5K, 6K, or 7K Attic Stadium with 99 Plant Restriction

[Skyrancher]

This is my first indoor grow and first thread. Though I’ve grown outdoor for many years, I’ve found moving indoor to be a very different and complex. I’ve returned again and again to ICMag for information, ideas, and help, so I’d like add my thanks here.

Thanks to ICMag and its members for your journals, discussions, and debates. Your shared experience and knowledge has given me the confidence and valuable information needed to plan this setup. Contributors, your posts have helped plan every aspect of my room. Thank you so much!!!

Seems a stadium grow best fits the narrow attic space I have to grow in. Tell me your ideas if your experience points to better use of the space. I plan to build a sealed room within the attic space. I could use some help to finalize my room length and number of lights.

Northern Farmer (NFR) mentioned increasing his room size and veg time because he felt pressured to grow fewer plants by changing laws. Local law has me in a similar situation, so I’m considering the effects of setup on veg times, cost, and yield.

I could use your help choosing a room setup.

Here are the conditions.

24’ long x 21.5’ width attic space
Maximum 18’ long grow room to be built within the attic
6.5’ to 7’ maximum grow room width due to height restrictions
7.5’ height at peak, 5.75’ height 3.5’ from center
5 to 7 - 1K vertical bare bulbs, sealed, mini-split, dehuey, CO2
Stadium, 3 shelves per side, 10” wide drained shelves with 14” rise
Soil with drip system in 2 or 3 gallon pots - 8” width pots
16 plants per shelf for a total of 96 plants
99 plant maximum, local legal setup
Room will be used to veg and flower

5 – 1K lights with 22” between lights, 20” from ends (thanks to NFR)
10.6’ long room
96 - 8” wide pots fill 6 shelves with no space between pots
67 watts per sq ft assuming 7’ width

6 – 1K lights with same spacing as above
12.5’ long room
96 - 8” wide pots fill 6 shelves with 1.5” spacing between pots
68 watts per sq ft

7 – 1K lights with same spacing as above
14.3’ long room
96 - 8” wide pots fill 6 shelves with 2.75” spacing between pots
70 watts per sq ft

My first thought is to choose the smallest room and minimize cost with shorter veg times and lower yields, but I’d like to hear your opinion and advice.

Is it cost effective to run extra lights, CO2, and AC in exchange for extra space between plants, longer veg time, and increased yield? Which setup do you think is the most cost effective?

How much difference do a couple inches between pots make?

With your choice of setups, how long do you suggest I should veg, using a strain that finishes in 8 weeks?

Should I use 2 or 3 gallon pots for the veg time you suggest?

Other ideas for an attic setup that will more efficiently use the space?

Thanks for your input

Rancher

 

[GMax]

all options seem decent... just depends on if you wanna harvest 5k 6k or 7k worth of bud...

there is no definitive answer to give on how long to veg... every plant is different.. some stretch more some stretch less... and if your strain also bushes out, that is how you decide if the space between pots is necessary.. if it bushes out, then you wanna give them enough room to reach full potential, with the least wasted light possible... and add/subtract veg time to fit your situation... if your strain grows like a pole, the there is no space between pots needed..

hope this helps a little... welcome to IC

 

[Skyrancher]

Haven't done much research on strains yet, but still have months until the build starts. Choosing a couple good strains will be more important than I thought.

Yes, it does help.

After reading some of F45 v3.0 "Ricky's Dope Farm", I'll have to consider growing larger plants in lower numbers and adding a veg room. Not sure my space will fit that type of grow, but that's way I'm here. To learn.

Thanks Max

 

[Shcrews]

now i am not 100% sure on this but your room seems a bit narrow to be running 1K's. I had a 8ft wide stadium and still the plants got a bit close to the bulbs. then again i am known to over-veg. Maybe 600W lights would serve you better...

as for your question, is it really a question? come on man, use as many lights as you can possibly fit and keep cool. 98 is not much of a restriction anyway, with that many plants you wont have to veg them for very long. of course that depends on the strain, and i find that stretchy ones are best for vert and stadiums.

