Growing style delimma

[iamoni]

I am wanting a growing style that would maximize space and yield. If you were given about 1sq ft of growing space let's say a 12" x 12" space, would you grow using LST/Scrog using one plant, or a vertical grow where you will use multiple plants surrounding the bulb?
I've been browsing the grow journals here and seems that a 1 sq ft horizontal area filled with buds is a lot more buds than a vertical system
filled with single stalk buds. (Contrary to what we know that a vertical grow offers a lot more growing space obviously specially if it is done multi tiered SOG style). The space taken up by the bulb and the space between the bulb and the single stalk buds in a vertical system should have been an are for the buds if it were in a horizontal system.
I'm not really sure if I'm right what I'm ranting about since I' have not grown plants myself and still on the planning stage. Please if some body has made a grow using the different system please correct me for I'm sure I am wrong in a lot of my theories.

Here are my thoughts.

 

[iamoni]

 

[fatigues]

Maximizing yield is all well and good as some sort of goal, but if you are planning on engaging in a 1 sq. foot micro-grow, I think you are off-base by examining the issue with such an approach.

When growing commercially, you want to maximize yield. You aren't growing commercially in a micro-grow, and sure as hell aren't doing it in a 1 sq. foot micro-grow. So why approach the issue with that view in mind?

Instead, re-examine the issue by asking yourself, what, exactly, do you hope to accomplish and why?

I put it to you that a 1 sq. foot micro-grow has a few potential goals. Here are some of them:

• To grow some pot, possibly for the first time, so you can choose which strain to grow and how;
  
• To have some fun with your project and to learn more about the subject, generally;
  
• To potentially free yourself from the need to purchase weed from anyone ever again;
  
• As an engineering challenge to attempt to do something in a confined space micro-grow simply to do it. The Mount Everest approach to micro-grow engineering.

Of these potential reasons, only bullet #4 is likely to engage the concerns you have expressed in your first post.

I would suggest that the better question to ask is: how much weed do I smoke in, say, 4 to 5 months? Is that amount modest enough that a micro-grow can potentially satisfy that goal? In order for that to be true, I would think that the answer needs to be 2-to-3 ounces, TOPS.

If you smoke more than that, how much do you smoke and can you achieve that amount by growing in a slightly larger space? If so, you should be designing your grow for that space instead.

If 2 to 3 zips (and leaning heavily towards 2) in a 4 month period is good enough for your needs (and there are a lot of micro-growers here who can satisfy their personal needs with that modest an amount) then THAT should be your design yardstick and it changes the follow-up questions significantly.

Now, your Q isn't "what's the most efficient way to grow in a 1 x 1 space, rather, the question is: how do I grow 2 zips in a 1' x 1' with as little hassle as possible?

Taking that approach farther still, depending upon where you are living, the next question is: how does plant count affect my legal risk? Generally speaking, a Sea of Green with lolly-popped plants is going to be the most efficient use of space. There are some exceptions to be sure, but that's generally the most favorable result in terms of sheer weight. However, that also comes with potentially higher legal risk and the need for a nearby mother plant, too, in most GreenBud SOG cabinets.

In some jurisdictions, the difference between no jail and jail time can result if you grow SOG style. That's a BIG issue for most growers.

You then ask the next follow-up question: is jail time and increased legal costs worth 2 grams more per month? For most people, the answer to that Q is a big fucking "no". If plant count has no bearing on sentencing in your jurisdiction, that's a big plus in favor of SOG.

That doesn't end the inquiry though. Do you want to grow in soil or hydro? If soil is the way you want to go, then fair enough. If hydro, do you own a ph/TDS meter or, if not, can you afford to buy some decent ones?

All of these questions seem a more logical and reasonable approach to starting off with a grow space design, rather than posing this as a theoretical engineering question based on square footage.

