea or ocean, there is seaweed, crab shells, fishes.
If you live somewhere volcanic you ll have no problem sourcing lava rock / pumice and its dust.
If you have a forest near you, there is readily available leaf mold in huge quantities.

The possibilities for this recipe are endless, I doubt someone could make a general one since what is "most commonly available" completely changes from region to region.

 

[SirKaos]

Well, around where do you live? What is available to you?
Have you sent e mails, called, or otherwise contacted any local company related to what you need?
You d be amazed what s available locally after a bit of digging.

I would guess as a general statement, most available would be... outdoor soil?
Peat moss is pretty common too. Compost can be made in most places and vermicompost everywhere.
For outdoor soil, find someone where weeds grow vigorously. Some weeds appear when there is deficiencies so still be a bit careful.
Nettles are a good indicator of fertility.

Also, most of these weeds could be turned into amendments, dry and grind them to powder. If you live near a sea or ocean, there is seaweed, crab shells, fishes.
If you live somewhere volcanic you ll have no problem sourcing lava rock / pumice and its dust.
If you have a forest near you, there is readily available leaf mold in huge quantities.

The possibilities for this recipe are endless, I doubt someone could make a general one since what is "most commonly available" completely changes from region to region.

yeah I agree with all what you have to say. I live in the Middle east and I do use all that the sea had to offer. Maybe instead of rock phosphate for example i can use biochar?

I will adapt to what I can find, but when you call local shops that claim to sell organic ferts, you'll also be surprised how little knowledge they have in a lot of the components mentioned in this thread.

I Highly rate this thread! Its just that you get lots of forum user in the MJ world who want to reply and say anything and whatever and that info remains on the net which could be misleading.

 

[Carbon.Chains]

Biochar acts more as a house for microbes than a nutrient source. Fish bones could replace rock phosphate, they would be available faster too.
Kelp and/or wood ash for K and some kind of ground leaf for N.
That's already the three primary macronutrients, plus the trace elements from kelp and certainly a bit more than this.
Maybe pottery companies will have calcined clay, construction companies may have rock dusts.

 

[Species8472]

Hello Organic-Growers,

I'm trying to wrap my head around all the stuff around here, but sheesh... that's a lot of reading.

I try to figure out a good Soil-Recipe with Ingredients I can get my hands on here in Germany, but it seems there is always at least one component missing for the recipes I find. Bloodmeal for example is a p.i.t.a. to find around here... some people seem to use it to make their own dog-food, but I don't know if it's the same stuff and if I want it near my plants.

Here's what I can get my hands on:
- Compost-soil from a local supplier, it is really cheap, bagged and "steamed"
- Wormcastings
- Perlite

- Guano, either as pellets or powder
- Palmash
- Seaweedpowder
- Cottonseedpowder
- Vulcanclaysoil
- Bonemeal

My goal would be to make a one mix for the vegetative growth and one for the flowering which only needs plain water.

 

[canna woop!]

yeah I agree with all what you have to say. I live in the Middle east and I do use all that the sea had to offer. Maybe instead of rock phosphate for example i can use biochar?

I will adapt to what I can find, but when you call local shops that claim to sell organic ferts, you'll also be surprised how little knowledge they have in a lot of the components mentioned in this thread.

I Highly rate this thread! Its just that you get lots of forum user in the MJ world who want to reply and say anything and whatever and that info remains on the net which could be misleading.

That's the problem, they are trying to sell you something. There isn't any one who focuses most their effort building an organic farm you can just buy an organic fertilizer from. The right question I think would be what's in this food? Do you (would be fertilizer salesman) mix any secret ingredient in the soil? Why is it so tasty The other thing is they might have plant starts, a great way to increase the diversity in your compost and botanical preparations

 

[Species8472]

I stumbled upon this organix soil powder on the internet:

Complete Organics fertilizer mix developed by Bio Grow in cooperation with Femeg – GK-Organics. Guanokalong powder is mixed in combination with GK-Organics products like: sea weed powder, palm tree ashes, cotton seed powder, fish powder and volcanic loam. This unique mix of products represents a full body pure organic NPK value with loads of trace elements.​

pH value 5.9, EC value 1.3 (1:1.5 extr.)


