hush grows up! 1000w MH/HPS in 4x4 tent
- Thread starter hush
- Start date
When the A/C thermostat is satisfied, the only thing running is the evaporator fan, which doesn't really draw much current, relatively speaking. Well, that's if the A/C has a thermostat. Most do. I'd just keep it simple, let the A/C act the way it was designed to act.
In a normal interior space, if it gets too cold at night, that's because the thermostat is set too low.
Heck, we have a cheapo GE in our bedroom with several "economizer" settings for time of day & so forth, even a remote like a TV.
For small grows & a lot of other things, a Kill-a-Watt meter is a nifty tool, letting you determine current load & power consumption over time-
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...kill a watt p4400&sprefix=kill+a+watt,aps,219
Several models, depending on how elaborate you want it to be. I have a P4400, works great.
In a normal interior space, if it gets too cold at night, that's because the thermostat is set too low.
Heck, we have a cheapo GE in our bedroom with several "economizer" settings for time of day & so forth, even a remote like a TV.
For small grows & a lot of other things, a Kill-a-Watt meter is a nifty tool, letting you determine current load & power consumption over time-
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...kill a watt p4400&sprefix=kill+a+watt,aps,219
Several models, depending on how elaborate you want it to be. I have a P4400, works great.
I like the idea of putting the AC on a better thermostat, actually, because mine is just a bottom of the line mechanical deal with rotary knobs numbered 1 thru 7. The only time it ever gets too cold is during lights off, so what I really need is a thermostat that will turn OFF at a set temperature, instead of ON. Is there a device that does this? I really should just put it on the light timer, that's all.
This page needs some pictures, don't ya think?
I just bumped the lighting up to the full 1000 watts tonight. I'll probably flip to flowering this weekend if they keep growing like this!
This page needs some pictures, don't ya think?
I just bumped the lighting up to the full 1000 watts tonight. I'll probably flip to flowering this weekend if they keep growing like this!
Bud Buddington
Member
Jhhnn, the AC I have doesn't have a thermostat. It has ON/OFF switch, Cold adjuster knob from 0-10, and High/Low fan switch. So I needed to purchase an external thermostat to control it. I bought the one in the link below and it works like a charm.
http://www.amazon.com/Lux-Heating-Cooling-Programmable-Thermostat/dp/B000E7NYY8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1374754511&sr=8-2&keywords=thermostat+timer[/URL]
http://www.amazon.com/Lux-Heating-Cooling-Programmable-Thermostat/dp/B000E7NYY8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1374754511&sr=8-2&keywords=thermostat+timer[/URL]
FAB 5 - respect! 
The cold adjuster knob is a simple thermostat- it's just not calibrated to numerical values. It's just a matter of using a thermometer & playing with the dial for a day or few to get the setting you want, & to mark it. It may or may not have good repeatability & fairly narrow differential. It just depends.
External thermostatic controllers are just more accurate & convenient.
I've worked on climate control systems of various types & sizes for nearly 30 years, from window units to ones with 10 tons of cooling capacity. Simple is good, when it delivers what you need.
Just sayin', ya know?
The temperature in the tent went up to 83* last night during lights-on, according to my thermometer. That is due to my increasing the wattage up to the full 1000w and not changing any other factors. So, this morning I lowered the AC to its coldest setting (I was already almost there, anyway), and I increased the exhaust fan's speed to 75%. I will keep monitoring this.
I believe I will flip to flowering tomorrow. As long as I can stabilize the temperature, now that the light is going full blast. I don't expect that to be a problem. But right now what I'm wondering is what the ideal time of day would be for the 12/12 settings, because I also have the 2x2 tent in here now, sharing the A/C, but it is on 18/6. So what I'm wondering is if I should try to arrange my 24 hour cycle so that there is always a light on, in order to keep the room from ever getting too cold. Basically what I'm thinking is I have 2 choices:
It seems to me that the second option is my best bet, but the only reason why there's a question surrounding it is that I'm sure my A/C can handle the sum of the wattage all at once, so I wonder if it would be in my best interest to allow there to be a bigger temperature differential between the daytime and nighttime temperatures? Should I want there to be a ~10* temperature swing at night, for the flowering plants? If so, then option 1 definitely. If it's in my best interest to keep things fairly consistent, then option 2. But I honestly don't know what to choose, since I've never had the option before! lol
Anyone?
