4x2 tent setup help

[indianajones]

indiana jones how many 4 1 in each corner or is that too much heat? are they easy to hang

I'm pretty excited to see you kick this off, but I'm a total nerd for new technologies.

Yes, one in each corner. I would imagine they are pretty easy to hang, but I have only ever hung them horizontally.

Get a nice pH/ec meter; it is a must imo, especially since you bought chemical fertilizers.

Tower fans take up floor space and are waste of space in a situation with very limited square footage.
Get a 6" fan (oscillating if you can find one) and hang it from the tent's ceiling with a chain.

Plant saucers are a necessity, and if you don't have cash to get them locally, get them with your credit.

For soil, I would say go with roots organics soilless, Fox farm ocean forest, sunshine advanced #4, or espoma.
Start off with this bottle grow, but IME organic water only pot has been the best quality. Here is a soil mixture that
I have had great results using, and requires nothing but pH'd water the entire duration of flowering.

The mix for this run is-
15 gallons sunshine advanced mix #4
5 gallons fox farms happy frog
5 gallons chunky verm
1 quart alfalfa
1 quart kelp
1 quart espoma bio tone starter plus
1 quart soft rock phosphate
1 quart greensand
1 cup oyster shell and coral mix
1 cup lime
1 cup unsweetened coconut
1 cup flax meal

A bottle of liquid karma would be a good thing to pick up, is really awesome for a couple reasons.
One, it is an excellent humic and fulvic supplement, two, it is an organic pH down.
A lot of folks don't pH their water in soil, but I do to 6.5.

Wait and do some real plants instead of autos, if you veg them for that long you will overgrow
your tent. I'm not hating on autos in any way, shape, or form, but you spent some serious scratch
so you should be lookin' for a pheno that is gonna match the quality of the equipment you just bought.

Sour Diesel is typically a stretchy plant and a low yielder. That seed company advertising an
auto for 12/12 gives me a really bad vibe. If you don't even know what "autoflowering" means,
your seeds probably won't be worth a damn. The breeder talks himself up quite a bit also, saying
he is one of the best known online. The TGA varieties I have are pretty damn good, so are DJ
short (but his seeds are prohibitively expensive for a lot of folks). OGraskal makes some BOMB
fuel tasting strains, everything I have sampled from his gear has been absolutely fantastic.

 

[Phychotron]

A tower fan in the canopy will keep the air flowing within the leaf structure, not just over the top(which is also good to have). You can also set the plants on something to lift them up to the height over the tower base in order to move them in tighter (maybe a half inch). The small tower fans have a very small base and can bet set on a stool to get them up to the right height, but no more than a 2-liter bottle sized footprint. Then after they're a certain height the base stays about 12" round.

Air circulation is critical to me, especially around the lower leaves. I would even say maybe two tower fans would be better, preferably one with a manually-operated switch so that if the power ever cuts out the fan will come back on with it.

Oh, and you will eventually want to pick a ppm/pH meter if your going to use that many bottles of nutrients. Your in soil so mixing it light and only feeding every 2-3 waterings then you should be fine at first without the meter (you'll stop using it as you learn your own personal mix), but you'll probably will want to mix them up a bit heavier as the plant responds. I'd be more concerned about ppm than pH, as nutrients tend to lower the pH to about right with soil. Some things raise the pH (like silica) but most lower it a bit, or do nothing.

Expect to battle the fungus gnats with your soil. I've been using the product "fungicide 3" and its done a great job for me so far. Cheap and effective, organic. The concentrate is the only one worth buying, it will last awhile unless you have some major outbreaks. I don't recall how it handles gnats specifically, but it takes care of the other bugs and powder mildew with no problem. I watered a friends plant and it turned over about a million thripes, watered them with the f3 and it killed them all within about 10 minutes. Ive also been keeping my thripe problem at bay as a foliar spray. GenHydro makes the azamax cartridge-concentrate that has like 10 vials and an empty spray bottle that works well. You wont always need an insecticide, but when you do you will wish you had one on hand. The F3 is only around $14-20 depending on where you buy it, but well worth having some on hand.

 

[crazyb]

i thought the fox farms line i bought was organic

 

[crazyb]

well i guess i screwed myself lol spent well over a 100 on nutes so far "shit" lol well someone lay it on me whats the easiest complete organic nute setup i need?

