Why aren´t more of you growing ROLS

[Weird]

even i can see the difference between bottled nutrients and sourcing stuff in bags from feed stores and making your own. the one is supporting the petrochemical industry as well as all the middle men, while the other is supporting local businesses for natural non processed products. the one is made in a chemical factory, the other is harvested by your local farmers. 1 is shipped and travels all over the world or at least half way across the country before you get it. the other is sourced inside a few mile radius of where it's used. so yeah slightly different even for an organics newb.

your talking from a limited perspective

not many of the feed stores here carry locally produced product (source > 100 miles) but still there remains plenty of safe organic products as well

some are raw (they even have raw organic components at the hydro shop like neem meal from neem source) and some are prepared for use (like kelpack) yet they are still premium organic components

the refinement process is where value can be added or quality can be undermined.

to make organic soil from raw self sufficient sustainable resources is ideal but we all vary from that model based on several factors which boil down to availability and cost

a persons time has a value too and the cost to source raw materials and make organics from a complete DIY endevor is not attractive to everyone because of opportunity cost (it is different for everyone) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost)

while ROLS is very attractive to some it is less attractive to others, some because of viability and I can cite many growers who use completely organic inputs to achieve a superior result.

this is where the chest beating based on cost losses its steam

is there something wrong with companies buy raw materials from farms, adding value in some manner and selling it as a agricultural product?

I have a question for you weird....... do you have a normal garden with tomatos, peppers, melons and things? if so how many of those are JUST indigenous to your local area? Some of them? all of them? or none of them?

only my foodstuff (none of which are invasive unlike say the dandelion) the rest of my yard is local flora only

the seed stock for food stuff was sourced from baker creek and a local organic farm

my land has been organic no till since before icmag was a twinkle in gypsy's eye as it was before me (a relative) the chairman of a very progressive organic farm which from which many publications were born.

if prohibition was not factor I would link some of what was being done in the 80s on that farm, the books that were authored by the main caretaker of the farm and what I witnessed first hand

but this isn't a thread about me

this is a thread titled why dont more people grow rols and bring value into the equation

I am arguing that the outputs that matter, not specific inputs and methods inputs, so for some people the value of ROLS is not the same as is it to you

value is the weakest part of ROLS value

the value has everything to do with giving a plant the optimal environment it evolved has evolved to perform withing

the value has everything to do with ecology and sustainability and economy of use

the value has everything to do with understanding the relationship between rhizosphere and soil and learning how to craft living soil from local sustainable raw components regardless of locale or resource

If personally I did not want to transition to blumats specifically I would be recycling and using exclusively EWC and teas.

 

[dank.frank]

I just want to thank everyone for letting me speak my mind without walking through a mine field - I'll be honest - I know I vented a little bit...and it felt pretty good...

But - it really is the last I ever want to feel the need to do so...I think cannabis, by the nature of growing it and being in circles of those who NEED it (medical patients) you learn certain character traits - patience, endurance, humility, kindness, LOVE, etc...

If you fail to grow as a person while growing your garden, you've really missed the best part of being a farmer...

I'm not perfect - those that know me, know this - but I have grown and learned much because of this plant and because of this community...

I just want to thank everyone for allowing me to be a part - it has always been an honor to share what little it is I've managed to figure out over the years. May we all keep learning and growing together, as a truly unified group of growers...of people.

My apologies to any of you I've offended or rubbed the wrong way with a few of these posts...



dank.Frank

 

[DARC MIND]

thank you for the insight DF
I was not aware that stuff, went beyond these boards

here's a neat ontopic quote imo from one of the leaders of this time
Bill Mollison's "Introduction to Permacultur"

I believe we must change our philosophy before anything else changes. Change the philosophy of competition (which now pervades our educational system) to that of cooperation in free associations, change our material insecurity for a secure humanity, challenge the individual for the tribe, oil for calories, and money for products.

But the greatest change we need to make is from consumption to production, even if on a small scale, in our own gardens. If only 10% of us do this, there is enough for everyone. Hence the futility of revolutionaries who have no gardens, who depend on the very system they attack, and who produce words and bullets, not food and shelter. It sometimes seems that we are caught, all of us on earth, in a conscious or unconscious conspiracy to keep ourselves helpless. And yet it is people who produce all the needs of other people, and together we can survive. We ourselves can cure all the famine, all the injustice, and all the stupidity of the world. We can do it by understanding the way natural garden systems work, by careful forestry and gardening, by contemplation and by taking care of the earth.

People who force nature force themselves. When we grow only wheat, we become dough. If we seek only money, we become brass; and if we stay in the childhood of team sports, we become a stuffed leather ball. Beware the monoculturalist, in religion, health, farm or factory.He is driven mad by boredom, and can create war and try to assert power, because he is in fact powerless.

To become a complete person, we must travel many paths, and to truly own anything we must first give it all away. This is not a riddle. Only those who share their multiple and varied skills, true friendships, and a sense of community and knowledge of the earth know they are safe wherever they go.

There are plenty of fights and adventures to hand; the fight against cold, hunger, poverty, ignorance, overpopulation and greed; adventures in friendship, humanity, applied ecology, and sophisticated design - which would be a far better life than you may be living now, and which would mean a life for our children.

There is no other path for us than that of cooperative productivity and community responsibility. Take that path, and it will change your life in ways you cannot yet imagine.