I believe I will flip to flowering tomorrow. As long as I can stabilize the temperature, now that the light is going full blast. I don't expect that to be a problem. But right now what I'm wondering is what the ideal time of day would be for the 12/12 settings, because I also have the 2x2 tent in here now, sharing the A/C, but it is on 18/6. So what I'm wondering is if I should try to arrange my 24 hour cycle so that there is always a light on, in order to keep the room from ever getting too cold. Basically what I'm thinking is I have 2 choices:
- The 1000w is on from 10pm to 10am, while the 400w is on from 7pm to 1pm. This means for 6 hours, between 1pm and 7pm, there are no HIDs adding heat to the room, but it also means that for 12 hours the AC will be contending with 1400 watts of heat.
- The 1000w is on from 10pm to 10am, while the 400w is on from 7am to 1am. This means there is always a light on, but there is only ever 1400 watts worth for 3 hours in the morning and 3 hours in the evening. Otherwise, the 400w is burning during the daytime, and the 1000w is burning at nighttime.
It seems to me that the second option is my best bet, but the only reason why there's a question surrounding it is that I'm sure my A/C can handle the sum of the wattage all at once, so I wonder if it would be in my best interest to allow there to be a bigger temperature differential between the daytime and nighttime temperatures? Should I want there to be a ~10* temperature swing at night, for the flowering plants? If so, then option 1 definitely. If it's in my best interest to keep things fairly consistent, then option 2. But I honestly don't know what to choose, since I've never had the option before! lol
Anyone?
A
Alone
I would def vent your hood's hot air out of the room so the a/c doesnt have to compete with all that heat that stays in the room.
You want the day/night temp swing to be no more than a 10* difference.
The 400w light is only on for 6 hours a day?
You want the day/night temp swing to be no more than a 10* difference.
The 400w light is only on for 6 hours a day?
No, the 400 is on for 18 hours a day.
So right now, by going with option 2 there will never really be a temperature swing greater than probably 5-6 degrees. The idea of venting the hood to the outside has occurred to me, but it's not something I can do easily, or right away. This room is all concrete block, and no attic, so I have to knock 2 six inch holes through it in order to have a closed loop for cooling the hood.
The AC is doing the trick for now. It even cycles on and off, so it's not like it's running all the time either. This is a semi sealed room, and the plan is to make it air tight and fully sealed eventually. Just gotta make it through a harvest or two in order to get the funds.
Ultimately, though, I do plan on having a closed loop for the 1000w, and the 400w will be replaced by LEDs. Some day.
So right now, by going with option 2 there will never really be a temperature swing greater than probably 5-6 degrees. The idea of venting the hood to the outside has occurred to me, but it's not something I can do easily, or right away. This room is all concrete block, and no attic, so I have to knock 2 six inch holes through it in order to have a closed loop for cooling the hood.
The AC is doing the trick for now. It even cycles on and off, so it's not like it's running all the time either. This is a semi sealed room, and the plan is to make it air tight and fully sealed eventually. Just gotta make it through a harvest or two in order to get the funds.
Ultimately, though, I do plan on having a closed loop for the 1000w, and the 400w will be replaced by LEDs. Some day.
Apache Kush
Member
Can you take a picture of the AC unit? Thx
I now know I want a AC but have no idea where to go. I think the hydro store ones are too expensive and I belive someone mention getting one at a Wallmart for around 150 dollars. I think I asked the price already but what brand, what price, did you guys do for a/c ? ?
