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beliefs and assumptions that are...
- Thread starter southflorida
- Start date
guess, one either gets it, or they don't
I fully "get it" - I just don't see anything that makes my life more productive or meaningful by getting all caught up in my consciousness in order to process what's going on around me...lol
I guess some people have to stop and think about such things - I've always considered all this stuff just generic old common sense.
IF you are simply a consciousness...then you say you continue to exist outside the vessel you'd call you body, which is merely a complex arrangement of nerves and neurons that exists for you to be capable of interpreting your surroundings...
So, with out the body and the ability to have sensory experiences, your consciousness is merely some stupid useless wandering "spirit" with no direct purpose or function - just simply is - but cannot understand nor do anything...
That would suggest your body is the ONLY reason you have ANY awareness at all - for your consciousness to even process one single iota of anything you talk about...
Yet you completely ignore such things saying that all that matters is your awareness....
If you body ceases to function - your awareness goes with it - and your consciousness is no more. And whatever if ANYTHING at all remains - rots into the earth and is broken down by worms.
THAT is life. THAT is all. We exist for a bit - then we don't any longer....and the world...keeps on going all the same - just as if another ant had been burnt by a 5 year old with a magnifying glass. Any attempt to make us more than exactly what we are - mammals...just another creature spawned from who knows where or how.
We exist. We don't ultimately matter. Deal with it. Rather than all this non-sense that attempts to glorify some notion that we are beyond the laws of nature...
dank.Frank
actually, it seems you don't get it.
what we, as humans, consider to be our body, mind, emotions, plus everything else that is outside of this body in the world, is a secondary process, it is what we perceive.
...all perception of absolutely everything is in-direct and secondary, meaning that what we perceive is not what is actually there, but instead an interpretation of the data delivered to our mind through the nerve endings.
that is simply the nature of perception.
I'm actually saying that Consciousness is aware of the body, mind, and the world. Consciousness is primary, the body, mind, world is secondary.
In our culture there is an assumption that the body, mind, and the world are primary, and Consciousness secondary. This false assumption is the root of the majority of the problems that the human race has been experiencing for millennia.
you believe this because you believe the body is primary, that the body (brain) is what produces consciousness/awareness.
from this it seems you believe that consciousness/awareness is secondary,
actually it is the other way around.
consciousness is primary, it is what is aware of the body, mind, and the world, which are all secondary, and temporary.
i would even go as far as saying that the body, mind, and whatever else that appears in the world to be an illusion inside of consciousness.
that all these things are simply "distinctions" that consciousness makes inside of itself.
this is all secondary, and NOT what I'm pointing at in this thread.
all this stuff is the cultural beliefs and assumptions that we all have been spoon-fed by the society where we grew up, and it is all based on false beliefs and assumptions, and not seeing clearly what is actually occuring in our direct, moment-to-moment experience.
btw...the topic of this thread is what we really are, and NOT what our culture and society programs into us.
NO. I get it.
I just think it is a bunch of horse shit to make someone FEEL enlightened.
Everything you contritely define as secondary - is necessary for ANY interaction in what you are calling a primary.
You would have NO AWARENESS AT ALL in the primary if not for the secondary sensory triggers.
Anything outside of that - IS SPECULATION.
You only ASSUME you have any sort of being outside of the secondary. Until your secondary is gone, then you have absolutely NOTHING to give any credence to your thoughts at all - you can't give proof to ANYTHING you suggest or say...
It is circular 1/2 logic designed for the sole purpose of chin scratching.
When you exist in purely your primary form - you come knock on my front door and let me know how you're doing.... ROFL.
dank.Frank
I just think it is a bunch of horse shit to make someone FEEL enlightened.
Everything you contritely define as secondary - is necessary for ANY interaction in what you are calling a primary.
You would have NO AWARENESS AT ALL in the primary if not for the secondary sensory triggers.
Anything outside of that - IS SPECULATION.