Longer veg time and fewer plants, shorter veg time and more plants, bigger or smaller, dont worry about these choices until you have completed your first couple cycles indoors. your original plan seems solid.

as Freds likes to say, there's a million ways to skin a cat. The important thing is not to build the perfect room right away, but start with a solid foundation and gradually dial in your room (and genetics) and make it perfect


do you have access to clones? i can suggest a few strains. good luck, keep us posted, sounds like a cool project

 

[DHF]

now i am not 100% sure on this but your room seems a bit narrow to be running 1K's. I had a 8ft wide stadium and still the plants got a bit close to the bulbs. then again i am known to over-veg. Maybe 600W lights would serve you better...

as for your question, is it really a question? come on man, use as many lights as you can possibly fit and keep cool. 98 is not much of a restriction anyway, with that many plants you wont have to veg them for very long. of course that depends on the strain, and i find that stretchy ones are best for vert and stadiums.

Longer veg time and fewer plants, shorter veg time and more plants, bigger or smaller, dont worry about these choices until you have completed your first couple cycles indoors. your original plan seems solid.

as Freds likes to say, there's a million ways to skin a cat. The important thing is not to build the perfect room right away, but start with a solid foundation and gradually dial in your room (and genetics) and make it perfect


do you have access to clones? i can suggest a few strains. good luck, keep us posted, sounds like a cool project

Yeah Shcrews Bro , many ways ta skin a mule and with plant numbers right under 99 I`m sure........

Something can be designed for optimum sideways canopy without the bottom plants growin up into the upper tiered plant`s "lumen exposure/plant absorption" zone , so the bottoms of the plants can get as much light as the uppers.......and....

600`s are your friend since with proper watts per sq ft and air exchange allows the plants to get closer to the lights without bleachin or scorchin......

If the room`s will be narrower , build shelves up the walls..all 4 of em and then the only variable is to figure out when to flip so each plant`s "tops" will be right below the next shelves plants "bottoms".....and....

Put shelves on all 4 walls with a small door/entry way on 1 end and a wall banger a/c up high at the other end......Put exhaust/scrubber combo`s directly above the entry with fresh air intake at the bottom of the wall the a/c`s mounted into for constant circulation "above and below" but never "on " the plants.....

You will haveta hack out the backs of the plants for proper airflow "through" the plants with proper lumen penetration so the fronts of the plants can swell accordingly after end of stretch.....just remember.....

Takes time and runs under yer belt to develop consistent dialed results , so learn your strains with each run , how much they stretch WHEN yas flip em to know where they`ll end up by end of stretch , and you`re on your way to developing that perfect sideways canopy for optimum return on investment......and lastly....

Insulate to fuck and back , or environment will be all but impossible to control in an attic setting guaranteed even when more cash is spent to control it.....anyways....

Holler if we can help , welcome and good luck.....

Peace.....DHF.....

 

[Skyrancher]

Shcrews...

Good to hear that you ran a successful 8’ wide room. I have been concerned about expanding room width, knowing that the outside plants would receive decreased light. What type of room do you run now and why did you switch from the stadium? I am still considering other room designs.

The width and 1K lights are based on Northern Farmer’s room (NFR is his new name), which a few other members have used. He had short veg times.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=57927

I could widen the room to 8’, but the height at 4’ from the center of the room is down to 5’2”. The slope of the ceiling would allow the plants some room to lean in and grow upward. After reading your post, I’ve been considering a 50 veg, 50 flower perpetual 2 room setup, with longer veg times and a 4 shelve flower room. That would allow a wider room.

I have multiple clone sources and would very much appreciate strain suggestions. I’m hoping to go with older pure strains and get away from the highly inbred cross stains. Not so sure I’ll get that from the local clubs, so I may start from seed and clone myself?

You are right about me wanting to build the perfect room. I’ll try to let that go. I do want to build the right type of room though. Think this is it??

