Man... Let me tell you my story - yield and grams per watt

[colon stewart]

Keeping to whats relevant... I lived in England from 2000 to 2005. I stopped smoking for a while but decided to start again after a year or so. I asked a friend at work to sort me out an ounce. He said, "Sure, come round my house". I popped round, he said here's your ounce and take a look in my loft / attic. He had a 3.5x.3.5m room full of it, 2x days away from harvest. 4x 1000w hps, 4x girls under each, 1.2x1.5m per light per 4x plants. I had never seen that before, very very impressive, something nature won't do on her own.

I had just bought a house and my friends suggestions was... "Get it going in your place", my response was "**** yeah!". I gave him £2,000, he bought all the equipment and consumables, came to my place installed it all, gave me clones, showed me everything.

(long time ago, now i don't re-call everything perfectly). Pots had layer of hydroton at the bottom, rest was 50/50 coco perlite. Canna A and B Flores i think was used, with PK13/14 and the Hydrogarden Dry Flower 4x part range of additives.

Pots were placed in trays and bottom fed. Strains i believe was white rhino and mother's finest, (from sensi, i think). I see mother's finest is sensi, so i assume the rhino was from sensi too.

Anyways, 4x week veg, 8x week flower, 1000w 4x HPS, 16x plants, 1.2x1.5m space under each light, 4x plants under each, and... it came out at about 4.2kg each time, a little over 1 gpw.

Imagine... You bumped into someone who showed you / gave you all of that!!

Anyways... in 2006 i moved to South Africa, Johannesburg, (many reasons). I decided growing was not a career move, i wasn't going to do it again. There's plenty of outdoor in Africa, why bother.

However... in 2010 i decided i needed grow again, (many reasons). So...

I went about setting things up as closely as i could to what i was shown in the UK...

15L pots filled with 50/50 coco perlite, bottom layer of hydroton, 4x under a light, plenty of space, 1.2x1.5m per light, per 4x plants. Canna nutes aren't available in South Africa so i've ended up using GHE, Lucas formula seemed to work best.

Since 2010 i've had many trials and tribulations... First thing i found out was the canna coco we were using in the UK is PH corrected, but at least now i know to Ph correct the medium before use.

Basically... since growing in Johannesburg I've been getting a pretty consistent 0.5 grams per watt... Half of what i was getting in the UK.

I have been trying everything i can to improve this and get it back to what i was shown in the UK. Johannesburg is 1,600m above sea level... This is the one variable i cannot change.

Otherwise i have... 3200w, (2x 1000s and 2x 600s) 16x pots, 4x under each light, 50/50 coco/perlite, layer of hydroton, GHE nutes using Lucas formula, all air cooled reflectors, temps 22 to 32 celcius, big mist maker and humidistat, 40% humidity. I'm using phillips 1000w hps bulbs and 600w sun masters, lights are the same as UK, humidity is the same, temps are the same, medium is the same.

Selection of strains... white widow max from marijuana-seeds.nl chronic from seriousseeds.org, super sk from a friend, most recently and not yet flowered, white rhino and white widow from green house seeds, and liberty haze, pineapple chunk, grape ape, critical kush from barney's farm. The chronic i bought 20x seeds and only kept the best 2. All seeds i've bought recently i will only keep the best 1-2 of 10.

I have never gotten more than 1.6kg from 3000w in Johannesburg, where as it was 4.2kg from 4000w in the UK.

Basically, i'm asking / pleading for someone to tell me / advise me... where am i going wrong? Been 3x years now, many cycles and haven't significantly broken the 0.5gpw figure.

Strains are different, but i have tried a few now and all come out around 0.5gpw, so i'm not sure if its strain.

Nutes are different. GHE Lucas now instead of Canna, but i bought load of aditives, GHE bloom and root boosters, canna PK13/14 imported, even imported the dry flower 4x part program... none made any real difference

Altitude is different, Johannesburg is 1,600 meters above sea level, UK is at sea level.

I've let the plant get too big sometimes and end up with a lot of wastage on the lower branches, this time i'm flicking smaller.

I phoned the guy who showed me it all, he moved to Australia, doesn't do it any more and could not really tell me the secret, (i'm not sure he knew himself). I called the grow shop in the UK we were using, but they point blank refused to say anthing on the phone. I'm posting this on a lot of forums in the hope of getting the "silver bullet" answer, or even pointed in the right direction would be good.

It was so easy in the UK, it just happened, 4kg every 3x months, 1gpw, but... now i'm struggling for years and don't know why.

I'm going try with the latest seeds i've bought, GHS WW and WR, and Barney's Farm, range of 600g per m2 strains. If i still get the same result with them i suppose i will fligh to Amsterdam and buy Sensi White Rhino, (they don't ship to South Africa).


Anyways... If any of you ever wondered is 1gpw possible, answer is yes definitely, the first 4-5 grows i did i got that, under some expert tutorlidge in the UK with Canna nutes, but...