You only ASSUME you have any sort of being outside of the secondary. Until your secondary is gone, then you have absolutely NOTHING to give any credence to your thoughts at all - you can't give proof to ANYTHING you suggest or say...
It is circular 1/2 logic designed for the sole purpose of chin scratching.
When you exist in purely your primary form - you come knock on my front door and let me know how you're doing.... ROFL.
dank.Frank
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double post.
what I'm trying to explain can only be experienced in your experience.
i'm not here to try to convince anyone of anything, or to help someone become enlightened.
if this information is not in-sync with your experience, then that is what "is."
good luck!
i'm not here to try to convince anyone of anything, or to help someone become enlightened.
if this information is not in-sync with your experience, then that is what "is."
good luck!
All I'm trying to say is there is nothing substantial about your line of thinking...nothing at all.
It is a gimmick. A road that says, ultimately NOTHING.
To say each and every mans experiences are his own therefore his reality is of his own making - well, duh. That's nothing new. That's called you reap what you sow.
To you - a chair may only be a chair because your body is tired and wants something comfortable to sit on so it manifests a chair out of thin air because you so desired it...well, that to me is a bunch of crap.
A chair is a chair because that's what it is. Period. Does it exist. Yeah. I'm looking at it. As are hundreds of other people. Are we ALL wrong in our interpretation of what is before us? Or do we all have some great longing to sit down so we manifested the same thing to our destiny...
C'mon -man. You really can't think you are on some sort of higher plain of thinking simply because you FEEL you have it all figured out...
Maybe - your pursuit of this is merely a conjecture of what you feel society has not provided so by default you have created some notion that allows you to feel like life has merit outside of the secondary - ie the OBVIOUS laws that control nature and pretty much all we can do.
Their is no great understanding of physics that will allow a man to jump of a building and on his own accord, fly. No, he will hit the ground and go splat. THAT is reality. You can't decide your primary is going to float off into the wild blue yonder simply because you realize - oh crap, I'm about to go splat...
There is NO separation of the mind from the body. None. It is one in the same - dependent on one another. Period.
-edit-
Well, there are example I can think of where a body does function or continue to do so with aide outside the use of the mind - we call those types "vegetables" for a reason...
dank.Frank
It is a gimmick. A road that says, ultimately NOTHING.
To say each and every mans experiences are his own therefore his reality is of his own making - well, duh. That's nothing new. That's called you reap what you sow.
To you - a chair may only be a chair because your body is tired and wants something comfortable to sit on so it manifests a chair out of thin air because you so desired it...well, that to me is a bunch of crap.
A chair is a chair because that's what it is. Period. Does it exist. Yeah. I'm looking at it. As are hundreds of other people. Are we ALL wrong in our interpretation of what is before us? Or do we all have some great longing to sit down so we manifested the same thing to our destiny...
C'mon -man. You really can't think you are on some sort of higher plain of thinking simply because you FEEL you have it all figured out...
Maybe - your pursuit of this is merely a conjecture of what you feel society has not provided so by default you have created some notion that allows you to feel like life has merit outside of the secondary - ie the OBVIOUS laws that control nature and pretty much all we can do.
Their is no great understanding of physics that will allow a man to jump of a building and on his own accord, fly. No, he will hit the ground and go splat. THAT is reality. You can't decide your primary is going to float off into the wild blue yonder simply because you realize - oh crap, I'm about to go splat...
There is NO separation of the mind from the body. None. It is one in the same - dependent on one another. Period.
-edit-
Well, there are example I can think of where a body does function or continue to do so with aide outside the use of the mind - we call those types "vegetables" for a reason...
dank.Frank
body and mind act concertively as an antennae.
conciousness is the signal.
if you cannot perceive reality, tune the antennae.
whatup south? more to come?
conciousness is the signal.
if you cannot perceive reality, tune the antennae.
whatup south? more to come?
Okay so without any antennae - how does one perceive anything???
