Broad Mites?

[SooperSmurph]

Super aggressive neem (.7g Azadirachtin / gallon of spray) while feeding Aspirin and Silica seems to be working for me, haven't had a dead node in 2 months, mutant leaves are slowly disappearing from the garden.

Never give up, never surrender, we are Rome, fighting an invasion of Broadmibarians, we must show no mercy to those who wish to destroy that which we have built!

 

[talktosamson]

Brewing a batch of OGBIOWAR folier right now. Supposed to kill their asses dead. I have one plant that they seem to like persistently, so we will see if this does it. Avid didn't do it, heat treatment killed them 90% off, but eventually they popped up on my purple Cadillac mom some how. Not hard or aggressively, but im seeing the early signs. Heat treatment plus this biowar tea is my last step before throw away and tear down.

 

[SooperSmurph]

Brewing a batch of OGBIOWAR folier right now. Supposed to kill their asses dead. I have one plant that they seem to like persistently, so we will see if this does it. Avid didn't do it, heat treatment killed them 90% off, but eventually they popped up on my purple Cadillac mom some how. Not hard or aggressively, but im seeing the early signs. Heat treatment plus this biowar tea is my last step before throw away and tear down.

Make sure to treat the room, your clothes, etc, if you've done any pruning lately, move the waste as far away from your grow as possible, remove all possible sources for re-infection, and treat things you wouldn't think of as mediums for infections, walls, lights, ducts, etc.

The microscopic size of these bastards is what makes them so hard to deal with, imo, we can never be sure of killing them because they can be hiding in spaces too small for us to comprehend properly.

Also, anyone have ppm data on the "Triple Action Neem" sold by southern ag?

 

[RetroGrow]

Brewing a batch of OGBIOWAR folier right now. Supposed to kill their asses dead. I have one plant that they seem to like persistently, so we will see if this does it. Avid didn't do it, heat treatment killed them 90% off, but eventually they popped up on my purple Cadillac mom some how. Not hard or aggressively, but im seeing the early signs. Heat treatment plus this biowar tea is my last step before throw away and tear down.

You will always have to re-treat, once they are in your environment, because they do come back. Heat treatment can be done multiple times as mites will continue to enter room. Same goes for whatever method you use. You have to do multiple treatments. These can be controlled, but making them totally disappear is a different story.

 

[Last stand]

I don't know if there's a difference between broad and cyclamen but the guy at my hydro shop said he tore down for one week when he had cyclamen, that was 6 months ago and he's still in the clear. I'm not moving anything back to my grow for three weeks, I'm tearing down all ductwork even the central heat and air. I'm painting everything steaming everything, bleaching everything, and I'll treat with avid and forbid etc. when I start back up. Fingers crossed!

 

[EclipseFour20]

...You will always have to re-treat, once they are in your environment, because they do come back. Heat treatment can be done multiple times as mites will continue to enter room. ...

Exactly! Thank you for admitting the heat treatment WILL reduce the infestation--but DOES ZERO to eliminate it! Just like water spraying...yes, the bugs will fly off the leaf, but the offspring (eggs) will remain, attached to the leaf underside. Naturally more heat treatments are not only required, rather--they are guaranteed!

Not saying my concoction is a holy grail, (shit if that was the case, I would be bottling it and selling to everyone at below wholesale prices)...but my broad mite issue went from "infestation" to "infection" to "zero". Yes you can win!

IMHO, I would say my success is 50/50 pesticide & technique. I posted my pesticide recipe...and attribute the ability to cover the plant 200% is from the use of a "low velocity low pressure" paint sprayer; bonus--you will use 50% less over traditional sprayers and have very little waste!

Said differently, why invest $$$$ in expensive pesticides...if the spray technique you employ misses the mark?

That said, if I had a few plants, I would follow Retro's advice on heat treatment without question...but if you are running a production operation, it really does not make sense to do something over and over and over--and expect/hope for a different result.

Cheers!

 

[Phillthy]

i think you misquoted him. he states that they will come back into the room from their natural habitat. The heat will kill them all but they will re-enter. same with sprays. you can wipe them out but they will come back to your grow room.

do the heat treatments work? yes.
do the spray treatments work? yes.
can they still come back after anything you do? yes.

the tough part with broads is you dont know you have them until it is too late. by the time you start seeing damage you have had them for a while.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

5 weeks in to flower, and the smells are stronger than usual at this point, the resin production is very much pronounced, and the yields are going to be bigger than usual.

Fucking duds!

 

[EclipseFour20]

i think you misquoted him. he states that they will come back into the room from their natural habitat. The heat will kill them all but they will re-enter. same with sprays. you can wipe them out but they will come back to your grow room.

do the heat treatments work? yes.
do the spray treatments work? yes.
can they still come back after anything you do? yes.

the tough part with broads is you dont know you have them until it is too late. by the time you start seeing damage you have had them for a while.

