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Organic Nutrients in Coco

W

WeedReefer

New member
Hello. I have been doing a lot of research in preparation for my first grow and I have decided to use coco as my medium and I would like to use organic nutrients. As I am new to this I would like to keep it as simple as possible. I will be hand-watering.

Could anyone give me some recommendations for what nutrients to use? I am considering the Fox Farm or General Organics lines. I have heard the Canna Bio line is a little tricky for coco since it is low on nitrogen. Is their coco-specific line organic? I am guessing it is not.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
 
G

Granger2

Active member
Veteran
I've been growing organically in coco/perlite for a few years. For a trouble free line I would recommend Gen. Org or Botanicare Pure Blend Pro, using the full feed chart with the additives. In coco, I would keep pH of the nute mixes within the 5.8 to 6.1 range. Also get some Epsom Salts, Earth Juice Microblast, and Botanicare Silica Blast to have on hand. Use the Silica Blast in addition to the feed chart with the GO line. BioBizz would probably serve well, but I don't have experience with it in coco. It works very well in soil.

Earth Juice can have stellar results, but is very quirky. In general, go heavier with BioThrive Grow and Bloom [as the chart says], especially in bloom, with GO, and lighter than the chart with Botanicare. With PBP you can go as heavy as the chart during mid to the first part of late bloom. Use the PBP Bloom Soil, rather than regular PBP Bloom. Keep in mind that the PBP line is close, but not 100% organic.

I would also recommend a good EWC ACT every couple of weeks.

Never pour anything on your plants that is chlorinated. My tap is high pH, high alkalinity, high lime. I use EJ pH Down [citric acid] on the water before mixing the nutes, usually taking it down to the high 6's. This converts some of the lime [ Ca, Mg] to more available citrates.

In coco, a flush is beneficial, last week before harvest. Good luck. -granger
 
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indianajones

indianajones

Member
pure blend pro is not organic. pure blend is, but not the pro. liquid karma from botanicare is amazing and a good way to get humics and fulvics. i used liquid karma to pH the water on my non-feeding waterings instead of pH down.

neptune's harvest makes great OMRI listed nutrients. neptune's harvest and a liquid kelp works really well for flowering.

general organics makes a really nice product, ran it side by side with the regular general hydro (h3ad formula) and the results were the same from both products.

i use a pH of 6.3 to 6.5, but i add EWC or other compost(s) to my coco. i had best results doing 25/25/25/25 coco/perlite/vermiculite/compost.

you can zap the chlorine in 5g of water by throwing in a handful of compost. try it.

draw your water, you can smell the chlorine. throw in a handful of compost, stir, no more chlorine smell.
 
indianajones

indianajones

Member
natural does not = organic. ive ran botanicare's pure blend pro in coco, and the results were not as good as general organic, or even general hydroponics for that matter. pure blend pro has a lot of nitrogen and you can tell in the final product.
 
W

WeedReefer

New member
Thanks for the info and advice Granger, greatly appreciated. I have decided to go with the GO line.

Granger2 said:
I would also recommend a good EWC ACT
Click to expand...

Not to sound like a dumbass...but what does ACT mean?

indianajones: how long does the compost chlorine removal trick take to work? Does it work to remove chloramine? I do not think I have chloramine in my water - I checked the 2012 water report, which was the latest one available, and it only listed chlorine but I am will check with my water provider to make sure.

Also, would I need an additional P-K booster during flowering with the GO line?

Thanks again for the replies and info.

 
indianajones

indianajones

Member
ACT= aerated compost tea.

the chlorine trick works instantly but i usually wait ten minutes just for good measure. let your nose be your guide. i don't remember if it worked on chloramine, and i don't have access to the information anymore so i can't check either, sorry. :(

you can always make an ACT and add some guano/kelp if you want to boost p-k. 1 teaspoon guano per gallon and 2 tbsp kelp per gallon are good rates.
 
G

Granger2

Active member
Veteran
Ij and WR,
Yes, when people talk about not needing to adjust pH with organics, that may be true in soil, with their water and their soil, etc. Coco is a different animal. I have had better luck making sure the pH is not too far off the mark in coco. -granger
 
habeeb

habeeb

follow your heart
ICMag Donor
Veteran
for anyone reading.. bio canna does have enough N in it. it's actually very "quick acting" N. bio canna is hard as there is really no Ca / Mg in the bottle. which you will have to provide a source for that then.

I was doing some trials in it and ran into ca/mg problems the first feed, as I am using R/O. you can tell very quick with R/o what's missing in a bottle or not. I knew this going into it, as i use to use it a bit in peat mixes..




well, have fun in coco. I like it alot better then peat.
 
Snow Crash

Snow Crash

Active member
Veteran
My experience with CocOrganics is that the performance is much more on pace with that of traditional soil organics. Hydroponic growth rates are hard to match and coco coir is a beast when it gets dialed. Do not expect hydroponic rates with an organic nutrient source just because you are in coco.

The GO line did not amaze me. It wasn't terrible but it didn't leave me thinking it was the end all be all. I had mixed results with the BioRoot. The BioWeed is fantastic but you need to use it sparsely (1/2 strength) as the cold processing leaves a bit of sodium in the bottle which can be problematic for coco in high levels. The CaMg is a good product, very sweet smelling and probably useful in a tea. The BioMarine stinks like week old fish which is okay, if you're in to that sort of thing... but the growth rates from that product were very good and I would recommend it for Vegging plants. The Grow and Bloom are fine and you can even use up to 2x the Bloom, 30ml per gallon for myself didn't result in any issues. The BioBud was whatever, you can do without but if you're going to give the entire lineup a run for it's money you may as well commit.