_Bill Mollison
not to be confused with the new member kinda shaming the name

 

[milkyjoe]

Now that I am not being a little bitch (respect Von, that was professional moderating)...I think one problem is people simply do not understand what good compost is. I did not and did not figure it out until I got some actual good vermicompost...then the light bulb went off. You get bad compost and it is going to fail on you and that is going to run some people off.

And I know, lots of talk about what good compost is. And maybe I am the only dumb ass that did not get it...but maybe not. How you tell someone what they need to experience themselves is above my pay grade...but maybe someone can do it.

 

[Greenheart]

My wormbin changed my life forever. As scrappy said "compost is key". Feed them well you will get what you put into it and more.

"Pet soil" I can't take full credit but I did hear it first on IC

 

[vonforne]

Most people learn by experience. I did before the internet was up. Just went through seeds, cuts and lots of different mixes. I had one that worked for years then EWC.......and my plants did much better even though it was bagged. I started hunting local people for what ever compost I could find. Composted manure was the easiest. But the EWC you just can´t beat.

 

[vonforne]

I have been slowly sifting out of my 30 gallon to the 45. A little each day and I bait the remaining worms with bananas. Once they gather up I take them out and put them in the new bin so the sifting doesn´t rough them up so bad......some get roughed up but not all.

 

[vonforne]

and right now they are the only pets I have......lol

 

[milkyjoe]

My issue is volume. I can find a yard of good stuff no worries. But when you go to mixing 200 yards of soil finding good compost is straight up a bitch.

 

[vonforne]

Tell me about it. I did find a woman who is total living soil in outdoor beds and has a hoop house for worms. A big square U built out of 2x8s and it is native soil which is a clay based soil. She was rated in the top 3. So I go see the hippie girls an hour away......I use about 40 lbs per mix which is about 1 cubic foot. I think with the native soil (1 cuft) I hit around 40 gallons. I am sifting about that or just over it for another 40 gallon mix. Then I will need that again to get what I want for my next run in 10 gallon smart pots. But I might just cycle the 7 gallons faster. My comfrey is doing great and I can harvest a good amount to top dress with for the winter.

 

[gaiusmarius]

there is a trick that you can use to make the worms all end up in one area allowing you to harvest the castings without it being full of worms. i forget how they did it, just you tube ewc production, was pretty clever.

 

[G Noam]

All I can say is, 'Wow'. I had no idea about this stuff. I'm almost overwhelmed enuf to go back to hydro. But I can't with my new perp ops. Perp lets me keep relatively small but yield big. Or big to me anyway. Will have to recycle anyway indoors. But buying castings will work on my scale.

 

[al70]

Recycled Organic Living Soil? Did I win?

I agree that slapping a new label on this age-old practice is a little silly, but what can ya do? If a little re-branding helps to spark more interest in organic methods, I'm all for it.

cheers for that spicysativa.

 

[Greenheart]

With a couple exceptions I found most of the store shelf castings were devoid of life and full of sand. Sure it will work but at home you get to toss in left over fruit or vegetable scrap for the casting recipe. Say for instance peelings from apples, cucumber, bannanas, potato, and citrus fruit. Then you add your crab, kelp, alfalfa, neem, and powdered rock minerals to some peat or your old soil and in 4 months have a supercast that is not only rich in nutrients but life. A person just needs to figuire out how much cast and how often. Build your worm trays to accomodate the cycle. I used rubbermaid totes and it equates out to 2 gallons of cast for each tote. My goal is 24 totes. This will give me 2 gallons of well processed cast every 2 weeks. My current system is 12 totes.

Don't let the terms, or lack of ingredients on hand discourage you. Many things can be sourced free. It does not have to be neem, and gia green whahooti rock dust. If you can't or don't want to source the popular items roll with the time tested thru centuries of farming techniques staples like alfalfa and crushed quarry stonemeal.

*Neem and Crabmeal if available have pest/disease management properties which is why alot of us like them so much.
*Even if you have to order worms it will be much less costly long term to invest the price of a bag of castings or two on them. (walmart has "big reds" aka euro's)

 

[Granger2]

If available in your area, Soil Mender products are good, and their Worm Castings are excellent. All castings. Little round turdlets. Good luck. -granger

 

[Granger2]

I've been gardening for decades, and in the crapload of gardening books I've read and used for reference, incl. cannabis books, they used to always say not to re-use your container mixes because they may be disease ridden. I always found this to be questionable, and never had problems. Cutting thru this long given advice is a slow process. Re-educating people by jumping all up in nare in they shit, slows that process down even more. -granger

 

[blackcat54]

I looked for a list of definitions and couldn't find any.

What does ROLS mean?

Thanks

 

[Chillb]

recycled organic living soil

 

[dank.frank]

If you are in the NE, Worm Power EWC are the best quality I have found, commercially available.



dank.Frank

 

[Payaso]

Yes Granger, I always wondered about that advice... and have reused soil for years with good results, amending it as needed of course. With organic materials and ingredients. Haven't had any pest problems yet that I can't deal with using nature's remedies.

Thankfully, Vonforne and others keep this thread and thinking alive so more can understand that soil is soil and it's a valuable resource indeed.

There's a lot of worm farms in the North Bay Area of Cali... nice to hear there's a good one in the NE dank.frank!