Problem I'm seeing here is, even in the excerpt they mention it having no effect on tomato and pepper transplants, and inconsistent results with strawberries. Also the fact that the CANNABIS plants I grow and have been studying for many years, have all shown an huge increase in speed of growth and yield over peat gardens. I think ichy is on to something with the CEC of coco becoming more balanced over time. I have definitely noticed an improvement in plant health as my coco matures from reuse. However this might also be due to microbes beginning to create humic/fulvic substances, similar to what happens as an organic mix matures. Not to say that peat couldn't be somehow better than coco, but until you have mastered both, your opinion on the matter means nil.
Bobble just because you didn't dial coco, doesn't instantly mean that peat is better. More forgiving to fuck ups, yes, better from a yield and speed of growth stand point, not a chance.
Oh and just fair warning, I'm going to ride your ass hard about the information you share here. You have a large following of people that are eager to eat up any information you feed them. Make sure it's nutritious.
Correct me if I am wrong but a plant can pull carbon from the atmophere around it. This is why we have CO2 burners. Whether this is enough or not is imaterial as you amending yours beds. You said that you were getting test for the beds you have. Maybe this should be one of your tests. As well as the high P and K in coco this can be adressed in your soil tests as well. The whole purpose for the test is to not oversupply one nutrient over another.
the plants can also absorb nutrients through the stomata, that doesn't mean they can source all of their nutrients though foliar sprays. You have to have a charge in the soil as well. We're not just feeding the plant, we're feeding the microbes that die and feed the plant.
As for the CEC what is it for the peat? In your study there was a big difference in the coco tested? Is this the case with peat as well?
When you stated that no till is better for the micro herd you are correct there. If it is better in peat it would also be better in coco as well. Have you tried no till with the coco as well?
no I haven't tried no-till coco. Coco sucks.
Before I even try something like this you will have to prove it to me as I am to cheap to just jump in.
Cheap Charlie out.
ha! You must still be salty about the rectal temp thing.
I do tend to get a lil "tight" when a grown man wants to stick something in my ass. Medical student or not, prison does strange things to mans ass/mind.
If you're gonna ride my ass I'm going to correct you... or at least I'm gonna keep thinking I'm right and let you think you're right.
Please do TRY and correct me
As far as your coco establishing humus... Not the case.. Every time you dump your coco out and remix it, you're destroying whole ecosystems. The microbes spent the entire grow establishing colonies and symbiotic relationships, and then you rip them apart when you empty the pot. Studies have shown a higher level of microbe life in no-till soils. You could start to establish humus over several grows by using large pots and leaving them full, only cutting out the space needed for the transplant.
Again you are only partly right here. I have been dumping and mixing the soil at my organic garden for years, and guess what, it's teaming with life (confirmed with a microscope over a similar bet another friend made about a year ago). Not to say that I don't severely disrupt there happy lil home every time I remix, but it hardly kills everything, or even most everything, as you have been lead to believe. Would no-til have higher levels, sure, but you must get rid of this idea of absolutes in organics. A different mentality must be adopted from your "hydro chem fert" days. Try and understand these microbes have been here for millions of years, it's VERY difficult to kill them all. Sterile RDWC is a perfect example. How many people dump bleach, hydrosparkle, etc in their res to keep the nasties at bay, only to still end up with rot at some point?
I used coco for a long time before I ditched it... IDK that I "mastered" it, but I did have some excellent results. Now I've also used peat, and like you, I have my opinion of which works better. The difference between you and me is that more research supports my findings. lol Its not like coco can't be dialed to produce great results, peat is just easier.
You didn't even come close to mastering it, your plants have shown this. Your opinion on which works better is purely based in peat being more forgiving to fuck ups in nutrient and ph levels. Had you dialed coco properly you'd be wondering why your plants are growing comparatively slow now. Difference is coco requires you to be on top of you nute and ph all the time due to the CEC, unlike peat, where you can kind of just eye shit, and more than likely it will be fine (read easier to get healthy plants if you don't have nutes down). This is especially true when using organics. You are entitled to your opinion, but at least understand why your opinion is what it is. Nothing wrong with peat, just understand that I have grown thousands of cannabis plants in both, and coco wins hands down for growth rate and yields. Some study about vegetables doesn't even compare to data I've collected in the real world growing the plant in question.
The biggest difference with coco vs peat is the high CEC of coco.