 

[crazyb]

so if i wanted to do fems how many should i get what would be the fastest i could pull a crop that isnt 2oz's only lol

 

[crazyb]

also what size saucers for 2 & 3 gallon pots? i have 6 2 gallon airpots and 6 3 gallon now or should i have got 3 gallons im just worried about bleaching and dont want the plants to get to tall as i know the bigger the pot the taller the plant usually and larger

 

[crazyb]

is coco better than soil i just want the most noob proof method i would like organic if possible and if i dont have to ph and etc that would be great because im lost on nutes that has been my greatest downfall

 

[indianajones]

A tower fan in the canopy will keep the air flowing within the leaf structure, not just over the top(which is also good to have). You can also set the plants on something to lift them up to the height over the tower base in order to move them in tighter (maybe a half inch). The small tower fans have a very small base and can bet set on a stool to get them up to the right height, but no more than a 2-liter bottle sized footprint. Then after they're a certain height the base stays about 12" round.

You can angle the fan that is hung downwards into the canopy, nobody said it HAS to be angled at the light. I run the exact setup I am telling him to use, tent and all. a tower fan has a larger footprint than a 2L bottle lol...

Air circulation is critical to me, especially around the lower leaves. I would even say maybe two tower fans would be better, preferably one with a manually-operated switch so that if the power ever cuts out the fan will come back on with it.

That seems silly to me to say "air circulation is critical to me", air circulation should be critical to everyone! I don't think you have observed a few key things here. He is obviously not in a medical state like you, so he needs to get the most he can from his grow. His tent is only 3x3, not a bigger space like you have. Two tower fans in a 3x3 tent is overkill, it won't be better. I'm pretty positive he would have transpiration stress if he got two tower fans in a 9 sq ft grow space. It would also take up about 1/4 of his grow space with fans.

I am running a tent that is pretty much the same size as the one he ordered, giving him advice to do the same thing I am doing with success. As in "I have experience with the exact thing I am advising." I don't see a 3x3 tent grow anywhere under your threads. Air circulation on the lower leaves is easy if you keep your canopy well maintained. No fancy fans, just proper garden maintenance.

Oh, and you will eventually want to pick a ppm/pH meter if your going to use that many bottles of nutrients. Your in soil so mixing it light and only feeding every 2-3 waterings then you should be fine at first without the meter (you'll stop using it as you learn your own personal mix), but you'll probably will want to mix them up a bit heavier as the plant responds. I'd be more concerned about ppm than pH, as nutrients tend to lower the pH to about right with soil. Some things raise the pH (like silica) but most lower it a bit, or do nothing.

He already said that he ordered chemical nutrients, please read the thread if you want to give advice. Not reading the thread can lead to giving bad advice, which will lead a new grower astray and cause unnecessary frustration. Nutrients lower the pH way lower than what soil needs. Usually in the range of 4.5-4.8, which will cause lockout pretty much instantly and burn your plants to a crisp within 3-4 days if you don't flush it out and re-apply. I don't think you have ran many brands of nutrients if you say that "most lower it a bit, or do nothing" I've used five different brands now and they all lower pretty far (as in way out of the nutrient availability profile for soil) when mixing at even half strength. pH is way more important than ppms. They have directions to mix fertilizers on the bottle and if you can only get one meter, get a pH meter and mix the nutrients at 1/4 strength. They don't have pH directions on a bottle do they?

Expect to battle the fungus gnats with your soil. I've been using the product "fungicide 3" and its done a great job for me so far. Cheap and effective, organic. The concentrate is the only one worth buying, it will last awhile unless you have some major outbreaks. I don't recall how it handles gnats specifically, but it takes care of the other bugs and powder mildew with no problem. I watered a friends plant and it turned over about a million thripes, watered them with the f3 and it killed them all within about 10 minutes. Ive also been keeping my thripe problem at bay as a foliar spray. GenHydro makes the azamax cartridge-concentrate that has like 10 vials and an empty spray bottle that works well. You wont always need an insecticide, but when you do you will wish you had one on hand. The F3 is only around $14-20 depending on where you buy it, but well worth having some on hand.

using a fungicide in your soil is a bad idea IMO. partner with the fungus! using a biological control for gnats is a much better idea because you won't be destroying any beneficial soil fungus. get thuricide by bonide for gnats, it is on amazon. i am using it currently, and it is wiping the gnats out with the quickness. it is a bacterial product that kills gnats through biological means.