Now in Johannesburg with GHE nutes, Lucas formula, all of the above, i simply cannot get more than 0.5gpw.


This is having a bad effect on my life in general. It may be a "dependant arising", but... dam! i have to get it back to 1gpw.


Please, please, please... any good advice is very much appreciated, (only respond if you know wtf your talking about, there's millions of punks out there with different stories), if your not getting around 1gpw you may be one of them.

Responses from those who know what they're doing are highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

 

[one.sixoneeight]

Why not source the canna nutes, it's the logical first step to this equation.

 

[AlterEgo860]

great story.. but honestly.. its more about using the lights the right way.. vegging ur plants the right way.. and maybe hanging the 600s vertical will help wen u got trees..

 

[soursmoker]

training and environment is more key to yielding gram per watts then the light is... if you keep adding more lights and not focusing on the first 2 variables your gram per watt ratio will never go up... only your total yield...

also like the other guy said... trying sourcing the canna nutes... see if that changes anything...

temps and humidity could be the problem? what are environmental conditions like?

 

[Elmer Bud]

G`day Colon

What is the EC of your water supply ?
Do you have good ventilation ? Other than those two factors . I`d be sourcing some more seeds and selecting some better yielders . Best of luck on your quest .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[MildeStoner]

Howzit, also from SA here.
You are working with different strains are you not? Different genetics are suited to different grow styles, some strains only seem to yield well when using high plant numbers.
And the 2 600's you replaced the 1000's with to make 3200w not 4k won't have the same penetration/footprint as their predecessors, you'd have to have them lower and closer together to achieve the same thing, better suited to small plants than 4 large ones under each 1kw.

 

[gaiusmarius]

are you using clones or growing from seed?
how is the water quality, fluoride?
try growing 20 plants per sq meter, with less veg time.
experiment with nutrient levels, some strains love high levels other hate high nute levels.
how well did you clean the hydroton before you used it? some of that stuff is so dusty it will mess everything up, specially the ph level.
do you have a ph and ec meter?
if you were running full label recommended dose you were most likely overfeeding your plants and screwing with the yield that way.
i recommend switching to pure coco coir, (clean and pre flushed)

gl

 

[LyryC]

are you using clones or growing from seed?
how is the water quality, fluoride?
try growing 20 plants per sq meter, with less veg time.
experiment with nutrient levels, some strains love high levels other hate high nute levels.
how well did you clean the hydroton before you used it? some of that stuff is so dusty it will mess everything up, specially the ph level.
do you have a ph and ec meter?
if you were running full label recommended dose you were most likely overfeeding your plants and screwing with the yield that way.
i recommend switching to pure coco coir, (clean and pre flushed)

gl

Without hempy style - he won't make the 1 GPW imo. Maybe the perilite can be skipped but not the hydroton on the bottom - coco has just okay aeration alone - but when mixed its supreme.

 

[gaiusmarius]

sorry but i just have to laugh when i hear statements like that about coco.

in the end it depends on how you want to grow with the coco medium. there are many ways to use the coco coir as a medium.

if you want to get the most from it, use it pure as the hydroponic medium it is, with automated drip irrigation. if you want to use it like soil. THEN feel free to mix it with any thing you want. mixing perlit into coco is just not needed. even when coco is full to the max of water, it still always has enough air, it's one of the great things about coco, you don't have to worry about air stones and water chillers. as long as the coco can drain freely it will never have too much water for healthy root growth. the plants roots adapt to the way you are growing. certain roots can take air from the water as well.

there is something to be said for allowing a bit of drying of the medium when you are starting up new plants and want the roots to really get established. but for the rest automated irrigation 3 times per day till some water run out the bottom is the way to rock that coco.

 

[jammie]

I think it's seed dependent. You didn't say whether the original plants were seeds or clone but I've had plants that yield 6oz and ones that do 2oz. Side by side everything the same. It seems with these poly hybrids there's allot more variation in plants, even among the same strain.

 

[gaiusmarius]

he said the first time his mate gave him the clones.

 

[Granger2]

At about 5000 ft altitude, the thin air is providing your plants with less CO2. Are you supplementing? Also, thinner air at 40% humidity is dryer to the plants, I *think*. You should research that. Good luck. -granger

 

[colon stewart]

reply

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Same thread on ...
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<LINKS REMOVED see trerms of use>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



Root oxygen
Tried with air stones in the pots... f all difference

Nutes
Lucas compares nutrient profiles
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=21119

I've tried different nutrients and additives, Lucas with .pk13/14, hydrogarden dry flower 4x part program. Food grade humic and fulvic. Www.hydro.co.za nutes custom made. Admittedly I've not bought the canna flores A&B. Perhaps I'll import canna A&B, .pk13/14, dry flower 4x part mix just to be sure, but... tried different nutes and, honestly... none of them made f all difference either way.