I now know I want a AC but have no idea where to go. I think the hydro store ones are too expensive and I belive someone mention getting one at a Wallmart for around 150 dollars. I think I asked the price already but what brand, what price, did you guys do for a/c ? ?
I'll post a picture of it later today. Yeah, the hydro store ones are portable units with the dual hose setup. I had heard too many stories about how inefficient they are, and I have a window in my grow room, so I went with a window unit from Walmart. I don't have to worry about smell leaking out because I'm running a grow tent inside of this room, and the air circulating through the tent is being scrubbed on its way out. Window AC units are actually very efficient, so the cheap one I got is very much doing the job, at only 5050 btu.
A
Alone
Remeber too that most a/c's will allow alot of light in through the air grate. If you can, try and make sure that the one you buy doesnt allow light in through it. Or else you'll need a tent or a seperation box or wall. Or something to block the light from streaming in while the girls are sleeping. My Wal-Fart a/c does this. $125 bucks.
Its a super PITA.
You can also unscrew/take the cover off, and cover the white styrofoam inside the a/c with duct tape. This works great.
Your right about the portable a/c units. LOL They freakin put out just as much heat as they cool off. And they are NOISY AS HELL!
Shake a whole apt building when its on. I got 1 along tome ago for 600 dollars and just left it in the basment of the apt building when I moved. It sucked that bad that I wouldnt scam someone else by selling it. Its garbage. A total waste.
Its a super PITA.
You can also unscrew/take the cover off, and cover the white styrofoam inside the a/c with duct tape. This works great.
Your right about the portable a/c units. LOL They freakin put out just as much heat as they cool off. And they are NOISY AS HELL!
Shake a whole apt building when its on. I got 1 along tome ago for 600 dollars and just left it in the basment of the apt building when I moved. It sucked that bad that I wouldnt scam someone else by selling it. Its garbage. A total waste.
Apache Kush
Member
Ok thanks I remeber now, it was you with the window mount Walmart one ok. Very helpfull post.
Thats great that the tent air is scrubbed so clean and odor free.
I would not want to vent outside my house but it might be ok. Besides a carbon scrubber; I was looking into ozone generators cause there only around 150-200 and give peice of mind. Also, have you seen the ''ONA'' air purfiying gels and misters for piece of mind...
Maybe, Im over stealthy and parionoid here in AZ but it sounds like having a closed system like a tent helps the carbon do its job better than a open room grow like my friends. He doesnt even have a scrubber, dumb ass keeps buying cars instead of new tech and toys for his huge ass grow. Dumb fuck I keep mumbling to myself lmao.
-cheers
Thats great that the tent air is scrubbed so clean and odor free.
I would not want to vent outside my house but it might be ok. Besides a carbon scrubber; I was looking into ozone generators cause there only around 150-200 and give peice of mind. Also, have you seen the ''ONA'' air purfiying gels and misters for piece of mind...
Maybe, Im over stealthy and parionoid here in AZ but it sounds like having a closed system like a tent helps the carbon do its job better than a open room grow like my friends. He doesnt even have a scrubber, dumb ass keeps buying cars instead of new tech and toys for his huge ass grow. Dumb fuck I keep mumbling to myself lmao.
-cheers
I think hush's setup is optimal in terms of stealth & light control. Smart & effective w/o being overly elaborate.
Poor security growers aren't just begging to be busted, they're a threat to all the people around them. Smart narcs can be patient once they've identified a grow-op. They can bust it any time they want- it's not like it's going away, so they'll follow the comings & goings, document it all in their notes, computers & memories. They gather intelligence on the local cannabis community for future reference. It's particularly effective in smaller cities & rural areas. Associates get tagged, kinda like chipped pets.