 

[Phychotron]

I didnt really look very hard at your nutrients, but if they're organic you probably wont need the ph/ppm. the ppm's will not jump too high as they are larger organic molecules that have yet to break down.

I use pure coco for a few reasons, its easier for my setup, the plants love it, and I don't need to haul a bunch of bags to and from the apartment like with soil (reusable). Its a little more advanced and the plants respond fast--its hydroponic but a different medium and watering style. I like it much better than soil, but I think its something that you want to have some experience with before switching over to. I'm not sure how it responds to organic, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be as effective since coco is not an organic medium--made to be inert so your nutrients can go right into the plant.

The brick coco needs to be treated before use, if you want to add some straight to your soil you can get the stuff in the bag that's been washed and prepped.
But if your just adding just a brick of coco to a lot of soil you should be fine not treating it. Adding coco is for when you want to lighten the soil and increase drainage. You'll be fine without it if your soil is decent.

The more coco the more you will need to feed. Plus they need to be watered more often if using a lot of coco. Its less work in the long run, but more experience is needed to get it down, as the plants are at your command with nutrients.

Your gonna need to size up your plant saucers yourself, they're cheap enough at the stores. Don't get the ultra thin plastic disposable one's unless your really on a tight budget, cause they don't last as long as the thick green one's. You should be able to support the entire plant by holding the saucer. If they're too large they take up too much floor space.

 

[indianajones]

if i were buying seeds, i would get ten seeds. nine is probably going to be the most that you can fit in your tent.

do you prefer indica or sativa high? what is your favorite flavor? (diesel, fruity, musky, earthy, etc)

the reason i would recommend coco is because your situation seems to dictate the necessity of stealth. a brick of coco is compressed and very easy to hide, a bag of soil, not so much. coco is pretty easy to grow with, and when i have taught my friends to grow in the past, it is the medium i had them run the first time. if you make a mistake, it is easy to flush it out and the yields are outstanding if you get it right.

you could do general organics line of fertilizers, they make a sampler pack that has all the stuff in it for $30, it is enough nutrition to get you through a grow. you could also use neptune's harvest fish/kelp hydroslate, or iguana juice. they tell you not to adjust the pH with the general organics line, but i call shenanigans. you definitely need to adjust the pH or your root zone will swing into the 5.5 to 5.8 range and cause major problems.

here is a link to fox farm's feeding schedule. i would cut the dosages down to half if you are going to run it in coco, their ppms seem high IMO.

http://foxfarmfertilizer.com/images/pdf/HydroENG.pdf

my coco mixture is 1:1:1:1 cocoerlite:verm:compost. the compost adds humics and helps keep stuff chelated, and adds bacteria to the soil, which improves flavor IME. they sell 2 gallon bags of perlite and verm at home de pot and slowes for under $5. try not to buy compost that has been stored outside, it will likely bring bugs home to your plants. a bag of castings and some azomite from amazon would be excellent purchases. add two tbsp of azomite to your 3g containers for a full spectrum micronutrient blend.

these castings actually say what they fed the worms, and the food souce looks awesome IMO- rabbits fed an alfalfa diet.

http://www.amazon.com/GreenSense-Wo...1378231878&sr=8-9&keywords=earthworm+castings

azomite-

http://www.amazon.com/Pounds-Azomit...e=UTF8&qid=1378232152&sr=8-3&keywords=azomite

if you use a bigger pot, it doesn't necessarily translate into a taller plant. training makes all the difference. six three gallon containers would fill your tent really well, you should pick up some twine to tie down branches though. you can use a paperclip as an anchor with smart pots. just poke the paper clip through the fabric and you're good to go!

 

[indianajones]

I didnt really look very hard at your nutrients, but if they're organic you probably wont need the ph/ppm. the ppm's will not jump too high as they are larger organic molecules that have yet to break down.

come on man, if you are going to help someone, at least read the thread... you might not be helping them at all if you don't.