Do heat treatment eradicate them? NO...it is a "short-term solution with no residual affect as plants placed back among crops can be infested."

From someone that knows more about Broad Mites than all of us put together, Ray Cloyd. From his Broad Mite article:

"Hot water treatments are another potential management option that has been suggested as a means of dealing with broad mites. In fact, it has been shown that exposure times between 15 and 45 minutes at temperatures between 105ºF (40ºC) and 110ºF (43ºC) are effective in killing broad mites. Plants have to be immersed in the hot water long enough to allow penetration into areas such as the meristematic tissues where the mites are located, and at the same time not damage plants. Producers may consider implementing this procedure; however, this is a short-term solution with no residual affect as plants placed back among crops can be infested.

More from Ray's article:

Broad mites require a food source for survival, so implementing sanitation practices, such as cleaning greenhouses prior to introducing new plants and disinfecting benches will help to alleviate problems with broad mites. Broad mite populations are difficult to suppress with contact miticides because they are located in the meristematic tissues. Miticides with translaminar properties may be more effective and typically have broad mites on the label. Translaminar means that, after a foliar application, the material penetrates leaf tissues and new terminal growth; forming a reservoir of active ingredient within the leaf or new growing points. As a result, these miticides are more likely to come in contact with broad mites feeding in the meristematic tissues. Those miticides labeled for suppression of broad mite populations are presented in Table 1. Preventative applications may be required; particularly on highly susceptible crops because once damage is evident it is too late to initiate practices that may have suppressed populations of broad mites. As such, it is recommended to rouge out and immediately dispose of plants exhibiting symptoms, and those adjacent to symptomatic plants in order to prevent the spread of broad mite populations.

Table 1.
Miticides (active ingredient and trade name) that have broad mite on the label, and activity(translaminar and/or contact).

Common Name (active ingredient), Trade Name, Activity

Abamectin, Avid, Translaminar and contact
Chlorfenapyr, Pylon, Translaminar and contact
Fenpyroximate, Akari, Contact
Pyridaben, Sanmite, Contact
Spiromesifen, Judo, Translaminar and contact

Did I have a broad mite infestation? Yes.
Did I cull dozens of plants? Yes.
Did I clean the rooms, top to bottom? Yes.
Did I spray each and every plant in inventory (save the ones in flower)? Yes.
Did I use a spray with multiple Modes of Actions? Yes.
Did I repeat the application (to attack subsequent populations) every 14 days? Yes.
Do I continue spraying all plants every 14 days? Yes.
Do I have broad mites now? NO.

These are my experiences. IMHO, even if you use the best miticide and have poor sanitation practices...then you gain nothing, as you will find yourself on a hamster wheel.

Why do I still spray if I don't have Broad Mites? INSURANCE!

 

[EclipseFour20]

BTW...perhaps we should review the biology of Broad Mites, according to my buddy Ray Cloyd:

Broad mite adults are approximately 0.0009 inches (0.25 mm) long, shiny, amber to dark - green in color, and oval in shape. There are four distinct life stages: egg, larva, nymph, and adult. Females can lay four eggs per day, with the potential to lay up to 25 eggs during their life-span. Eggs are oval-shaped, white, and covered with bumps. Six-legged larvae emerge from eggs, which transition into eight-legged nymphs, and then eventually adults. Adult females are oval and broad-shaped, and amber to dark green in color; however, actual color depends on the host fed upon. Females also have short, thin hind legs. Males are usually smaller than females but are also amber in color, and possess long legs. Broad mites feed primarily on young leaves and flowers. Broad mites are cell-feeders and use their stylet-like mouthparts to feed on the epidermis on the underside of young leaves causing leaf-margins to curl downward, and become brittle, rigid, and shriveled. They may also inject toxins during the feeding process. Extensive broad mite populations may cause individuals to move and feed on the top of leaves resulting in severe leaf distortion. Furthermore, lower leaf surfaces may appear bronzed.

Broad mite feeding damages the meristematic tissue of the growing tip or apical shoot, which may inhibit growth, decrease leaf number, leaf size and area, and reduce plant height. In addition, leaves may increase in firmness and appear darker green in color than normal. The damage may resemble that from exposure to a phenoxy-based herbicide (e.g., 2,4-D).

In general, development from egg to adult takes 4 to 6 days in the summer, and 7 to 10 days in the winter. Broad mites may spread among greenhouse crops via air currents, leaves of adjacent plants in contact with each other, and by workers handling infested plants and then touching non-infested plants. In addition, broad mite females are phoretic and will attach onto the legs and antennae of greenhouse whitefly (Trialeurodes vaporariorum) or sweet potato whitefly B-biotype (Bemisia tabaci) adults. However, adult whiteflies may not remain still long enough for the mites to attach and may even resist attachment by the mites. Broad mites will not attach onto thrips or aphids.