For sure, stealth is my primary motivator. Thanks for the words of encouragement, Jhhnn! Yeah, its very important, in my scenario, to turn off the light in the tent before I open it up. Especially now that the light is on when it's dark outside, at night, because otherwise blinding orange light would bleed through the A/C unit. So I always turn the light off before opening the tent (unless just taking pictures, in which case I unzip it enough to push my upper torso in there, and light doesn't escape this way). I have a regular overhead fluorescent shop light in this room, and when that is on, even it bleeds through the A/C unit. So I certainly wouldn't use a window unit unless I was going to take care of the stealth issue, or unless using a tent, like I am.
I took a picture for you, Apache:
It's the bottom of the line, cheapest A/C unit they sell at Walmart. Made by GE. 5050 btu's. It was like $125 or so. Very satisfied with it, for my purposes. I will probably upgrade to an 8000 btu unit eventually, though, so that it could better handle running my 400 watter at the same time as running the 1000. Right now I have the light cycles between the two tents offset so that the A/C doesn't have to work too hard ever. But eventually I would like to not have to worry about that, lol.
I took a picture for you, Apache:
It's the bottom of the line, cheapest A/C unit they sell at Walmart. Made by GE. 5050 btu's. It was like $125 or so. Very satisfied with it, for my purposes. I will probably upgrade to an 8000 btu unit eventually, though, so that it could better handle running my 400 watter at the same time as running the 1000. Right now I have the light cycles between the two tents offset so that the A/C doesn't have to work too hard ever. But eventually I would like to not have to worry about that, lol.
The girls are about to go to sleep for their second 12 hour long night, and I thought I would snap a few pictures while I had a chance. I also pushed the buckets a little closer together so that the canopies touch each other a little better. It also freed up some space around the perimeter of the garden so that the plants aren't brushing up against the walls so much. Anyway, here we are:
Yep. Low end A/C units use white foam as the divider between inside air & outside air, and it lets a lot of light through. Higher end units often use metal or rigid plastic which stops light. None of them are designed to be totally light or air tight inside to outside, although any of them can be vastly improved with partial dis-assembly & application of suitable materials.
I want to put up this handy online conversion site as a reference keeper for members-
http://www.onlineconversion.com/
Converting watts to btu's, it's apparent that the 5000 btu unit is entirely adequate for a 1000W light, which really creates ~1100 watts of energy. It might even keep up with 1400 watts of lighting if ambient outside temp is well below the setpoint, and if the room isn't insulated much at all, like at night during cool or cold weather.
You're probably going to get some unavoidable temp rise when both lights are on, so you probably want that to occur when heat loss from the room is greatest, when outside temps are lowest. My own experience with other Mandala strains is that they live up to their heat resistant billing very well, so it's not as big a deal as you might think.
Your girls are looking great. Be prepared for explosive stretch into flowering. That's strain dependent, for sure, but even non-stretchy varieties will do it to some degree when switching to 12/12 under a 1000W bulb. They love it. They'll be thirsty, too.
Wishing you the best!
You aren't kidding about the thirst! Already, the volume of water that the buckets consume before overflowing has increased by about 300%!! I think I might have to replace my 35 gal reservoir with a 70 gallon one!
Anyway, I wanted to update this thread, for my own future reference, on the temperature information:
Now, after re-programming my timers, I can safely say that the warmest it ever gets in the 1000w tent, at the canopy level, is 80 degrees. It only gets this warm during the last 3 hours of the 12-hr light cycle, when the 400w light is on before the 1000 shuts off. It also goes up to 79 degrees during the first 3 hours of the light cycle, before the 400 shuts off. What this tells me is that the A/C unit is really not capable of properly keeping this room cool during the times when 1400 watts are burning.
When the 400 is off, for 6 hours, right in the middle of the 1000's light cycle, the temperature under the 1000 is a nice, steady 75 degrees. When the 1000 is off, the temp drops down to 67 degrees in there. That's an 8 degree differential from the mid-day temps, but it's a 13 degree differential from the peak temperatures. This data all seems to suggest that I cannot run the 400w on an 18/6 light cycle in the same room as the 1000w.
