Should Machine Rooted Clones be Dipped?

[vapedg13]

But this isn't a clone scoring / scraping side by side, it's a clone dipping side by side.

Why not make a scraping / scoring / natural side by side thread? "Do clones truly need to be scraped or scored?"

With some strains, yes it helps to get the roots going quicker or at all...was that a question and a thread title?

 

[OvergrowDaWorld]

My tap water has alot of chlorine in it. This must be why a quick rinse and wipe works for my clone machine. I dont even run clean water through the pump. I just take it out, spray it with a sink sprayer, and done.
The black manifold that holds the mister tips just gets tap water run through it.

 

[sunset limited]

for the longest time i couldn't figure out why my cuts in the aero machine were having so damn many problems—taking forever to root, damping off, tops withering before the roots came in, etc.

i tried a bunch of different thing to fix it. and since i try to be scientific minded, i would make it a point to isolate the variable and compare it to a control. scraped, scored, split or natural ends. this rooting hormone, that rooting hormone. foliar feeding, b1, weak calmag and silica... the list goes on.

the one thing i had never even bothered to check my water temps. since ambient in my veg room rarely gets above 75°F and never more than 80° i reasoned that the cloner would stay within those tolerances too. on the day that i finally bothered to check it, my cloner was running at 88°. i had failed to account for few things. one was the the heat generated by the off brand submersible pump that came with it. genius that i am, i also had the thing right behind my chiller so all the heat exhaust from the compressor was getting dumped on my cloner. to make things worse, the black rez was acting as a solar collector too.

i switched the pump for a cooler running mag drive. i painted the rez white. i moved the damn thing away from the rear of my chiller. and it worked out pretty well. i went from having 60% throw roots and looking like hell to better than 90% the pythium remained an issue, albeit a small one. one ml/gallon of zone or pool shock or regular bleach took care of that. it's been smooth sailing ever since.

here's gorilla glue @ 11 and 15 days, respectively.

 

[vapedg13]

Been there, done that. No I don't have slime.

Krunchbubble said that once a cloner becomes a killing machine you need to dismantle the manifold and scrub it out with a bottle brush.

In another thread someone recommended that in a home-made aerocloner the pvc pipe and fittings for the manifold should be press fitted together instead of glued. This way it can be dismantled for cleaning.

In my situation I've also been dealing with a botrytis type infection that takes out rooted plants. So maybe my room is contaminated? With the last cloner genocide event I noticed that the death sequence began with cuttings from some more mature plants that might have been already compromised. So maybe the infection is beginning before cuttings are taken?

It's a puzzle that I don't expect to be solved for me on the internet. I do need to try the concentrated hydrogen peroxide. I will also try running a more concentrated solution of another oxidizer that I have, Oxidate. I also need to try a different water supply.

I had a bit of success switching over to cups of perlite which helps avoid cross contamination. Then I built two new cloners from scratch and had a near 100% run with the first one. Unfortunately they were all culled because the whole room came down with (botrytis?), which I believe resulted from my air supply pulling through a freakin compost heap of fallen leaves from ornamental shrubbery. That spore laden mulch pile is gone now.

My room received a thourough cleaning and wipe down with Oxidate and Physan 20. Ran this stuff through all the pumps, plumbing and reservoirs between runs in addition to a good scrubbing. I tried meticulous sterile technique. Placed cuttings immediately into a bleach solution. I ran bleach, and Physan 20 to disinfect the cloners. Used cloner bathwater with liquid chlorine, pool shock, Physan 20, earthworm casting tea (what a god awful mess), beneficial bacteria in a bottle, copper sulphate, Actinovate, aquarium UV sterilizer, and cuts dipped in Great White trichoderma spores. Water was a constant 75 degrees F. It just got worse and worse.


I think I'll pop some seeds from plants that I didn't especially enjoy smoking, and then grow some mothers just for obtaining cuttings to experiment on with no worries about getting a harvest out of the deal. Hopefully I can also set up something in another building to address the possibility of room contamination.


Damn. What am I doing sitting here in a chair when I have work to do?

if all else fails... a new clone king 30 site is $60 Keep your water temps in the mid 70s

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

if all else fails... a new clone king 30 site is $60 Keep your water temps in the mid 70s

Been there, done that.

...Then I built two new cloners from scratch and had a near 100% run with the first one.

... Water was a constant 75 degrees F.

