Blasting BHO into water

[grod31]

oh boy here we go. I know how much you guys love this
i have been told blasting into water is actually stopping the process and prolonging the purge.

This is what gray wolf said to me while ago

The essential oils are not 100% insoluble in water, so some is absorbed and hard to get rid of.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Besides washing away some of the flavor, if not completely removed, it can promote spoilage and molding.

It also requres excessive heat to purge out the water.

We do everything in our power to keep water out of our extractions.

yeah so i have made BHO now for close to 10 years.Water works better.Its easy as fuck to get all the water out. I can do it in a few mis-
I have not even one time seen oil spoil(someone please show me spoiled oil from water contamination). IF any taste change is pressent its so minuscule that it is unnoticable to the average person

i have kept oil that was blasted into water in glass jars that after a full years or longer were beautiful vials of hard amber glass

I have a vacuum chamber/pump/ and hotplate/laser thermometer and slick pads.

i have literally made oil 100's of times maybe in the 1000's i have done with water and without- i get the same product every time(depending on the product used).Oil that is not shatter but can be picked up with your hands.
i just want one reason to not blastint water

 

[OrganicOzarks]

Remember that just because you blast in water, that does not mean she can't get pregnant. Seriously though.

 

[RegisPhilburn1]

If your going to get the water out at the end, why introduce it in the first place? Seems counter productive...

You would have much better luck switching your water for a thin film of ethanol.

I think it is up to YOU to give us one good reason to blast into water, not the other way around.

 

[whiterasta]

Long time since I dropped in. But was asked to weigh in here as an Organic Chemist. Raw gum suspended in a "wet" solvent(31mlH2O/L) like butane and then into water will form hydrated compounds which are never fully purged and have significantly different properties than those in the plant or a "dry" extraction. This is a viable method only if one intends to remove these artifacts of extraction. In general, using easily available solvents one wants to work as dry and cold as possible to get the cleanest products. Again while liquid water is fairly easy to dry out of an extract the hydrates formed are not and do not have the same properties as the dehydrated forms. Both the oriented trichome waxes and some of the more polar terpenes from hydrates in excess water and many terpenes chiral rotation can be changed by solvent extraction All of these factors play into a targeted extract to maximize purity and cleanliness

 

[grod31]

to RegisPhilburn1-you collect it 10X easier.As in you can collect what you just made with zero effort.no scraping,scraping,scraping.It just sticks to itself one motion from the pan to the slick pad.
also i feel that the water absorbs some of the impurity like chlorophyll.


edit- i wrote this before the last post was up.I thank you for your response.

so the official answer is "hydrates formed are not and do not have the same properties as the dehydrated forms."

although i dont understand what you just said, im sure it makes sense and ill find someone to dumb it down for me

if the properties are significantly different then how come they come out the same? when i do it with water or without.
The only real factor i have ever found for the effect quality of the end product is the quality of the beginning product.


also the stuff i mentioned i blasted into water and left in glass vials for over a year looked identical in apearence to those beautiful bars in the post above, just not in that shape.

 

[FatherEarth]

Are you saying wet oil cannot mold and you want to see some that has? Cause I have some mircoscope photos of moldy oil and it was never even in contact with water. With the naked eye you can see cloudiness in the oil with the microscope you can see that it is mold. However it is partially inhibited growth from the cannabis oil properties, it is mold never the less. I have seen oil collect and make a patty on top of cooled water after cleaning my tools that was easily handled and thought there could be a way to do just what you are talking about... Lets see some pictures of your technique and end results. Show me why I should try blasting into water...
Lets see some A+ oil.


Respectfully,


FE

 

[grod31]

first i'm not saying "wet" oil can not mold. anything can mold if the conditions are right.If mushrooms can eat petroleum im sure mold can grow on hashoil.
i would love to see the moldy oil pics. when i look at mine under a microscope i have never seen strings or webs-what i'm assuming you see(mycelium) actual spores would be crazy-

Its September so there will be plenty of oil making going on soon enough.

 

[Gray Wolf]

What WS said and to get rid of any solvent, you must consider its boiling point and what the extra heat does to the end product.

Among other things, it drives off the lighter monoterpenes, leaving the end product less floral.

If you will have your product tested both ways, I believe you will see differences, that you may not be able to pick up on eyeballing and toking.

You might also consider setting up volunteer test panels, like we do, because more heads are better than one, even of some are cabbage.

If you have any pictures of the product that you are promoting, it might help us put things in perspective. A thin film back lighted would be best, to enable us to check for clarity that you don't get with hydrates and water present.

Not to say that your senses aren't superior to mine, as mine are ooood and tattered, but as a tongue in cheek observation, I've judged contests where the entrants paid big bucks to win over all other entries and the products were so bad that none of the judges would taste them, after looking at them and sniffing.

That sort of highlights that everyone's perspective and standards aren't the same and a picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[grod31]

i appreciate the answers. I'm not trying to be a smart ass or say my oil is better then anyone,I am not promoting anything.Just that i have done it for a long time and my own toking and tongue cannot tell the difference between water and not.
I really do appreciate you and others taking your time to try and drill it in to me.

I will be glad to acquire a camera and take pictures on my upcoming runs. I do not have a camera( 3 broken ones)And i dont have a smart phone.

also one more thing I am from NY there is no way for me to run whole buds when i can hardly grow enough to smoke for the year without everyone knowing.I use my popcorn and trim. So without whole buds i'm sure the bulk of my oil isnt as pretty as yours.I dont know how possible it would be for me to get things tested if you know a place please send a link here or to my PM's

edit- Have you never blasted into water and thjen did all the same steps you normally would??If you have then i dont think i would be on trial

 

[Gray Wolf]

i appreciate the answers. I'm not trying to be a smart ass or say my oil is better then anyone,I am not promoting anything.Just that i have done it for a long time and my own toking and tongue cannot tell the difference between water and not.
I really do appreciate you and others taking your time to try and drill it in to me.