Goes right back to what I said before.
dank.Frank
Goes right back to what I said before.
dank.Frank
hi trichrider!
as strange as it is, this is the only forum where quite a lot of people actually are interested in this topic
and, yes, once an insight hits, i'll be writing...with Dank.Frank not too far behind
from a scientific point of view:
our mind interprets incoming data collected by our sense-organs.
this occurs through nerve-endings delivering this data to our brain, where this data is interpreted
taking this into account, it is very clear that in the domain of the human condition all perception is clearly in-direct, and always a secondary event.
the first event is unknown to us, we don't know what is there, maybe something like atoms, maybe nothing
from the consciousness point of view:
consciousness is aware as all the distinctions in one's experience
these "distinctions" inside of consciousness are what create everything that we perceive in our experience
Everything always goes in and out of existence.
On a Universal scale, this would mean that every once a while & on infinite occasions, conscience will appear again out of nothing.
Even if that means a gazillion of light years apart, and a gazillion Universes and Dimension beyond where we are at the present moment.
You can't erase Conscience into oblivion.
Right now you experience it, Some day, long after you went out of existence you will experience it again.
Hard to proof you won't be tapping from the same conscience then as you do right now.
You'd prolly just be experiencing a different 'movie', but could as well be not.
@ SF, I think calling any of the 2 primary or secondary = BS. That's a bit like the chicken & the egg question.
I think things go hand in hand.
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misconceptions abound and are very difficult to shake.
i'm so far out in the woo woo conspiracy theory stuff that i strongly suspect most of what we are taught as truth is bullshit.
i believe in each individual developing individual strong cognitive discerning skills and getting in touch with our higher self/intuition. i perceive much of what's on the boob tube (tv), radio and msm news is mostly programming for a planned future race of organic robotoids.
i'm so far out in the woo woo conspiracy theory stuff that i strongly suspect most of what we are taught as truth is bullshit.
i believe in each individual developing individual strong cognitive discerning skills and getting in touch with our higher self/intuition. i perceive much of what's on the boob tube (tv), radio and msm news is mostly programming for a planned future race of organic robotoids.
Let me prove to you SF that what you believe is wrong. Not speculate, prove!
That which you call primary is altered by the physical. Not just the information that is interpreted, but the thing itself. When a person takes LSD, the external reality stays the same, yet your experience of it alters. I know what you will say, but that is not my point. It is not just the way in which that person see's, feels, the sensations that the primary experiences. It is the very ability to think. The thought processes themselves become confused and scattered. If that which thinks, can no longer think in the same way, then that which thinks has been altered. If that was not of the physical world, then the physical world could only ever be observed by it, but it could not be altered by the observable world. Now if you think that you are something other than that which thinks, you are making something up and claiming to be "it". You agreed when I said that we should not engage in sophistry, and yet seem to be engaging in sophistry.
That which you call primary is altered by the physical. Not just the information that is interpreted, but the thing itself. When a person takes LSD, the external reality stays the same, yet your experience of it alters. I know what you will say, but that is not my point. It is not just the way in which that person see's, feels, the sensations that the primary experiences. It is the very ability to think. The thought processes themselves become confused and scattered. If that which thinks, can no longer think in the same way, then that which thinks has been altered. If that was not of the physical world, then the physical world could only ever be observed by it, but it could not be altered by the observable world. Now if you think that you are something other than that which thinks, you are making something up and claiming to be "it". You agreed when I said that we should not engage in sophistry, and yet seem to be engaging in sophistry.
not actually BS, because just like the chicken and the egg, the primary and secondary are distinctions, they are different.
yes, they do go hand in hand, but they are DIFFERENT hands.
just like a screen in the movie theater and the actual movie are different things, and the screen doesn't disappear or change in nature by the movie.
the screen is primary, the movie secondary.
without the screen, there would be no movie...right?
the awareness that is aware of experience is what I'm claiming to be primary, and a good analogy is the movie screen.
what appears on the screen changes, but the screen doesn't change.
the movie appearing on the screen is secondary, and would not appear without the screen.
is that more clear?