I use pure coco for a few reasons, its easier for my setup, the plants love it, and I don't need to haul a bunch of bags to and from the apartment like with soil (reusable). Its a little more advanced and the plants respond fast--its hydroponic but a different medium and watering style. I like it much better than soil, but I think its something that you want to have some experience with before switching over to. I'm not sure how it responds to organic, but I'd imagine it wouldn't be as effective since coco is not an organic medium--made to be inert so your nutrients can go right into the plant.

Organics in coco works rather well, you just have to adjust the watering schedule. Keeping it moist, but not fully wet is best when using organics. There again, I have experience with what I am recommending. Coco isn't an organic medium? Are you crazy lol? Coco is the composted husk of a coconut lol... can't get much more organic than that!

The brick coco needs to be treated before use, if you want to add some straight to your soil you can get the stuff in the bag that's been washed and prepped.
But if your just adding just a brick of coco to a lot of soil you should be fine not treating it. Adding coco is for when you want to lighten the soil and increase drainage. You'll be fine without it if your soil is decent.

You weren't very specific when you said "treat your coco" but I will clear that up for you so OP understands. Coco holds on to calcium ions. You need to add calcium to it before you plant in it. This can be accomplished a few different ways. One is adding some gypsum at a rate of tbsp per gallon. Another is watering with a calmag product, but that is pointless if you have hard water. If you have hard water (which is another good reason to have a pH meter; for water testing) it will contain enough calcium to buffer the medium.

The more coco the more you will need to feed. Plus they need to be watered more often if using a lot of coco. Its less work in the long run, but more experience is needed to get it down, as the plants are at your command with nutrients.

That isn't necessarily true. In some instances it is, but in others it is not. When you transplant initially, before the plant is established, then you don't need to feed and water that often. When your plant has colonized the container fully with roots, watering frequency goes up. Blanketing the feeding schedule under the same principle is a mistake though, water the plant and figure out when it needs food. Some varieties are extremely nutrient sensitive, so you don't need to feed as often.

Your gonna need to size up your plant saucers yourself, they're cheap enough at the stores. Don't get the ultra thin plastic disposable one's unless your really on a tight budget, cause they don't last as long as the thick green one's. You should be able to support the entire plant by holding the saucer. If they're too large they take up too much floor space.

I totally agree with that statement. I would recommend 12" saucers for 3 gallon smart pots.

 

[Phychotron]

You can angle the fan that is hung downwards into the canopy, nobody said it HAS to be angled at the light. I run the exact setup I am telling him to use, tent and all. a tower fan has a larger footprint than a 2L bottle lol...

the small one's that are about a foot tall are that size. Two of those would be needed.

That seems silly to me to say "air circulation is critical to me", air circulation should be critical to everyone! I don't think you have observed a few key things here. He is obviously not in a medical state like you, so he needs to get the most he can from his grow. His tent is only 3x3, not a bigger space like you have. Two tower fans in a 3x3 tent is overkill, it won't be better. I'm pretty positive he would have transpiration stress if he got two tower fans in a 9 sq ft grow space. It would also take up about 1/4 of his grow space with fans.

You'd be surprised how many peopole don't have adequate ventilation, sorry if I look silly telling a newb that its important. Set on low they are fine touching the plants, maybe some minor wind damage but not enough to be concerned with. Two fans would take up 2 8" round sections if you lifted the pots off the base.

Nutrients lower the pH way lower than what soil needs. Usually in the range of 4.5-4.8

I've only seen that type of drop using RO water, most other brands Ive used drop it no more than ~6.3. Also by 'do nothing' I was referring to additives.

using a fungicide in your soil is a bad idea IMO.

i only mean as an emergency countermeasure, i dont do preventative maintainence sprays. Also with coco i ditched the beneficials all together and let the medium/nutrients do all the work.

 

[Phychotron]

by not organic I meant that the medium is suppose to be inert and that your not trying to break it down in order to feed the plant. Its low CEC and interaction with Cal/Mg is what make it great for inorganic nutrients.

 

[indianajones]

You just are not paying attention to this thread at all, and it shows. OP is using a 3x3 tent. Using two fans with 8" bases would take away two plants. He can only run 6-9. I'm sorry, but your advice on fans is just bad...