Physico-chemical and chemical properties of some coconut coir dusts for use as a peat substitute for containerised ornamental plants
Manuel Abada, Corresponding author contact information, E-mail the corresponding author,
Patricia Noguerab,
Rosa Puchadesb,
Angel Maquieirab,
Vicente Nogueraa
a Departamento de Producción Vegetal, Universidad Politécnica de Valencia, P.O. Box 22012, E-46071 Valencia, Spain
b Departamento de Quı́mica, Universidad Politécnica de Valencia, P.O. Box 22012, E-46071 Valencia, Spain
Abstract
Selected physico-chemical and chemical characteristics of 13 coconut coir dust (mesocarp pithy tissue plus short-length fibres) samples from Asia, America and Africa were evaluated as peat alternatives. All properties studied differed significantly between and within sources, and from the control Sphagnum peat. pH of coir dust was slightly acidic, whereas salinity varied dramatically between 39 and 597 mS m−1 in the saturated media extract. The cation exchange capacity and carbon/nitrogen (C/N) ratio ranged from 31.7 to 95.4 View the MathML source and from 75 to 186, respectively. Most carbon was found as lignin and cellulose. The concentrations of available nitrogen, calcium, magnesium and micro-elements were low, while those of phosphorus and potassium were remarkably high (0.28–2.81 mol m−3 and 2.97–52.66 mol m−3 for P and K, respectively). Saline ion concentrations, especially chloride and sodium, were also high.
I'd venture to guess this study was conducted in the early years of coco, before manufactures got serious about consistency and quality. Coco used to vary ALOT, most of it being fairly poor quality. However in today's market that's not really a concern as the CEC has already been compensated for at the factory in most cases. CEC is just another facet to be considered when designing a flush, and nute regimen, no different from any other media. I've used literally hundreds of bricks of coco, and these days it's a very consistent product. This study shows nothing relevant to your argument. So keep em coming if ya can, I still haven't seen anything that factually supports your argument.
Carbon is important for plant growth... We're all made of it. Lignin is known for being slow to decompose and adds aeration to the coir. IDK if this is good or bad, it really depends on the available carbon to the plant... So I guess it depends on container size and the rate of decomposition.
If you are concerned about the levels of carbon in your soil (you really should be as an organic gardener), you can add it very cheaply with the addition of charcoal bits (Do not use the stuff for your bbq, unless it's the expensive pure lump coal with no glue or additives. There is also a horticulture version sold at nurseries) The lignin in coco is a good thing for those that wish to reuse their media. It's slow break down and resistance to packing, make it a great aeration amendment.
The only way to know for sure whats going on in the coco as far as CEC is to conduct soil tests. With soil tests you could potentially compensate for the high CEC and make more N, Ca, Mg, and micros available... but without knowing what you have, you're guessing... and chemical nutes do a good job of masking deficiencies.
True the only way to know for sure is with tests, but if you know how to read your plants they will tell you everything you are doing right, and wrong. Completely disagree that chemical nutes do a good job of masking deficiencies. That's utter bullshit.
I ran coco + synthetics for the last 3 years straight.... and every small grow I did before that time. I've been in peat for 6 months, and I've had the best results of my growing career. To each their own.
Again this is because you never dialed in your nute regimen for coco, and peat requires you to be less precise while still allowing for good growth. Not trying to sway your opinion of peat, just pointing out why you are seeing the results you are seeing. If it works better for you with your knowledge level/current setup at this time, by all means. I've always said a grower should do what works best for them. Just don't want many of the people that read your thread to think coco is shitty because you didn't dial it, and now think peat is superior. Feel free to try and prove me wrong, but I actually conducted my own studies with hundreds of cannabis plants. Even if all other factors were equal, coco would still win for speed and yield, if for no other reason then coco allows so much more air to the roots. Anybody want to try and prove aero doesn't grow/yield so well because of the higher oxygen levels in the root zone?
. Besides, our debates tend to bring up good information exchange .
Oh sure just gloss over the whole part of amending the coco with some form of carbon.
What I'm trying to convey is that if you've got enough space outside to spread a tarp, you oughtta be able to make do with that, just for the hour or two it'll take to dump & mix, before putting it back into a container to continue its cookin'. 
Ichy
Do you have enough space (and relative privacy, perhaps) outside?
I
Just so ya know, i'm not picking you bro. Just trying to learn ya a thing or two