Damn. What am I doing sitting here in a chair when I have work to do?

Oh well ...

 

[OvergrowDaWorld]

When I first started using an aerocloner I could keep the thing running perpetually if I wanted to ... topping it off and adding new cuts as I pulled those that were rooted. But once the pathogens took hold it was all downhill from there.

People who tell stories of always being successful don't impress me that much. Someone having a real problem and solving it ... well that's something to pay close attention to.

Well.....alrighty then.
The bubble line that comes with the 120 site EZ-Cloner and the small pump that comes stock w/ the machine were garbage.
Once the line gets clogged...all my clones up and slimed on me. Lost 60% of them.
I replaced the bubble line with 2- 12" bubble stones for fishtanks and changed the pump to a large, 2 hole site.
My clones have been happy and healthy ever since.
Does this wet your appetite?

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Well.....alrighty then.
The bubble line that comes with the 120 site EZ-Cloner and the small pump that comes stock w/ the machine were garbage.
Once the line gets clogged...all my clones up and slimed on me. Lost 60% of them.
I replaced the bubble line with 2- 12" bubble stones for fishtanks and changed the pump to a large, 2 hole site.
My clones have been happy and healthy ever since.
Does this wet your appetite?

That's great. Good for you.

I would like to apologize for this statement;

People who tell stories of always being successful don't impress me that much.

This comes across as a dig at you which wasn't my intent. It could have been better phrased as, "Stories of always being successful don't impress me that much."

 

[00420]

if it is a soft tip cut then no it softens the tissue to much and organic plant matter gets into the cloner feeding the slime helping it bloom even more if it is a more hardy wood like cut then yes it need to be soften to some point less is best.

protein skimmer and a uv light works wonders

Protein skimmers (aka Foam fractionators) remove anything that increases the surface tension of the water. not all doc's (dissolved organic carbons) are protein Some are mucopolysaccharides from the breakdown of the slime coat on fish, some are lipids, hormones and pheromones.

FYI
Cyanobacteria is a gram negative bacteria
erythromycin is used for gram positive bacteria

 

[OvergrowDaWorld]

Silly Rabbit.....

 

[Snype]

 

[OvergrowDaWorld]

Houston......We have lift-off.
Nice roots Snype.
So.... you did cut at an angle this time?

 

[gmanwho]

So many valid points. Love to hear that others had problems just as i did an now there is a solution!!! Enjoy the side by sides , i to would like to know scrape or not to scrape etc.

would the purpose of a node below the collar theoretically " seal the stem "

b-safe

 

[SooperSmurph]

would the purpose of a node below the collar theoretically " seal the stem "

b-safe

The theory is that node sites contain more of the plant's version of stem cells, which are more likely to turn into roots, at least that's my stupid version of things.

 

[gmanwho]

Sooper, that would be an interesting to know, maybe there is more reproductive cells located near the node. Maybe something related there to tissue culture cloning.

Have you heard of anyone using an inline uvlight sterilizer on their cloner to keep of the bacterias down?? instead of using erythromycin. It sounds like a preventive measure worth taking to me, especially when you have so much riding on the cloener to produce roots.

b-safe

b-safe

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

I tried placing cheap aquarium UV sterilizers in my cloners with no luck. But maybe the pathogens I'm dealing with are extra nasty.

 

[SooperSmurph]

Anything that is surviving within your local water supply will not be killed by standard UV or Ozonation, as it has already passed through these processes and lived, unless the infection in their system is after the sterilization point.

As far as I know, ozonation / UV lighting combined with reverse osmosis is the standard for water treatment in most cities, so if your problem is with your water, not your system, you may wish to try sterilizing it before use with something that disapates rapidly, such as H2O2.

Sorry for the brief lack of activity, suffering from lack of mutant extra arms, will try to be back posting things regularly soon.

 

[Avinash.miles]

I use dip & grow liquid root hormone on cuttings in my aero cloner, works wonders

my 2 cents.

 

[gmanwho]

Anything that is surviving within your local water supply will not be killed by standard UV or Ozonation, as it has already passed through these processes and lived, unless the infection in their system is after the sterilization point.

As far as I know, ozonation / UV lighting combined with reverse osmosis is the standard for water treatment in most cities, so if your problem is with your water, not your system, you may wish to try sterilizing it before use with something that disapates rapidly, such as H2O2.

