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Why aren´t more of you growing ROLS

dank.frank

dank.frank

ef.yu.se.ka.e.em
ICMag Donor
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I found out about Worm Power via my work through Cornell. Worm Power is a great facility. There are VERY VERY few such places in the east. Given the west really has the foothold on the growing culture, there is SO MUCH MORE available out west. Us east coasters really have a bit of a harder time sourcing certain things...

In part why it is so important to find ways to be truly self sufficient in as many ways as you possibly can. I've been learning more and more about worms over the last couple years. I'm almost convinced I can get a few worm beds together...hehehe.

Truly...growing organic without EWC is like trying to drive a car with no gas...



dank.Frank
 
M

milkyjoe

Senior Member
Veteran
Granger2 said:
I've been gardening for decades, and in the crapload of gardening books I've read and used for reference, incl. cannabis books, they used to always say not to re-use your container mixes because they may be disease ridden. I always found this to be questionable, and never had problems. Cutting thru this long given advice is a slow process. Re-educating people by jumping all up in nare in they shit, slows that process down even more. -granger
Click to expand...

Here is the thing. Peat is very high Carbon to Nitrogen. Most mixes are like 50% peat, 25% compost and 25% drainage.

That means you have to feed a bunch of N to the microbes (not the plant) just to get the microbes to consume the Carbon.

If you can build a big fungal population to convert that carbon into humus...and that is what living soil is about...you will find yourself needing less and less N over time as that C:N ratio approaches 10.

So the people that tell you to change your soil every grow stand to benefit in two ways if you follow that advice. Selling you dirt and nutrients.

It is flat bad advice and should tell you everything you need to know about that industry. They are not looking out for your best interest.

When you hit 10:1 with a true living soil I am speculating (and intend to find out one day) that you should not need N inputs anymore.
 
O

OrganicOzarks

You are going to need to add N if you are not plowing under your crops. Maybe less N, but you will still need to add.
 
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milkyjoe

Senior Member
Veteran
Possibly...but then again maybe you now have enough N fixing bacteria and enough Protozoa to recycle that N...the bacteria being 17% N and the Protozoa 5%.

I don't know yet...but I damn sure want to find out.
 
O

OrganicOzarks

Being that only half of the nitrogen is available the first year I don't see how you could get to the point where the "humus" supplied all of the N needed by plants.
 
bobblehead

bobblehead

Active member
Veteran
N fixing bacteria aren't going to supply the N if its already present from supplemental N. You've gotta go without first, then the bacteria grow and die and only then will the N be available to the plants.
 
O

OrganicOzarks

milkyjoe said:
I ain't saying you are wrong. But with N fixing bacteria you are not counting on humus to supply the N...you are counting on bacteria to fix N out of the atmosphere.

http://www.quantumagriculture.com/articles/soil-need-total-testing

Does it work? I cannot say because I have not seen it...yet :biggrin:
Click to expand...

I glanced at that, and it stated that DE is a great silicon fertilizer, however I thought the silicon in DE is not bioavailable to plants?

I would guess that if you never had to add N back into the soil then there wold already be soil scientists instructing their customers on how to achieve this.

This may be possible at some point, however I do not believe we are there yet.
 
C

Carbon.Chains

OrganicOzarks said:
I glanced at that, and it stated that DE is a great silicon fertilizer, however I thought the silicon in DE is not bioavailable to plants?

I would guess that if you never had to add N back into the soil then there wold already be soil scientists instructing their customers on how to achieve this.

This may be possible at some point, however I do not believe we are there yet.
Click to expand...

Yes it is. The Si is present as mono silicic acid, the plant available form.

Unless you harvest too much, it is possible to farm without supplying external fertilizers. As Masanobu Fukuoka did.
 
O

OrganicOzarks

Carbon.Chains said:
Yes it is. The Si is present as mono silicic acid, the plant available form.

Unless you harvest too much, it is possible to farm without supplying external fertilizers. As Masanobu Fukuoka did.
Click to expand...

I am not big on copy and pasting, but do you have any links to studies that show that it is actually bioavailable to plants?

Thanks for the info!
 
LyryC

LyryC

Active member
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If I owed my own house/property ROLS all day.

Otherwise its not worth the time unless u wanna cart mad soil.

The Big Time outdoor guys don't seem to do it - maybe for more control?
 
Microbeman

Microbeman

The Logical Gardener
ICMag Donor
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milkyjoe said:
I ain't saying you are wrong. But with N fixing bacteria you are not counting on humus to supply the N...you are counting on bacteria to fix N out of the atmosphere.

http://www.quantumagriculture.com/articles/soil-need-total-testing

Does it work? I cannot say because I have not seen it...yet :biggrin:
Click to expand...

There is another source of N from bacteria/archaea being consumed by protozoa. This is unrelated to N fixing bacteria. It is a factor of having a high enough bacteria/archaea popultion to feed protozoa which will utilize 10 to 40% of the energy for sustanence and expell 60 to 90% of the energy as bio-available (ionic) N.

The bacteria feed on organic matter and the can derive the fuel needed from compost.
 
F

Frozenguy

Active member
Veteran
I searched but can't find an answer that I feel really applies to my situation.

I decided to try and recycle some peat/EWC/perlite mix from a previous grow. All I used were guano/EWC/kelp teas. The teas had molasses added.

I tested the runoff of some of the soil and the EC is beyond 3.6. Had to dilute it maybe 6:1 with water before it read around 2.4 EC

I have hard water, maybe 450 ppm.

My bag seed testers have stopped growing after a few weeks.
I can make up new soil like I always do, and probably will, but I still want to figure this out for the future.

Any ideas? It's not over/under water, or my environment, etc.
Only thing different is recycled soil vs new batch. Even the bag seed testers are from the same group i always use.
 
Gelado`

Gelado`

Active member
Veteran
I don't think EC is of any concern when growing in organic soil. I'd top dress with a healthy amount of worm castings and water in some kelp and molasses through it.
 
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