I think you don't understand water chemistry or you are lying when you say you've only seen that drop using RO water. My water tests at 7.4-7.5 out of the tap (here and in several other grow houses I have had over the years), and when I add h3ad's formula it drops to 4.8. Botanicare's line had an even more extreme drop (usually to around 4.3), General organics dropped to about 5.5. I don't think you were referring to additives in that spot either, you were talking about nutrients immediately before and didn't specify the change, it seems more likely you gave bad advice and are feeling like you need to cover your tail to save face. That is unnecessary, just read the thread and give sound advice that is in line with your level of experience. Judging by your posts, I don't think you have been growing that long, maybe a few years at most. Just take some more time to learn before giving advice and you will be doing fine, much love to ya!

It is impossible to ditch beneficials in coco, know why? Because coco itself is an organic medium. It has been composted before use and is loaded with bacteria! Not only that, but the plant doesn't stop producing root exudates for the rhizosphere just because it is in coco. That means the same sugary bacteria food that your plants produce in soil is still being produced in coco. Bacteria still cozy up to the roots whether you add them or not, because that is just how plants work!

You aren't silly because you told a newb it is important, you look silly because air circulation and FAE are important to everyone. Minor wind damage means you have an environmental problem that could be corrected and the plants would be happier. Defending bad advice is a waste of time man, just spend that time learning why the advice was bad to begin with and get yourself back on track.

Here's a shot of my tent. You can see a single 6" grow fan, and the plants are just fine. Only one of em needed staked, and it has really thin stems (the stem coming out of the ground on a 2 foot plant is smaller than a pencil).

 

[indianajones]

by not organic I meant that the medium is suppose to be inert and that your not trying to break it down in order to feed the plant. Its low CEC and interaction with Cal/Mg is what make it great for inorganic nutrients.

Well, you aren't using the terminology properly, and that is confusing for newbs. Please don't proliferate misinformation because you haven't taken the time to learn the terms proper yourself.

 

[Phychotron]

Your seriously telling me you could not fit a fan in that tent? looks like you've got a ton of space in the front center there. I know you are pretty arrogant and will die hard to be right, but you cannot tell me that your tiny fan gets that lower back corner as well as it does the tops. When the plants start to fill in there is a lot of wind blockage.

The wind damage is negligible, the branches that grow into the fan itself have short hairs, but the branches 3" away are fine. the solution would be to cut the branch out, but since the buds are fine I just leave them. The fan on low is not powerful enough to do much damage. My plants are much happier with wind through the canopy. It keeps insects and PM down.

Two might be excessive, but one wouldn't take up that much space unless he's using square pots to use every single square inch--there is almost always room between round pots. My theory is that its better to have more air exchange than not enough. One 6" fan on the top is pushing it bare minimum, wouldn't you say?

We all have different water chemistry, but in my experience mixing a light nutrient solution will not drop your pH to 4.5, ever. Cal/Mg plays an important role, but should be adequate in most tap water to prevent huge drops in pH with a light feed.

Check the pH differences on most additives, they wont change much, as its usually the base nutrient that does the most pH dropping, and there are only a few things that raise pH. Thats the general rule, but I'm sure there are exceptions.

I don't want to argue with you, its going to go nowhere. Especially since he's got organic nutrients were wasting his time.

 

[crazyb]

lemme ask this if i buy bio bizz grow and bloom are they organic? could i use those in place of fox farms grow and bloom and be better off than my fox farms line? or this? i could still return the other nutes and get this http://www.amazon.com/BioBizz-BBSTA...8&qid=1378522973&sr=1-6&keywords=bio+bizz+kit

 

[crazyb]

whats the best organic line that would be good with maybe pro mix bx or pro mix organic whatever its called?

 

[crazyb]

besides bio bizz grow and bloom what can i get for fragrance trichromes bloom booster if needed thats organic any input would be appreciated

 

[positivity]

General organics 5ml grow 5ml bloom....floralicious 1ml....floranectar 5ml...bloombastic 2ml

Last few weeks or when signs of too much nitrogen such as curling or burnt tips instead of 5ml grow 5ml bloom switch to 10ml bloom

Floranectar and floralicious optional. Calmag supplementation if in r/o, none needed if using tap that has enough

Do it in straight coco with a little runoff each watering in larger pots so you don't have to water as often. Watch your shit explode

I use recycled organic soil now but if your gonna use bottles that's a killer combo and very simple