 

[plato]

What he said.
But, I would like to add that you probably don't want to go vert with such confined space.
12 inches - 3 inches for the bulb leaves 9 inches...only 4.5 inches per side. I don't think that will be too feasible.
I would say, and I am speaking from an engineering standpoint... That a horizontal grow, with 1 well trained plant is your best bet for maximizing plant/space ratio. I would find it rather difficult to fit more than 1 plant in that space and have any real mass to them.
And, take it a step further...you will want a separate area to veg your plant if you smoke any substantial quantities. That will cut you down to 2 months, instead of 4 months between harvest, making 2 zips much more reasonable.
And a small veg box would take little power/light/effort.
This would leave you with 3 plants- 1 mother, 1 vegging, and 1 in bloom.
This is just my admittedly semi-newb thought on it.

 

[plato]

I just wanna add this
Don't count your chickens.
Grow what you can, keep it basic as possible. As long as you pull some bud you are doing good. Any amount of Kind is a good thing, don't expect to get a record harvest your first round
Then look at your setup, and think...what can I do better. Tweak it as you grow, and learn how your plants behave.
You couldn't construct a skyscraper if you never nailed a 2x4

 

[iamoni]

wow! Thank you for all the replies. To fatigues, I'm growing for my personal stash. The reason why I asked this was that I want the biggest return of yield from my electricity consumption. hmmmmm now I have to reconsider that I should think of an easy system, one for beginners that can give me a yield that can last me for four months.. and maybe some for my friends

A side question though, Why can't I see any vertical grows like the last drawing in the last pictures? This one's out of curiosity. Imagine a horizontal grow with one plant filled with bud sites flipped into vertical where the buds grow horizontally. I mean you can train the buds to not go up. But I only see multiple plants arranged around vertically trained.
Is this have something to do with apical dominance or hormones?

 

[iamoni]

And a small veg box would take little power/light/effort.
.

How much light would I need for my veg box?

 

[fatigues]

wow! Thank you for all the replies. To fatigues, I'm growing for my personal stash. The reason why I asked this was that I want the biggest return of yield from my electricity consumption. hmmmmm now I have to reconsider that I should think of an easy system, one for beginners that can give me a yield that can last me for four months.. and maybe some for my friends

So let's attack this another way then: how much do you need in a month? Please appreciate this should be assessed against the buzz provided by strong, top shelf pot -- not with respect to your consumption of mids or schwag.

Let's start there and then you can come closer to determining what kind of cab you need and how to design it.

 

[fatigues]

A side question though, Why can't I see any vertical grows like the last drawing in the last pictures? This one's out of curiosity. Imagine a horizontal grow with one plant filled with bud sites flipped into vertical where the buds grow horizontally. I mean you can train the buds to not go up. But I only see multiple plants arranged around vertically trained.
Is this have something to do with apical dominance or hormones?

It would have that problem, yes. People don't like to screw with their main cola unless they have to - but that's a side issue.

Colosseum growing gains nearly all of the benefits of scrogging without any of that type of work (the grow system itself and the increased plan count already adds lots more to do). Instead of training, all you need to do is perhaps prune that part of the plant that is not facing the light and otherwise selectively defoliate to make sure bud sites are exposed to the light. And given the setup for most Colosseum grows, a lot of growers who use that style don't even bother with that.

The more plants you are growing, the more all of this adds to the amount of time and effort you put into it. Colloseum grows are almost entirely commercial in nature and the focus is on sheer weight, contrasted with the input cost.

And the time it takes to do all of this quickly starts to factor into the equation as an "input cost".

 

[iamoni]

how much do you need in a month?

About this much lasts me more than a month but not through two months

 

[iamoni]

I searched for this picture. This is an ounce, because here in our place they don't sell by weight. they just sell with small plastic bags, usually the size of a tea bag for $2.30 and then But I usually buy something like that above the picture but they are not that thick buds in the picture, a lot iof stems and seeds like dirt weed or schwag and the buds are compressed and flattened out. So I just eye-balled what I usually consume for about 1-2 months.

 

[fatigues]

Alright. I'll estimate that as 3/4 of an ounce per month. You'll want about 3 zips every 4 months then. A lil extra is good and you have friends that will join you from time to time.