Humidity...
M12 mist maker and humidistat... johannesburg is dry. UK is humid. Bought a BIG mist maker can have many humidity whatever I like, outcome was.... humidity makes f all difference... 10% or 60% or anything in between same result, (no humifier in UK)

Temps
UK wing reflectors , not air cooled. Ran portable air conditioner / fan assist heater. UK temps were 20-36 celcius. Johannesburg I've air cooled reflectors, need to be more careful with power consumption... Johannesburg temps also 22-35.... more stable that UK.

Air flow.
Room 3m x 3m x 2.5m high. Used top run 2x 500m cubic meters per hour fan for extracting through air cooled reflectors. Now just using one as two suck out the humidity too quick. Have some intake fans too but only run them if it gets hot.

Strain
I keep mothers and I clone. I select best 1-2x plants from seed and keep mothers from them only.

Water
Bought an ro filter... made f all difference. They prefer tap water. 0.2 .ec in straight tap water here

Good comments have been made about:

Pruning and size when flicked - appreciated
Altitude - appreciated
Temps
Nutes - better just import the canna to be sure
Strain - appreciated
Humidity

I think the lack of "the simple answer" speaks more than the given answers.


The man who said, in different words... "just keep trying with different strains and plants and you'll find a good one sooner or later"... was probably the best answer.


Also... someone on ********* said I was lying.... hahahaha.... if that's what you think, imagine what I think !! ... did I dream those years? Is this life actually real at all ?? What is it trying to do to me ??

Anyways... sooner or later I'll figure it out... different strains and plants, canna nutes and a trip to the dam to get sensi seeds.

All prior and future comments appreciated.

I'm very busy but may post some updates and pics.

Thank you all. Thanks

 

[MuVo2k]

making a diagnose without out seeing the plants is very difficult but my first thoughts were

the right genetic is all
water ...
air pollution ? filter the incoming air
change the nutrients maybe they re diluted ...

i would make a sog ...

good luck

 

[DinosaurCocks]

get a higher yielding strain and pack them in tight...depending on your style that may involve some intensive vegging and training, most of the growers i see could use a few more plants packed into their canopy, you would be surprised at how dense you can grow before buds start to get scragglier and fluffier.

 

[pappy masonjar]

he said the first time his mate gave him the clones.

maybe somebody said this and I missed it. But since it was a clone he was growing in the UK, maybe it was a very good yielding pheno. and thats the difference.

So like others have suggested, keeping popping beans. It sounds like your a good grower. So it might not be anything you're doing wrong. GEnetics are very important. Once everything else is dialed in, thats all you can really improve.

 

[The OrigF/clred]

i'm not even sure i qualify as a novice apprentice, as i'm just observing or watching my bud's grow process, but i'm with granger2 on this one - elevation.

my uncle had a fairly large farm (1100 acres) as a kid, most of it was cattle farming at the base of a mountain, - he had about 100 acres in apple orchard on the flat land, and he leased another 50-60 acres up the slope of the mountain for a 2nd orchard. that 2nd orchard was 1600-1800 feet higher elevation than the lower orchard, same apples growing in both orchards. Both orchards were on the southern side of the mountain, so both got good as well as equal sunlight late in the growing season. The upper orchard maybe got a little more sunlight because of it's elevation.

It was a family affair to go out to his farm and help with the harvest every year, and the apples from the upper orchard were always smaller, about 15 - 20% smaller.

The lower density of the air at the higher elevation obviously means fewer molecules, whether oxygen, CO2, nitrogen etc plus less moisture in the air (40% Rh is relative humidity, but 40% at lower elevation is going to mean more absolute moisture in the air at lower elevation than higher).

Considering the additional yield folks indicate they see from CO2 supplemented environment, i'd think the lower concentration or availability of CO2 in thinner or less dense atmosphere would be a pretty important factor

FWIW

 

[Citizens Aux PD]

MildeStoner said it: It's your fucken lights, Jack! You're using 800 watts less than you did in the UK. That's a significant difference. Eight hundred bleedin' watts less. How can you possibly scratch your head and wonder why you're now getting less than a gram per watt?

Have you been smoking marijuana?

 

[MildeStoner]

I think the difference in penetration between the two HID's is equally significant to the difference in wattage, they require different grow styles and light spacing (from canopy and each other) to achieve optimum yield...

 

[Elmer Bud]

MildeStoner said it: It's your fucken lights, Jack! You're using 800 watts less than you did in the UK. That's a significant difference. Eight hundred bleedin' watts less. How can you possibly scratch your head and wonder why you're now getting less than a gram per watt?

Have you been smoking marijuana?

G`day CAP

Are you aware that 600s are more efficient at producing light per watt ?

The 600s produce more light per Watt than either 400s or 1000s .
So what he looses in total watts he makes up for some what via Lumens per watt .
Also the 600s burn a lot cooler than a 1 K so he can be closer to his canopy and get similar amounts of light actually hitting his plants .
Google the inverse square law ...

Thanks for sharin

EB .