I think coco is a great soil amendment for organic grows but that you're better off in soil as it requires less pH balancing for the nutrient program. If you're going organic definitely go all the way and supplement some kind of bacteria or myco in the mix to inoculate the roots and provide an organic pathway for nutrition to reach your roots. Add some Xtreme Gardening Azos and Mykos, or maybe some Great White, and you've got a good looking program to me. A GO Box (full line) retails for $50.00 but I have a line on them for just $25.60 plus tax and shipping. PM me if you're interested and I'll let you know where to grab it from and how to get the discount.
 
W

WeedReefer

New member

Thanks again for the replies everyone. I meant to ask about pH adjustment but you beat me to it.

Snow Crash: Hello and thanks for stopping by! It would be nice if GO was the "end all be all" as you put it, but since I have no experience at all I figured I needed to start somewhere. I definitely appreciate the info regarding the different GO products you provided. I just ordered the GO box yesterday - wish I would have waited until I saw your post! Thanks again anyway!
 
J

Johnny Hash

New member
Snow Crash: Hey whats up man. I live where it's medical, and I'm on my 3rd grow currently, all indoor, all with coco based medium. I've been reading thru this thread, good stuff. I've recently become interested in trying a side by side grow of coco + GH lucas method (which I've had success with), and coco + General Organics. I'm definitely interested in the GO starter box kit you mentioned, but I'm not sure how to PM on here..? Let me know if you still have the line on those... it'd be very much appreciated. I may even have some nutes of equal value that you might want too. Thanks - Johnny
 
Snow Crash

Snow Crash

Active member
Veteran
I posted that just the other day. I couldn't send you a PM so I left the link in your visitor messages. Its important to me that I don't come off as spammy or anything around here.
 
indianajones

indianajones

Member
Snow Crash said:
My experience with CocOrganics is that the performance is much more on pace with that of traditional soil organics. Hydroponic growth rates are hard to match and coco coir is a beast when it gets dialed. Do not expect hydroponic rates with an organic nutrient source just because you are in coco.

The GO line did not amaze me. It wasn't terrible but it didn't leave me thinking it was the end all be all. I had mixed results with the BioRoot. The BioWeed is fantastic but you need to use it sparsely (1/2 strength) as the cold processing leaves a bit of sodium in the bottle which can be problematic for coco in high levels. The CaMg is a good product, very sweet smelling and probably useful in a tea. The BioMarine stinks like week old fish which is okay, if you're in to that sort of thing... but the growth rates from that product were very good and I would recommend it for Vegging plants. The Grow and Bloom are fine and you can even use up to 2x the Bloom, 30ml per gallon for myself didn't result in any issues. The BioBud was whatever, you can do without but if you're going to give the entire lineup a run for it's money you may as well commit.

I think coco is a great soil amendment for organic grows but that you're better off in soil as it requires less pH balancing for the nutrient program. If you're going organic definitely go all the way and supplement some kind of bacteria or myco in the mix to inoculate the roots and provide an organic pathway for nutrition to reach your roots. Add some Xtreme Gardening Azos and Mykos, or maybe some Great White, and you've got a good looking program to me. A GO Box (full line) retails for $50.00 but I have a line on them for just $25.60 plus tax and shipping. PM me if you're interested and I'll let you know where to grab it from and how to get the discount.
Click to expand...


DO NOT BUY GREAT WHITE IT IS JUST A RIDICULOUSLY OVERPRICED REBOTTLE OF THIS PRODUCT

http://fungi.com/product-detail/product/mycogrow-soluble-1-oz.html

literally the EXACT SAME product, just insanely priced from advanced. the CFUs, species, everything is the same!
 
Snow Crash

Snow Crash

Active member
Veteran
indianajones said:
DO NOT BUY GREAT WHITE IT IS JUST A RIDICULOUSLY OVERPRICED REBOTTLE OF THIS PRODUCT

http://fungi.com/product-detail/product/mycogrow-soluble-1-oz.html

literally the EXACT SAME product, just insanely priced from advanced. the CFUs, species, everything is the same!
Click to expand...

Well... Being that I can get 4oz of Great White for $29.95 or 8oz for $50.95... That 1oz bag for $5.95 isn't as "insanely" less expensive as you'd like for us to believe.

Also, I'm not for any one brand. That's just what came to mind... There's Humboldt Myco Madness Soluble 4oz at $16.50, Plant Success Soluble Mycorrhizae at 4oz for $16.95, and RTI Mykos WP Soluble, 12oz for 16.95. Each of those suggestions are less expensive than the one you provided.

Also, Plant Success makes Great White, not Advanced Nutrients. Maybe you're confused with Piranha and just trolling on that AN-Hate wagon?
 
indianajones

indianajones

Member
that's a pretty pointless statement to make since that is just what you consider insane. i consider it insane, you don't.

who cares to argue semantics? not i.

you should also probably notice that mycogrow soluble is both piranha and great white in one product. both of them. one product. bacteria and fungi together. but i left that up to you to figure out, im not the biggest on spoon feeding everything to folks, i leave a certain amount for them to figure out for themselves so the wheat can be separated from the chaff so to speak.

a product could be cheaper, but does it have the same diversity and CFU #s?

i don't particularly care for AN or hate them, im not on any hate wagon for any nute program.

you should be aware of where your money goes though, and i'm all for supporting paul stamets and fungi perfecti. here's paul's ted talks, the guy really is doing something beneficial for the planet with his research.

[youtube]XI5frPV58tY[/youtube]
 
habeeb

habeeb

follow your heart
ICMag Donor
Veteran
honestly.. my opinion is to run salts in coco, or peat with organic..

first growers, I would shake my head running organic in coco, first time grower..



but maybe your destined to do big things.. don't let me stop you if it's what you want. just remember I warned you
 
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