Is this Horsetail(Equisetum)? Replacing pro-tekt with organic Si02

[Dudesome]

I was wondering if this is the horsetail. I am looking to make organic Silica Si02.

I dont like the idea of buying protekt

I have an idea that along with some Diatomaceous Earth powder and grains for aeration along with perlite will provide me with enough Silica in my soil not to worry about adding pro-tekt.

What do you guys think?

 

[SpicySativa]

That does look like a variety of horsetail. Tnlooks a little more "hairy" that the horsetail I see around here, but very similar.

I am also curious about this... I am sold on the benefits of silica, but my new watering system is plumbed straight to the output of my Small Boy filter, so I can't be adding Pro-Tekt every watering.

I have some dried/powdered horsetail, and I plan to mix some into my soil and/or top dress with it. Originally bought it for making horsetail tea PM spray.

 

[indianajones]

@SpicySativa- Diatomaceous earth is a great silicate supplement for soil. I have used it at 5% the total volume of my soil with excellent results. Silicates will make the most solid stems you have ever seen, and they improve vigor a good bit if you have everything dialed.

 

[Dudesome]

Do u use a powdered version of DE? Whats the silicate content? Do u use DE for aeration and water retention also?

 

[indianajones]

Yes, I use powdered DE. I finished my previous bag with the last batch of soil I mixed, so I don't have any lying around to check the %. I don't really use it for aeration and water retention because I have never seen figures to see how it works in that aspect. I have pdfs that tell me the air filled porosity (AFP) of verm, peat, and perlite, but I haven't ever seen one on DE. I use verm for aeration and water retention, perlite for drainage. I shoot for 25% each verm and perlite in my medium.

 

[Dudesome]

Well for soil retention and aeration most folks use a bigger grain of DE. I am struggling to get my hands on any of that stuff here in Nordic europe. Currently talking to suppliers on alibaba and eyeballing amazon and ebay to get my hands on some of that bigger grained DE.
Many here believe that perlite has nothing on DE. DE is superrior in every way.

 

[SpicySativa]

The silica in DE is in a crystaline, not plant-avalailable form (it's a lot like sand or glass).

Here's an interesting (albeit poorly edited) article about silica in organic gardening:

http://plantibalism.com/downloads/SilicaFarming.pdf

 

[rasputin]

DE's best qualities as a soil amendment are water retention and aeration, depending on your soil. For sandy types it's the former, for heavy clay types the latter. I think DE's benefits are kind of overrated as far as soil goes, considering it doesn't do anything particularly well and a lot of other materials outperform it. Good at killing critters, though.

Dudesome, you familiar with AgSil 16H? The horsetails will certainly do the trick but you need to start composting them now if you want to grow using them anytime soon. Chop up your raw material real small and it'll help speed things up. Might want to make an FPE, too.

 

[Dudesome]

Well see I read that a powdered form of DE is a very available form of si02 for plants to use.

as for agsil , how is it different from pro-tekt?

 

[EclipseFour20]

The silica in DE is in a crystaline, not plant-avalailable form (it's a lot like sand or glass).

Here's an interesting (albeit poorly edited) article about silica in organic gardening:

http://plantibalism.com/downloads/SilicaFarming.pdf

Not all DE is CRYSTALINE Silica--rather "food grade"--aka "Fossil Shell Flour" it is AMORPHOUS Silica, and the best to use for horticulture purposes.

From Perma-Guard's Website"--http://www.perma-guard.com/fossil-shell-flour

All Diatomaceous Earth is not the same.

Diatomaceous Earth packaged under our FOSSIL SHELL FLOUR® label comes from an extremely pure fresh water deposit of the diatom Aulacoseira from a deposit created in the Miocene epoch. Why is this diatom so special? Its shell is made of amorphous silica. Its shape and hardness are important to how it works. Its hardness keeps it from dissolving in liquid. The holes along the diatom's wall allow it to absorb moisture, hence its use as an anti-caking agent. Darker colored Diatomaceous Earth often contains an excess of a particular mineral such as iron or a high percentage of clay.

FOSSIL SHELL FLOUR® is almost pure white and consists of 89% ( and sometimes more) Silicon Dioxide plus 28 trace minerals which means more diatom surface area is available. More diatom area means greater absorptive capacity and more improvement in the mixability and flowability of animal feed. FOSSIL SHELL FLOUR® does not swell, does not absorb nutrients and poses no long term hazard when used as an anti-caking agent in your animal's feed.