 

[Skyrancher]

DHF...

I’ve concentrated my design on 1K lights and haven’t given 600w light as much though. I understand they give more even coverage in addition to your points.

“...then the only variable is to figure out when to flip so each plant’s "tops" will be right below the next shelves plants "bottoms"

This is a very specific and helpful point that I needed. Thank you

“Put shelves on all 4 walls with a small door/entry way on 1 end and a wall banger a/c up high at the other end......Put exhaust/scrubber combo`s directly above the entry with fresh air intake at the bottom of the wall the a/c`s mounted into for constant circulation "above and below" but never "on " the plants.....”

To keep costs down and avoid installing a mini-split, I would rather go with this type of environmental system. What I don’t understand is how do I control consistent temperature and humidity, while constantly circulating the air? Also, from what I’ve heard, it is important to have airflow “ON” the plant to increase stem strength and diameter. Why should circulation be “never on the plant”?

Insulating the ceiling and walls with thermal barrier, R-30, and insulated panels. Anything else I should do? Building the room with plywood and 1”+ wall board. You have another way to build the room for better insulation?

I’m sure I’ll be holler’n more than a couple times.

Thanks for the help

 

[Skyrancher]

Here's what I came up with based on your input.

Added a 4.5' x 12' T5 veg room
6-1K HPS flower room widened and lengthened to 8'x 12.5'
Areas open for drying, trimming, and storage

Will start with this plan and dial from there
Perpetual grow with 2 rooms
Clone and veg 50 plants for 4 - 6 weeks in 1 to 2 gallon pots
Flower 50 plants in 3 to 5 gallon pots for 8 weeks
Not sure on pot sizes, veg or flower times, but will dial them in with time

Appreciate the help guys...thank you

 

[Skyrancher]

600`s are your friend since with proper watts per sq ft and air exchange allows the plants to get closer to the lights without bleachin or scorchin......

With a 8' x 12 flower room, what are the best for lighting space using 600w bulbs? 8 bulbs would be needed to give 50w per sq ft.

They could be run straight now the middle in a stadium of course.

What are the other ways to skin the cat that fit the attic space??

 

[Shcrews]

Here's what I came up with based on your input.

Added a 4.5' x 12' T5 veg room
6-1K HPS flower room widened and lengthened to 8'x 12.5'
Areas open for drying, trimming, and storage

Will start with this plan and dial from there
Perpetual grow with 2 rooms
Clone and veg 50 plants for 4 - 6 weeks in 1 to 2 gallon pots
Flower 50 plants in 3 to 5 gallon pots for 8 weeks
Not sure on pot sizes, veg or flower times, but will dial them in with time

Appreciate the help guys...thank you

sounds like a good plan. Veg time is totally strain dependent, and should be minimal assuming you get a nice stretchy strain. when growing vert you gotta know your genetics. i recommend Blue Dream or Jack Herer as both strains are high yielders, stretchy, and easy to find in clone form. however there are far more exotic flavors that i'm sure would perform just as well in a stadium.

myself and a couple other vert growers on here have had great success with USD (ultimate strawberry diesel). the stretch is great and heavy yields, only downside is 11 week flowering time. i suggest you find something quicker. and fyi i found that most kushes perform better in horizontal than vertical grows.

its sounds like your room will fill the space very well. I recently switched from vertical growing back to horizontal simply because it is a bit easier for me to use flood tables than design multiple-tier drip systems. since you do not have enough vertical space to consider flood tables, i think your stadium plan is the best bet to maximize 5-6 ft of vertical space.

12 ft long stadium will probably want 5 1k's or 8 600's spaced evenly. but i think ya know that

 

[DHF]

Environmental control means waaaay more than proper 50 watts per sq ft , so whatever it takes to do so in an attic , then that`s the "X" factor.....

Run botanicare "silicablast" @5 ml per gal throughout the life of the grow for stemwall strength and overall plant vigor , and forget about blowin air ON the plants instead of around em.......and why ?.....