Sorry for the brief lack of activity, suffering from lack of mutant extra arms, will try to be back posting things regularly soon.

( Sorry no spacing, jsut realized when i saved message,some reason the proxy wont allow spacing today ???) While this is getting off topic some, but it still pertains to machine cloning... Most towns here east coast come from fresh water ponds, while the water is treated with chlorine an who knows what else. i am uncertain if they use RO. Most likely not even UV treated. I will have to check to be certain.. These are part of the variables you get being on the internet. One person says , " cloning so easy ; what u mean u cant clone? so simple blah blah blah" An i say you have no idea what i've tried over the past 10 yrs to consistently get good rooted clones!!! I can grow beautiful yielding plants, but i cant clone for shit!!! An yes i've tried rooters, coco, perlite, perlite vermiculite, wick cloners, soil, grodan rockwool , machine cloners, controlled heat mats an domes, cloning rockwool ontop of hydroton, cfl to t5 or reg t8 bulbs etc etc etc.... I'd b curious about the uv light. Some of the aquarium forums i have been reading and or articles on aquarium websites seem to state the opposite. lot more praise the use of UV light rather then saying they didnt work for them. Whether it was some algae bloom or some bacteria related fish disease. A search on cyanoabacteria lead me a a few hour research thru the web, apparently it is very common in salt water aquariums to get large growths of these algea type bacterias from higher temps an coral lights. And in our seas or ponds. It can grows in sheets in an aquarium over the coral and or sand. Coloration varies from red to green to blue an others. Its is very common an can overtake entire water ecosystems. Wiki states even cyanobacteria lives on the fur of sloths creating a camouflage. Now obviously there is no light in the cloner like an aquarium. Heat was the the other common denominator in what i found when reading when people had aquarium problems. I think either way the next cloner i will install a cycle timer to keep heat down and a uv light circulation. But also i will be at another town 100 miles away, so therefore not having the same water supply. So i cant say i will have a legit comparison from before. I Just need to know i cover every angle as i depend on the cloner so much. So much is riding on the cloner an to have extra assurance is a good thing. If the uv light is introduced to an aquarium it seems to slow the spread or growth fish diseases an bacterias. Seems to stabilize any future uncontrolled outbreaks. So hopefully this can aid and get my percentages up!! Enough rambling.... grow on! B-safe

 

[00420]

I tried placing cheap aquarium UV sterilizers in my cloners with no luck. But maybe the pathogens I'm dealing with are extra nasty.

its not that there extra nasty but that your loading your cloner with them and making a place that they love to live. the uv sterilizer is to keep the water sterile for a long time fish tanks get 20% change once a month with uv and being a sterilized eco system its's much longer you also have to filter out the doc's when running a closed loop if your not using sterile water and sterilizing everything (including the cut) you will have a infection.

tissue & seed sterilization only leave trace amounts of sodium hypochlorite that remain on the surface.

step 1: dip cut into 70% rubbing alcohol for 10-15 sec's to remove debris & wax's

step 2: put cut into one drop joy or dawn dish soap to a gallon of 10% bleach 90% sterile water for 10-15 min's stir every 3-5 min's this removes fungi & bacteria's (remember fungi is fuzzy bacteria is slimy)

step 3: remove from bleach water into 100% sterile water for 5 min's

step 4: place in sterile medium or cloner

everything must be CLEAN!

 

[00420]

Anything that is surviving within your local water supply will not be killed by standard UV or Ozonation, as it has already passed through these processes and lived, unless the infection in their system is after the sterilization point.

As far as I know, ozonation / UV lighting combined with reverse osmosis is the standard for water treatment in most cities, so if your problem is with your water, not your system, you may wish to try sterilizing it before use with something that disapates rapidly, such as H2O2.

Sorry for the brief lack of activity, suffering from lack of mutant extra arms, will try to be back posting things regularly soon.

there is no funding to change uv lights & filters like it should be so even that it passes its not 100% also there is more & less in the river/ponds/lake as there is more light in the day or more fish in someones area. bacteria is the earths way of braking down shit so that other life forms live on.

the problem is the water not the system its not clean & infects the system. everything must be clean no one has a pool that is clean with out proper cleaning same with fishtanks & cloners alike a simple test would be to put out a few bottles of water in the sun, one unopened & one with tap water ( then 2 of the same with a cut in each to add organic matter )