What is Diatomaceous Earth
Why fresh water vs. salt water Diatomaceous Earth?

Fresh water deposits like ours have a consistent diatom presence. Their fossilized shells have maintained their tubular shape. This shape and strength of the fossil shell is critical to its effectiveness. Our deposit has 89 - 95 percent amorphous silica content. This deposit is also more consistent in its purity of other elements that have settled in it. A fresh water deposit is confined to the run off water of its surrounding environment. A fresh water deposit in the mountains, such as ours, formed when snow was pure and its run off provided the water source these diatoms lived in. Salt water deposits contain a mix of types of diatoms of different shapes. Their fossilized shells are fragile and break easily. This renders them ineffective for our purposes. The salt water deposits are less predictable in their sediments.

What's the difference between amorphous and crystalline silica?

Amorphous silica is silica in its natural occurring state. It is a trace mineral every mammal on the planet needs to live. It becomes crystalline when it is exposed to extreme heat through volcanic activity or commercial manufacturing means. The type of Diatomaceous Earth used in swimming pool, and other, filtration systems is crystalline silica. Crystalline silica is extremely dangerous when inhaled or ingested. It is not biodegradable. Perma-Guard Diatomaceous Earth contains less than one half of 1% of crystalline silica and is considered GRAS (generally regarded as safe).

Perma-Guard FOSSIL SHELL FLOUR® [Pure Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth] has been reviewed and is now listed with the Organic Materials Review Institute.

BTW...the use of ProTekt as a "soil nutrition" is verbotten for those that strictly adhere/follow "Organic Principles"

Cheers!

 

[Weird]

i used food grade de

i use a flower sifter and sift it as a top dress

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

To answer your question, yes that is a horsetail, genus Equisetum. The vegetative form has the side growth like yours, while the sexual form grows only as a central stem with a "cone" on top. It is very high in silica content, which probably evolved as a trait to inhibit herbivores since it's hard on the teeth (like grasses). This makes it useful as nature's Brillo Pads and gave it the common name of scouring rush.

 

[EclipseFour20]

What smarter people than me have written about Silica--

Source: http://www.biology.colostate.edu/files/2012/02/epsmits-22.pdf

Silicon
Silicon (Si) is one of the earth’s most prevalent elements,
comprising more than 25% of the earth’s crust [39]. Si is
mainly available to plants as monosilicic acid, Si(OH)4, at
a typical concentration of 0.1–0.6 mM in soil water [40].
Once absorbed, Si is deposited as amorphous silica (SiO2-
nH2O) throughout the plant, mainly in the cell walls,
where it interacts with pectins and polyphenols, and
enhances cell wall rigidity and strength [41]. Si concentration
in the plant ranges from 0.1 to 15% of dry weight,
depending on the species [42].
....Differences in Si accumulation among species have been
ascribed to differences in the root density of Si transporters,
as well as to distinct mechanisms of Si loading into
the xylem (for a review see [43]).
Although silicon is a major constituent of plants, to date
its essentiality has been proven only in members of the
Equisetaceae (e.g. horsetail, Equisetum arvense) and in
wetland Poaceae (e.g. paddy rice, Oryza sativa) [44,45]
....The most extensively studied beneficial effect of Si on
plant health is its role in reducing plant susceptibility to
fungal diseases [47,48]. Two possible mechanisms of Sienhanced
plant resistance to pathogens have been proposed.
One is that polymerized Si can reinforce the cell
walls by physically inhibiting fungal germ tube penetration
of the epidermis, thereby impeding infections [49].
The other is that Si may act locally as a signal in triggering
natural defence responses in both dicots and monocots,
by stimulating the activity of such enzymes as chitinases,
peroxidases, polyphenol oxidases, and/or by increasing
the production of phenolic compounds, phytoalexins,
antimicrobial compounds and systemic stress signals (salicylic
acid, jasmonic acid and ethylene) [49,50,51]. Silicon
bioactivity has been compared to that of the known
activator/secondary messengers of systemic acquired
resistance (SAR), which can be considered the plant’s
equivalent of an immune system. Si has a similar saturable
effect and can significantly modulate the activity of postelicitation
intracellular signaling systems, including the
mitogen activated protein (MAP) kinases [52]. However,
different from SAR activators, the effect of Si on plant induced
resistance to pathogens vanishes when Si supply
to plants is stopped, even though Si had irreversibly
accumulated [52]. This is because only the soluble form
of Si within plants can induce defence responses, while
the polymerized fraction is almost inert....