So what it means is that I either need to upgrade the A/C unit, or I have to make it so that I only ever run 12/12 light cycles in here. In that case, I would run the 400w during the day, and the 1000w during the night. Oh yeah, I should also mention here that the 400 is actually dialed down to 300 watts at the moment, so yeah, it would only get worse once the 400 is running full blast.
I think immediately this isn't so much of a concern, because, like Jhhnn said above, Mandala genetics are very heat resistant. But I won't always be growing Sadhu in here. In fact, I want to grow more Lemon Skunk next! That shit was like candy! So I need to rush through the 18/6 light cycle I've currently got going on in the small tent, and then I can flip it to 12/12 and all will be right in the world... until I will ultimately need to upgrade the A/C, because I just don't want to have to worry about it.
I knew I would be upgrading the A/C the moment I was buying it, but I still knew it would work for me in the short-term. And it is. I just need to deal with these logistics in the meantime, that's all.
Anyway, I wanted to update this thread, for my own future reference, on the temperature information:
Now, after re-programming my timers, I can safely say that the warmest it ever gets in the 1000w tent, at the canopy level, is 80 degrees. It only gets this warm during the last 3 hours of the 12-hr light cycle, when the 400w light is on before the 1000 shuts off. It also goes up to 79 degrees during the first 3 hours of the light cycle, before the 400 shuts off. What this tells me is that the A/C unit is really not capable of properly keeping this room cool during the times when 1400 watts are burning.
When the 400 is off, for 6 hours, right in the middle of the 1000's light cycle, the temperature under the 1000 is a nice, steady 75 degrees. When the 1000 is off, the temp drops down to 67 degrees in there. That's an 8 degree differential from the mid-day temps, but it's a 13 degree differential from the peak temperatures. This data all seems to suggest that I cannot run the 400w on an 18/6 light cycle in the same room as the 1000w.
So what it means is that I either need to upgrade the A/C unit, or I have to make it so that I only ever run 12/12 light cycles in here. In that case, I would run the 400w during the day, and the 1000w during the night. Oh yeah, I should also mention here that the 400 is actually dialed down to 300 watts at the moment, so yeah, it would only get worse once the 400 is running full blast.
I think immediately this isn't so much of a concern, because, like Jhhnn said above, Mandala genetics are very heat resistant. But I won't always be growing Sadhu in here. In fact, I want to grow more Lemon Skunk next! That shit was like candy! So I need to rush through the 18/6 light cycle I've currently got going on in the small tent, and then I can flip it to 12/12 and all will be right in the world... until I will ultimately need to upgrade the A/C, because I just don't want to have to worry about it.
I knew I would be upgrading the A/C the moment I was buying it, but I still knew it would work for me in the short-term. And it is. I just need to deal with these logistics in the meantime, that's all.
I realize that some indoor strains are rather delicate flowers, but any strain rated for outdoor cultivation has to be able to withstand temps well up into the 90's Fahrenheit, even past 100F. Otherwise, outdoor cultivation would be impossible in most parts of the world. It's just an issue of giving them enough water.
I'm seeing that currently, with light on temps up into the 90's some days. Both white lavender & NLxSK thrive along side Rishi Kush & Satori. The setup will get completely reworked after the first of the year, for a lot of reasons, but high temps at relatively low humidity haven't been a problem at all.
As an aside, my limited experience with autoflowers is that they grow & flower ecstatically w/ lots of warmth & light.
There's some point of diminished returns, I'm sure, but it's probably higher than many think it is.
I'm seeing that currently, with light on temps up into the 90's some days. Both white lavender & NLxSK thrive along side Rishi Kush & Satori. The setup will get completely reworked after the first of the year, for a lot of reasons, but high temps at relatively low humidity haven't been a problem at all.
As an aside, my limited experience with autoflowers is that they grow & flower ecstatically w/ lots of warmth & light.
There's some point of diminished returns, I'm sure, but it's probably higher than many think it is.
