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Dank Demons Perpetual 3600 watt LED 18 plant SCROG

babelfish

Member
hey cc,
so if you water less,with less nutrients,how do you expect to get normal sized plants? also light moves faster through hotter air,so to reduce temps,is also to reduce the speed at which the photon's travel? this is my understanding on the issue .if it is not correct please enlighten me as i am always willing to learn ?

is not nearly correct. you need to understand work and entropy. everything eventually radiates as heat - this is the background sound of the cosmos.

From another of my posts:


First Greetz. Luv the thread, love the goal, hope to join y'all soon in it. With this in mind my opinions of the subject and not any individual follow. :D

Been gone awhile but the budroom never quit.

HIDs heat up the walls, tables, floors, and ceiling. Air has to pull the heat from the surfaces to get it out of the room.

A 600w LED produces 600w of heat, a 600 watt HID produces 600w of heat, that is what a watt measures.

An LED is cooled by a finned radiator heating up the air circulated around it. The 600w of heat goes directly into the air and merely needs to be routed out of the room.

An HID radiates heat into all those surfaces mentioned and they soak up the heat and hold it, requiring cool air to circulate throughout the entire room pulling heat from the surfaces before exiting.

Wow, that is an awful lot more air and the heat has to be handled more than once.
This is why they say LEDs run cooler, not because it is true but because the heat is so much easier to manage it just seems as if there is less of it.

2240 watts of HGL and 714 watts of Magnum, plus still have 2000 watts of CMH and 3100 watts fluorescent.
Did a few years testing stuff for fun. Kept the lights and still use them.

Now that the Poppy research is done I can talk on this forum again. Some plants are frowned upon.
At 6 KWH per mg of yield I can see why indoor poppy is not popular. LEDs make it possible if not practical.

The poppy was mentioned because it takes 2.5 times as much energy to grow as MJ, giving lots of experience in handling heat.

Actually the difference is WASTED energy.

Whoever said watts are heat, is right. Watts are also defined by V x A. Which is voltage and amperage's product.
Well, that would be the what is released convection-wise, and the light output flux. The LED to the heatsink...or HPS to air. So we get rid of the heat, almost all of it.

Although a lot of people mull around this question..I will just say it...once I say it..you will know I am the devilgoob.

The LED's put out usable light at two frequencies. The HID's put out light we can't see and also IR light, which heats up water.

What I mean is, the HID radiates light, the plant gets hot and acts as a heatsink and that's why even with it hood-cooled it still is warm. The plants act as radiators that get rid of the excess heat created by far-red heating of the plant. :artist:

So it's radiative warming, then convection off the plants.

From Wiki:

-Rotational transitions, in which the molecule gains a quantum of rotational energy. Atmospheric water vapour at ambient temperature and pressure gives rise to absorption in the far-infrared region of the spectrum, from about 200 cm-1 (50 µm) to longer wavelengths towards the microwave region.

-Vibrational transitions in which a molecule gains a quantum of vibrational energy. The fundamental transitions give rise to absorption in the mid-infrared in the regions around 1650 cm-1 (µ band, 6 µm) and 3500 cm-1 (X-band, 2.9 µm)

-Electronic transitions in which a molecule is promoted to an excited electronic state. The lowest energy transition of this type is in the vacuum ultraviolet region.

Here is a link of the frequencies more absorbed
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Water_light_absorption_coefficient.gif


You did good son.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt
One watt is the rate at which work is done when an object's velocity is held constant at one meter per second against constant opposing force of one newton.

In terms of electromagnetism, one watt is the rate at which work is done when one ampere (A) of current flows through an electrical potential difference of one volt (V).

Two additional unit conversions for watt can be found using the above equation and Ohm's Law.

Where ohm () is the SI derived unit of electrical resistance.
Examples[edit]

A person having a mass of 100 kilograms who climbs a 3-meter-high ladder in 5 seconds is doing work at a rate of about 600 watts. Mass times acceleration due to gravity times height divided by the time it takes to lift the object to the given height gives the rate of doing work or power.[notes 1]
A laborer over the course of an 8-hour day can sustain an average output of about 75 watts; higher power levels can be achieved for short intervals and by athletes.[1]
A medium-sized passenger automobile engine is rated at 50 to 150 kilowatts[2] – while cruising it will typically yield half that amount.
A typical household incandescent light bulb has a power rating of 25 to 100 watts; a similar amount of light would be produced by fluorescent lamps at 5 to 30 watts, or LED lamps at 5 to 20 watts.
A typical coal power station produces around 600–700 megawatts. A typical unit in a nuclear power plant has an electrical power output of 900–1300 megawatts.

the light hits your hand then bounces off at a lower energy level, leaving heat behind...

better - yes better.

We are talking in terms of work. The work the ballast on the led/hid does. when it does conversions of energy inefficiently, we feel it get hot.
When our LED's run and they get hot they push heat to the top and fans blow it away.
When our HID's get hot they radiate a lot of heat.

The point is WHAT that energy goes into. Atoms can absorb photons. Sometimes they give off a photon as well. sometimes no chemical work can be done by the incoming photon and its energy gets wasted in normal kinetics.

It all goes to heat eventually, but the point is that not all of it has to.

If led's push 90% of their energy directly into the area the plants can use, and have a dense canopy to radiate at, it makes complete sense that this TARGETED radiation would be more effective per watt than HPS. good ballasts with good led's SHOULD have less waste heat based on an equal pull @ the wall.

But as other systems bleed - some of this heat gets released back.