I will be glad to acquire a camera and take pictures on my upcoming runs. I do not have a camera( 3 broken ones)And i dont have a smart phone.

also one more thing I am from NY there is no way for me to run whole buds when i can hardly grow enough to smoke for the year without everyone knowing.I use my popcorn and trim. So without whole buds i'm sure the bulk of my oil isnt as pretty as yours.I dont know how possible it would be for me to get things tested if you know a place please send a link here or to my PM's

edit- Have you never blasted into water and thjen did all the same steps you normally would??If you have then i dont think i would be on trial

I have blasted into water, and found that it takes more heat and vacuum to get rid of it. I'm not speaking hypothetically, but from experience.

You're not on trial, but not all of us agree with you. You asked for one reason not to blast into water and looks like you got two.

You mentioned a third, and that is that you don't get shatter, even though it can be handled. Have you pondered why that might be?

 

[prune]

i appreciate the answers. I'm not trying to be a smart ass or say my oil is better then anyone,I am not promoting anything.Just that i have done it for a long time and my own toking and tongue cannot tell the difference between water and not.
I really do appreciate you and others taking your time to try and drill it in to me.

Try googling "Peter Principle", everybody's got one, seems like you've found yours...

and wait for it, wait.... "just say'n"

 

[Infinitesimal]

Long time since I dropped in. But was asked to weigh in here as an Organic Chemist. Raw gum suspended in a "wet" solvent(31mlH2O/L) like butane and then into water will form hydrated compounds which are never fully purged and have significantly different properties than those in the plant or a "dry" extraction. This is a viable method only if one intends to remove these artifacts of extraction. In general, using easily available solvents one wants to work as dry and cold as possible to get the cleanest products. Again while liquid water is fairly easy to dry out of an extract the hydrates formed are not and do not have the same properties as the dehydrated forms. Both the oriented trichome waxes and some of the more polar terpenes from hydrates in excess water and many terpenes chiral rotation can be changed by solvent extraction All of these factors play into a targeted extract to maximize purity and cleanliness

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=17926&pictureid=1028987&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

best answer given on the internet... ever.

 

[grod31]

You mentioned a third, and that is that you don't get shatter, even though it can be handled. Have you pondered why that might be?

i assume because i always run mixed trim or make bubble hash/drysift before running bho.

 

[m314]

You would have much better luck switching your water for a thin film of ethanol.

Why a thin film of ethanol? I was thinking about blasting into a larger amount of ethanol as a shortcut to winterizing. From what I understand, the butane should evaporate fully before the ethanol does. After that I'd just freeze, filter, and let the ethanol evaporate.

 

[BigSteve]

I've been blasting in to water atleast 80% of the time for about 4 or 5 years. When you make it in to water you will get that yellowish/clearish weird stuff that comes out of the butane in the water. If you are careful to get the BHO out of the water nicely, you can use centrifugal force to get a large amount of the water right then. Then turn it sideways and dry next to fan. After I make BHO it usually comes out like sand. It can be handled and doesn't stick to anything. But if you use expensive Butane there usually isn't much of that stuff.

I smoke it in a ***** pipe with a torch. If you use a lighter it doesn't work. It's way to harsh, you can't even get a proper hit. You gotta be careful the first few hits you take! <<<<<<<<<<<<no hard drug references>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Every little impurity is a serious gag-er. Gotta keep that stuff clean.

Blasting in to alcohol sounds like a good idea though. I'll have to ponder this.

Just my experience! I'm no pro. ^^

 

[RegisPhilburn1]

Why a thin film of ethanol? I was thinking about blasting into a larger amount of ethanol as a shortcut to winterizing. From what I understand, the butane should evaporate fully before the ethanol does. After that I'd just freeze, filter, and let the ethanol evaporate.

I dont mean to suggest it as a good practice, just better than blasting into water. I tried it once on a small run after a friend suggested it and ended in a light colored wax, which tasted fine, like other ethanol washed extracts sans winerization.

To be honest im not really sure why it would be a bad thing to do, if your going to winterize. except maybe it would be hard to tell when the butane is gone and when it is safe for the freezer. Its also not possible in a closed system.

 

[m314]

I dont mean to suggest it as a good practice, just better than blasting into water. I tried it once on a small run after a friend suggested it and ended in a light colored wax, which tasted fine, like other ethanol washed extracts sans winerization.

To be honest im not really sure why it would be a bad thing to do, if your going to winterize. except maybe it would be hard to tell when the butane is gone and when it is safe for the freezer. Its also not possible in a closed system.

The butane should be mostly gone if the alcohol has stopped bubbling at room temperature. At that point you could either winterize or just let the alcohol evaporate. I think. I haven't actually tried it that way yet.

I'm no pro either. I've just been making new batches over the last couple months and trying out new techniques. A closed system probably isn't worth the price for a hobbyist grower like me. I might try blasting into water at some point too, at least with a small batch.

 

[jump117]

it would be hard to tell when the butane is gone and when it is safe for the freezer.

I suppose that evaporating butane will chill EtOH down to iso-butane BP and n-butane will not evaporate from cold ethanol.
It will take longer time and needs temperature control.

 

[grod31]

i need a fuckin camera!!!

 

[midwestHIGHS]

i assume because i always run mixed trim or make bubble hash/drysift before running bho.

No it's because your blasting into water. The mixture of cannabinoids, terpenes, flavonoids, plant waxes, lipids and fats have been hydrated with water causing them to appear opaqe and waxy.

I can't believe people are still using this fail tec..