Blowin directly on the plants causes increased transpiration and excess nutrient uptake that in turn shuts the plants down from eating , and then stored nutes ensue causing ph to drop and ppms to soar with lockouts and imbalances right around the corner........anyways....

Keep askin questions and we`ll figure this out Bro....Glad Shcrews is back around to help......been peepin the Gold Country OD setup and hopin fer bumper crops my buddy........

Peace....DHF..........

 

[Skyrancher]

sounds like a good plan. Veg time is totally strain dependent, and should be minimal assuming you get a nice stretchy strain. when growing vert you gotta know your genetics. i recommend Blue Dream or Jack Herer as both strains are high yielders, stretchy, and easy to find in clone form. however there are far more exotic flavors that i'm sure would perform just as well in a stadium.

I've seen both of these strains at the clubs, though not consistenty. Strains are going to be a challenge for me it seems. A friend has GS Cookies that have been a very consistent producer, but not very stretchy. I'll try to get my hands on your suggestions to grow mothers.

[/quote]12 ft long stadium will probably want 5 1k's or 8 600's spaced evenly. but i think ya know that[/quote]

I'm heading toward 8 600's for more over lapping light and more even coverage. Talked to the Gavita boys today at the Max Yield Expo about their reflector use in Holland. Their system is based on overlapping light for better coverage and PAR. They helped point me this way, but your advice (and DHF...Fred??) made the decision feel solid. No...I'm not going with Gavita...staying vertical

Walked away from the Expo with a couple bags of give aways. SOme people needed shopping carts with the amount of stuff they had. Generous people at the Expo.

Learned about some products, but still have questions about equipment. Lots to learn still.

 

[Skyrancher]

Environmental control means waaaay more than proper 50 watts per sq ft , so whatever it takes to do so in an attic , then that`s the "X" factor.....

Run botanicare "silicablast" @5 ml per gal throughout the life of the grow for stemwall strength and overall plant vigor , and forget about blowin air ON the plants instead of around em.......and why ?.....

Blowin directly on the plants causes increased transpiration and excess nutrient uptake that in turn shuts the plants down from eating , and then stored nutes ensue causing ph to drop and ppms to soar with lockouts and imbalances right around the corner........anyways....

Like the "silicablast" info. Talked to a Humbolt guy at Max Yield Expo today. He explained how Super Cropping is used to increase stem strength. What is your opinion of Super Cropping?

Needed to hear the explaination of why to keep air flow off the plants. Highly welcome info!! These are things I never think about outdoor. Indoor is more complex than I imagined starting this.

The room has a couple things set...8'x12', 8-600w lights, stadium, electrical usage. On to environmental control. The Santa Cruz mountains have wide swings in temperature and humidity, so I was leaning toward a sealed setup for tight regulation of temp, RH, and CO2 levels, But DHF is suggesting a vented room, which I like. But will it work here?

If I go with a vented room, how do I control these temp and RH? I'm imagining conditioned air is blown outside, though so is hot air. Temp and humidity would be hard to control in summer(high temp, low humidity) and winter (low temps, high humidity). What is the reality of the situation with a vented room?

If I went with a vented room, I would use the first floor as a lung room. It is used for storage and has few obstructions. Unable to vent or draw air from outside for stealth. There is passive ventulation into the attic from the outside so CO2 levels should stay close to normal.

Going with a vented room be much easier to setup, but would it be harder to control temp and RH, assuming I have AC (exhausting into the unused attic) and dehuey?

Which way to go? Sealed or vented?

Then there is the problem of environmental control of the new 4'x12' veg room. I'm considering actively exchanging air from the flower room into the veg room, and back into the flower room. The 2 rooms are end to end, sharing a 3 foot wide wall that could be used to transfer air. I would use a 6" fan to duct air from the far end of the flower room to the far end of the veg room, then use a second 6" fan at the shared wall to push air from veg to flower room, providing air flow across both rooms. Hope I'm painting a clear enough picture?