If that's the case, you don't have to go with a perpetual grow. You should be fine growing from seed and cropping out once every 4 months if that's something you like. Plus it allows you to try a variety of strains and have some fun with different tastes, potencies and effects

4x55w PL-L lights should give you that harvest, with a little to spare. They require roughly a cab that is 16"-20" x 24" x 30" tall. Alternatively, you could go with CabinetNinja's Ikea Dresser Cabs, stacked one on the other and that would be A-okay for those harvest needs. Though to be clear, I don't think that those cabs scrub the odor all that well and CabinetNinja seems to agree. If odor is a big concern, you might want to change the ventilation plan.

Still, it's a solid base to start from and it has a parts list.

 

[5th]

All great advice fatigues

 

[iamoni]

Thanks for the advice too fatigues hmmm PL-L lights are hard to find to here, hardware stores don't sell them here. I think I have to go with CFL's. I'm convinced HID's will not work for me either.
55w PL-L's ..... wonder how much is their lumen output.

 

[iamoni]

(WHY can't I edit my post? I'm not comfortable with multiple posts.)
I like your idea trying out different strains because that's is also one of the reasons I want to grow on my own instead of having to deal with dealers.
New taste, new potency I'm tired of smoking low quality schwag

 

[fatigues]

Thanks for the advice too fatigues hmmm PL-L lights are hard to find to here, hardware stores don't sell them here. I think I have to go with CFL's. I'm convinced HID's will not work for me either.

55w PL-L's ..... wonder how much is their lumen output.

4800 each. However, a 55w PLL bulb is essentially a 48" T5 bent in on itself, so it delivers twice the light over half the distance. That's why they are so useful. They are really bright. You don't want to look at them when they are on, either. UV is pretty kickass at that density and lumen output.

They tend to be available for most people by ordering them through a commercial industrial lighting supply store or via mail order. They are not a Wal-Mart or Home Depot item. Well stocked aquarium stores will also carry the fixtures or can order them in.

PLL have a sleeker profile so they save room. Due to their twistie shape, 42 watt CFL's waste more of their energy in generating light that does not efficiently strike the plant. Overall the PLLs are more efficient when used with a decent reflector and with a higher lumens per watt directed over the distance.

You'll be happier with PL-L, but that doesn't mean you cannot grow with twistie CFL bulbs -- you certainly can.

if you cannot manage PLL, the 42 watt CFL bulbs can crowd up your cab and make it pretty hot in there. Still, you can save a little on the size of your vertical cap space (and reduce a little on the heat) by remotely ballasting your twistie CFLs.

 

[plato]

You need ~ 3000 lumens per square ft. to veg
Since you only have 1 square foot to fill, cfl bulbs will easily fit this bill.
I like T5 flouros personally. They can almost touch the plants, giving optimal usage of light.

 

[iamoni]

plato . Can I use them in my flo cab if I were only have 1 sq.ft?
how efficient are they?
Maybe I can use them in veg to produce mothers.
What do you guys think?

 

[plato]

Not sure what a flo cab is.
I have a 4 x 2ft T5, that puts 8000 lumens, and 96 watts.
It can also be switched to use only 2 bulbs, and 48 watts.
That works wonderfully. Shorter bulbs can be found, though you may have a less ideal fixture. I have less knowledge on CFL bulbs, but similar wattage/output cfl's are available.
Like I said, aim for 3000 lumens, and I believe you want a 6500k bulb

 

[iamoni]

I do have already bought a 6400K bulb at around 3800 lumens and planning on keeping it until flowering, what I mean for the flo cab is flowering cabinet hehehe.
What I really meant was that I searched for T5's available here in our place but the efficient ones will be 3 or 4 feet long.
I have already bought bulbs that would sum up to 12000 lumens altogether for flowering, I now wonder if I use this all in a 1 sq ft area or increase my growing area to about 1.5 to 2 sqft area and divide the lights. I wonder if it would give me a more bigger yield.