Its called entropy.

namaste~
 

Dope time

Member
Recently been Informed by a 3yr+ Veteran of LEDs (Sure) that there is no Difference in Feed Rates Rather (as with hps,etc) much Depends on the Strain

Bleached by [led] Light.The .5 (1/2 Bleached) is the Same Strain.Others are ok!?
picture.php


Apologies for any ill feeling caused Cc :)
 
J

jaded1

Dope time,have you tried moving the pots around,have had the same thing happen and came to the conclusion that certain spots end up with too much of just 1 spectum.
Only really happens when they are small as once they get bigger it stops being a prob.
 

Dope time

Member
Hmmn Not sure Tho J1
On Bleaching the Light Wouldnt of been Less than 2.5' Away and i Believe because of the Size of the LED the Seedlings would all receive the 9 Spectrums(?) of light.Probably Would at less than a Foot if you Dare go that Close..(Have Reason Too etc)
Sure their Designed with this in Mind J1.Smaller ones too
Again Good Theory Tho Thx ;)


picture.php

The 900W (Current) is on the left 1200W on the Right

[BTW Hear That Bleached Bud is Quite Tasty.Has a Nice Flavour!]

Bubble Buckets Started Leaking on me because of Making do "Couldn't find 32mm ID Rubber Washers Anywhere on EBay.All but :("
Previously
 

Dope time

Member
Previously Ill Chem4D from PH Inbalance

Previously Ill Chem4D from PH Inbalance

:),Heads up here DD.After 4 Weeks and Flower from the 1st the Plant has Picked up and is Starting Vertical Growth (again)

picture.php

Sure if you Stick with Yours you will See the same in a Few Weeks
Fed Mine Nothing but water apart from the last time which was as Normal.

Previously
picture.php


Currently. 07/10
picture.php
 
J

jaded1

Ah,ok,with my smaller units i can get with-in 8",actually my 2 older lighthouse units i can have them within a couple of inches away without getting any bleaching.
For me it seemed like the seedling/young plant under the uv bulb would always suffer
 

Dank Demon

Growing herb is a way of life!
Veteran
:),Heads up here DD.After 4 Weeks and Flower from the 1st the Plant
has Picked up and is Starting Vertical Growth (again)

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=48324&pictureid=1146021&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Sure if you Stick with Yours you will See the same in a Few Weeks
Fed Mine Nothing but water apart from the last time which was as Normal.

Previously [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=48324&pictureid=1144529&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

Hey bro, I am now getting vertical green growth since reducing e.c and flushing :)
 

babelfish

Member
hm, i was looking over my last post, and one point I was trying to make didn't seem clear.

(as i recall) photosynthesis basically uses the energy of the photons it can absorb to break and build chemical bonds.

when it does so, the energy the photon represents is converted into raw energy that gets repurposed to build/hold the molecule together.

This molecule holds the 'potential energy' while it remains in a given state.

When the molecule breaks down, when energy is extracted (like when we eat food) energy is released again.

Anything that doesn't go into potential stored in chemical bonds will be released as waste heat.


Waste heat is teh infrared photons.
 

Chevy cHaze

Out Of Dankness Cometh Light
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Thanks for putting this together babelfish.
My reply's kinda late, sorry... but I think this will help some guys here to understand more about the subject.
 

Dank Demon

Growing herb is a way of life!
Veteran
Even though things where picking up slightly it was taking too long for me and it was costing more in leccy and time than the plants where putting out, so I scrapped the lot and I am in the process of germinating 18 different seed strains that will be very interesting as rare seeds are among'st them :) I will be also using pure coco in the 3" net pots and converting the spay bars underneath to dripper lines above. I will be running the UC underneath and will be adding airstones under each site. So when that's all done pics will start as will be still using the LEDs.
 

Dope time

Member
Yep was thinking Exactly that M8!.. My One time PH Ill Chem4d is taking ages to Recover (but it is Slowly) and sure yours were even more ill looking than this so in Conparrison (and yours were Smaller!) I would say your Maybe looking at 2 months(+?)
Not Worth The Deminning Effect on ya mind and Wallet.Yea you've Done the Right Thing.

Pic of the Chem4d ^ Shortly.Been in flower 9-10 Days
picture.php


picture.php


Including the Near 2 Weeks of Flower that had been Ill Around 6 weeks! (+)
1 thank God
 

SupaFunk

Well-known member
Veteran
I am in the process of germinating 18 different seed strains that will be very interesting as rare seeds are among'st them :)

This is where it's at my friend. Any one of those 18 have the potential to be something very special. Best of luck, here's to a load of keepers!
 

Piff Rhys Jones

🌴 Hugging Trees 🌴
Veteran
Even though things where picking up slightly it was taking too long for me and it was costing more in leccy and time than the plants where putting out, so I scrapped the lot and I am in the process of germinating 18 different seed strains that will be very interesting as rare seeds are among'st them :) I will be also using pure coco in the 3" net pots and converting the spay bars underneath to dripper lines above. I will be running the UC underneath and will be adding airstones under each site. So when that's all done pics will start as will be still using the LEDs.

Difficult but wise choice DD. Good luck with your fresh start.

Peace
 
J

jaded1

Good luck DD,gonna have to start calling you baskin robins with all those different flavours on the go.
What have you started?
 

Chevy cHaze

Out Of Dankness Cometh Light
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Yeah DD,
What's sproutin' ?
However, I guess you made the right decision ...
good luck with the new round, keen on the details
 

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