I would post the drawing of the room, but can't figure out how to post pictures. Copy and paste does nothing. Seems I have to post them on another site, then link to them.

 

[DHF]

I actually suggested runnin a sealed room , but spoke of how both setups could work if yas had access to a "lung area" , but now that I see you do have access to 1 then I categorically suggest air exchange twice per min , and all that hasta occur for perfect environment 24/7 is to condition , humidify and or when the time comes to dehumidify the lung room for late flower......and....

If you`re runnin 2 bloom rooms perpetual where 1`s finishing and needs lower RH while the 1 still in stretch mode needs 70% RH till fully in swellage mode , all yas gotta do is ......

Set up separate smaller dehuey`s in each bloom room for insurance in late flower if RH rises too much during lights off , but major air exchange also helps to rid the rooms of excess RH as well , so putting dampers on each room for late flower and intake from another source "preferably" outside fresh air is your friend as well.....or....

Spend the money , seal the rooms , and get all the bells and whistles it takes to humidify/dehumidify , control temps and CO2 concentrations......just remember Bro.....

Indoor the plants are only gonna be as good as you allow em to be by way of "perfect environment and proper watts per sq ft" IME , and these are your only choices at doin it right......

Bein in an attic is ALREADY gonna be a "limiting factor" , and the only wayta fix it is insulate , insulate , and insulate some more.....and then you STILL haveta control ambient temps during lights on AND off within a 10 degree variable for dialed results.....

Cover everything that ain`t green in reflectix/orca/prodex that you can afford.....Run 70% RH till end of stretch , and as low below 50% as possible till end of cycle , and lastly....

However yas choose to do these things and stay within your budget , remember that fortune favors the prepared mind , and as much research on sealed rooms and one`s with air exchange will help yas understand what you`re up against for a solid shot at a dialed setup indoors......

My 2 cents from all those yrs outside and inside.....Holler if I can help and.....almost forgot about the veg area question.....You can pull conditioned high RH air from the lung room that the plants need and exhaust it out into the attic......instead of linking rooms , you can either exhaust out the attic separately or back to the lung room.,,,,.whichever is more advantageous to each rooms needs.....anyways.....

Good luck....DHF.........

 

[Shcrews]

Wow another 831 vert guy, join the club! PM me, i may be able to help with the strain issue

 

[TheBatCave]

nice

 

[Skyrancher]

If you`re runnin 2 bloom rooms perpetual...

Spend the money , seal the rooms , and get all the bells and whistles it takes to humidify/dehumidify , control temps and CO2 concentrations...

...within a 10 degree variable for dialed results.....

...almost forgot about the veg area question.....You can pull conditioned high RH air from the lung room that the plants need and exhaust it out into the attic

I miss understood what perpetual grow means. I thought it meant having plants in veg and flower at the same time. Planning to have 1 flower room and 1 veg room only.

Going with a sealed bloom and a vented veg room. I'm concerned that I won't be able to control the veg room well enough, but if not able to control temp and RH, while maintaining airflow, I will seal it up at a later date.

Question...I've read that it is important to have lower temperatures with lights off in the bloom room....example.....75 degrees lights on....65 degrees lights off. How important is this??

 

[Skyrancher]

Just figured out what DHF stands for....loving the Dead over here too...have about 100 shows and always happy to share !!

 

[Skyrancher]

Wow another 831 vert guy, join the club! PM me, i may be able to help with the strain issue

Love these mountains so much!! Would like to PM, but seems have to wait until I have 50 posts. Not planning to get the build going until the outdoor comes in, so I have lots of time. Not sure if you can PM me??

Looked at some of your journals. Very nice !! I learned a lot just looking at the pics. There are so many details I get from from experienced people here. Thank you Shcrews !!

 

[DHF]

WTF`s up with this server removing BOTH posts ?......anyways....Skyrancher.......

Been DedHedFred for a minute and have seen em many times over the yrs......

Holler if I can help.....DHF.....