N-P-K 2-5-3
​

For ~200 liters of soil

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]100 l steamed compost
60 l perlite
40 l worm castings
2 kg Guanokalong complete mix

Would this be a viable mix?
I know that steamed compost is far from ideal, b/c the useful stuff in the compost gets killed along with the unwanted during the steaming, but the worm castings should bring the life back to my mix, don't they?
[/FONT]

 

[Snype]

Thank you Burn for this thread! I'm am trying organics for the first time in my life. I want to use the mix below. I have some questions though. The batch of organic mix that I am going to make will require 5 bags of Fox Farm Ocean Forest Soil. After I mix it up do I leave the soil on a concrete floor all exposed? Do I put it into a few garbage bags instead and leave them open? Can someone tell me the best way for me to do this? Also it is getting cold here. When the mix is sitting for 2 weeks, does it need to be at a certain temperature? are temps in the 50's bad for mixing this soil mix?


LC's Soiless Mix #2:

6 parts Fox Farm Ocean Forest
2 parts perlite
2 parts earthworm castings
Powdered (NOT PELLETED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
If you use a 3 qt. saucepan as “parts” in the amounts given above, it equals about 1 cu. ft. of soiless mix and you can just dump in a cup of powdered dolomite lime. The dolomite lime is for Ca. and Mg. not just to adjust the PH of the soil.


RECIPE #1

If you want to use organic nutrients like Blood meal, Bone meal and Kelp meal...

1 tablespoon Blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons Bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed
(OPTIONAL) 1 tablespoon per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of

 

[Carbon.Chains]

Thank you Burn for this thread! I'm am trying organics for the first time in my life. I want to use the mix below. I have some questions though. The batch of organic mix that I am going to make will require 5 bags of Fox Farm Ocean Forest Soil. After I mix it up do I leave the soil on a concrete floor all exposed? Do I put it into a few garbage bags instead and leave them open? Can someone tell me the best way for me to do this? Also it is getting cold here. When the mix is sitting for 2 weeks, does it need to be at a certain temperature? are temps in the 50's bad for mixing this soil mix?


LC's Soiless Mix #2:

6 parts Fox Farm Ocean Forest
2 parts perlite
2 parts earthworm castings
Powdered (NOT PELLETED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
If you use a 3 qt. saucepan as “parts” in the amounts given above, it equals about 1 cu. ft. of soiless mix and you can just dump in a cup of powdered dolomite lime. The dolomite lime is for Ca. and Mg. not just to adjust the PH of the soil.

Hey Snype
Doesn't really matter whether you leave the soil on a concrete floor or put it in garbage bags.
I would let it sit for more than 2 weeks though, more like 4 minimum. Especially if it's getting cold, it will require more time. Other than that 50F is fine.

The "best" way to do it IMO would be letting it sit outside so it gets inoculated with indigenous microbes and more... And covered with a tarp or similar so it doesn't fly away.

If I may say a thing or two about the recipe, hoping you don't already know this and I'm not being redundant...:
Dolomite lime might not be the best option as a Ca and Mg source; it doesn't have the best reputation to say the least.
I'm pretty sure dolomite lime has a Ca:Mg ratio of 2:1 and you want a ratio of 7:1 or 8:1, you can achieve that by using gypsum, shell flour (egg, oyster, crab) with the dolomite.
Perlite also has a bad reputation but is prefered by others. It will go to the top of your container after a while too.
I don't have FoxFarm where I live but I've read it is overpriced and can be replaced with peatmoss to some extent (might have to change the ratios and make sure you lime enough to correct the pH, - although the microherd will do that with time anyway).
You would probably have no problem growing the mix you've quoted but I assume you want the best results. Just my 2c. (Pun intended)

 

[bigshrimp]

Snype - Fifty degrees or so is a little cold so I'd defiantly recommend keeping it all in a single pile. The cook times will be a little slower so you can mix molasses with water and wet the mix with that.

The molasses will provide some easy energy for soil microbes, which will kickstart the cooking/curing process. Using an compost tea, or mixing some local topsoil should provide diversity which will help your soil develop faster and more completely.

 

[BurnOne]

are temps in the 50's bad for mixing this soil mix?

Well, think about why you put your food in the refrigerator. It slows down the activity of the bacteria. 50 degrees F isn't going to make a big difference but you might want to let it go three weeks at that temperature.
All you are waiting on anyway is for the bone meal to break down. The blood/alfalfa and kelp are fast release. If you're planting seedlings, it will be several weeks before the plants flower and need the phosphorous from the bone anyway.
Go for it. Take a chance, Columbus and Armstrong did.
Burn1

 

[Snype]

Nice! I should be able to get all the ingredients by the weekend and start my mix! I'm going to do a F13 (F2) test grow with this mix. Can't wait to see how easy I fuck it all up. LOL!