Moral of the story: Most effective form of liquid silica (Potassium Silicate) includes Si in the form of monosilicic acid (not organic). Most effective dry form of Si is amorphous silica (Food Grade DE is 80-95% and IS organic).

Cheaters like me use both; ahhh...the advantages being a "fusion farmer": I incorporate the "Best Practices" from ALL disciplines and free to discard things that don't make $en$e.

Cheers!

 

[DabSnob]

Good read Eclipse,
cant agree more on the "fusion farming" use what works best for your garden IMO. Next round im going to add some food grade DE and see what happens; mixed with Fasilitor that would give me amorphous and silicic Si.

 

[Dudesome]

Cheers Eclipse! Most inspiring, m8!

Gotta use both for sure.

 

[Carlos Danger]

I, like rasputin and much of the big outdoor plants , use AgSil16 - potassium silicate. 1/4t/gal offers around 100ppm Si and I believe half that in K. Coot also used Protekt.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Carlos, I too used to used do the same...until I understood a bit more about "plant available silica".

In the soil solution, or liquid phase, Si is present as monosilicic acid (Si(OH)4, referred to as PAS) and polysilicic acid (the polymer of PAS) as well as complexes with organic and inorganic compounds such as Al oxides and hydroxides (Berthlesen et al, 2003). While it is the PAS that is taken up by the plants and has a direct influence on crop growth, the polysilicic acid and inorganic and organic complexes are important sources/sinks that replenish the PAS following crop use. They also have an important and significant effect on the soil properties such as improving soil aggregation and increasing soil water holding capacity as well as increasing the exchange and buffering capacity of the soils (see CEC section) (Berthelsen et al, 2003).

The solubility of Si in the soil is affected by a number of dynamic processes occurring in the soil (see Figure 3 below) including the particle size of the Si fertiliser, the soil pH, organic complexes, presence of Al, Fe and phosphate ions, temperature, exchangeable/dissolution reactions and soil moisture (Berthelsen et al, 2003).


Source, page 24: http://hortcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/agripower_silicon-review.pdf

So...my logic goes like this: I am indoor and growing an annual plant in a grow medium that is used one time (no recycling). The nutrients I add should PRIMARILY service the plant with great efficiency (timely with no excess or waste) and, SECONDLY service the soil.

Therefor, if the Si I use (Potassium Silicate) is not PAS, then it must be a polymer of PAS (great for the soil--with a small bang for the plant). BUT....if the Si I use is of the PAS variety, then I achieve my efficiency goal and do not have to wait for the conversion of the polysilicic acid (polymer of PAS) to monosilicic acid (PAS).

BTW, amendment rates of Fossil Shell Flour to my grow medium is around 6% by volume. Studies have shown 100-500kg/ha of DE can be most beneficial in the field (outdoors).

Cheers!

BTW...does any but me find it odd that many staunch "organic growers" advocate using ProTekt (not organic) as a soil amendment?

 

[SpicySativa]

Potassium silicate is allowed for pest/disease control in organic gardening. And that's primarily why people use it in the first place, as an added measure of protection/prevention.

I guess it's a thin line, but I see no problem with that.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Potassium silicate is allowed for pest/disease control in organic gardening. And that's primarily why people use it in the first place, as an added measure of protection/prevention.

I guess it's a thin line, but I see no problem with that.

lol...thin line...shady line....fuzzy line...."do as I want" line--lol, I do understand the "complication".

But in a technical sense, even though there are more efficient "organic" alternatives to Si, those professing to be "100% organic" but use Potassium Silicate as an "amendment" (not for pest/disease control) are less than "100% Organic".

Me...even though I follow "organic principles" I proudly admit that I am not 100% "organic"; easy to be and say "I am about 90% organic and 10% common sen$e".

Cheers!

 

[DabSnob]

Eclipse,
i believe people use the term "organic" FAR to loosely, to be "organic" the compound must include a carbon atom, many minerals and soil amendments do not carry carbon atoms. so in my eyes if your using minerals and amendments that are not 100% organic you should be using the term Naturally grown instead.