Source: http://www.oardc.ohio-state.edu/floriculture/images/10-10_Mites.pdf

As you can see, I am not saying one treatment is superior to another, rather I am suggesting the technique one uses--can vary from "superior" to "inferior"...even when the same miticide is used.

How clean is clean?

Cheers!

 

[Storm Shadow]

In one of my rooms.... (2) 4x8 trays with 6k over them....I turned off all the AC's and let the lights cook the shit out of my room for like 2 hours...I didn't measure how hot it was...but it was unbearable and it even melted the door frame a little bit..I couldn't close the door without having to kick it hard...anyways... it burned some leaves....but.. it also cooked some BM's... I bought random clones from a collective just to try it out...the clones had BM's active on them... I couldn't find a moving one after I heated the room up....

Heat+Miticides+Praying = Best Chance of winning the battle

Everything at your disposal is the best option...

 

[Storm Shadow]

http://www.pvamu.edu/Include/TEXGED/Journal/Volume_2/Issue%202-%20online.pdf​

Seasonal fluctuation of the broad mite

Accordingly, we may conclude that the temperature-humidity combination is an important regulatory factor affecting arthropod development and that the warm and humid conditions prevailing during spring and autumn months is more suitablefor the increase of population densities of ​

​

​

​

P.latus. The progressive increase in mite population in the latter months suggests the need for initiating control of P.latus in the nursery in July or August before the permanent planting and the peak of P. latus population period.

Ice Cold Temps and Hot as hell with No Humidity... HHHmmmm
These lil bastards want to play 4 seasons inside huh...


​

 

[Last stand]

Does anyone have an opinion on the pics in post #1638? I've been researching a lot lately and all the cyclamen eggs I've seen are eliptical, all the broad are dimpled. My eggs look like two spotted or red mites but I can assure you 100% they're not. I tore my room down and I'm in the middle of the manhattan project of all cleaning operations so hopefully it won't matter, but I'm gonna treat preventativly anyways when I'm back up and want to use the right stuff. All of my plant symptoms were broad and or cyclamen also.

 

[Storm Shadow]

Does anyone have an opinion on the pics in post #1638? I've been researching a lot lately and all the cyclamen eggs I've seen are eliptical, all the broad are dimpled. My eggs look like two spotted or red mites but I can assure you 100% they're not. I tore my room down and I'm in the middle of the manhattan project of all cleaning operations so hopefully it won't matter, but I'm gonna treat preventativly anyways when I'm back up and want to use the right stuff. All of my plant symptoms were broad and or cyclamen also.

You need to zoom in much more bro....those pics aren't zoomed in enough to see whats going on

 

[GK1]

In one of my rooms.... (2) 4x8 trays with 6k over them....I turned off all the AC's and let the lights cook the shit out of my room for like 2 hours...I didn't measure how hot it was...but it was unbearable and it even melted the door frame a little bit..I couldn't close the door without having to kick it hard...anyways... it burned some leaves....but.. it also cooked some BM's... I bought random clones from a collective just to try it out...the clones had BM's active on them... I couldn't find a moving one after I heated the room up....

Heat+Miticides+Praying = Best Chance of winning the battle

Everything at your disposal is the best option...

I agree, heat treated room and equipment to 135, 10 days before flip I treated with Akari/tetrasan plus wetting agent and I finished 9 week cycle with no issues, no duds and normal yields. I battled these jokers for a over a year but the issue was misdiagnosis not inability to handle the pest. I experienced the dud effect but all mothers grew out of it very quickly, ya know, weeks not months.

I used an ovicide and I also used aspirin and Insect Frass as a source of chitin in my soil. All 3 contributed to success.

If you are using Forbid, keep in mind that it is 4-10 day knockdown and the little jokers keep injecting the toxin for the same 4-10 days. It also did NOT show effectiveness as an ovicide. Its really not a great option as a first assault.

Akari,Phantom or forbid in rotation with an ovicide combined with heat treating room between runs is working for me.

Peace

 

[GK1]

I agree, heat treated room and equipment to 135, 10 days before flip I treated with Akari/tetrasan plus wetting agent and I finished 9 week cycle with no issues, no duds and normal yields. I battled these jokers for a over a year but the issue was misdiagnosis not inability to handle the pest. I experienced the dud effect but all mothers grew out of it very quickly, ya know, weeks not months.

I used an ovicide and I also used aspirin and Insect Frass as a source of chitin in my soil. All 3 contributed to success.

If you are using Forbid, keep in mind that it is 4-10 day knockdown and the little jokers keep injecting the toxin for the same 4-10 days. It also did NOT show effectiveness as an ovicide. Its really not a great option as a first assault.

Akari,Phantom or forbid in rotation with an ovicide combined with heat treating room between runs is working for me.

Peace

Nukem is showing the same success as a preventative. As in I used it on clean plants going into a known dirty room and they are spotless as week 6. No sign of pests. Nukem could be the natural remedy that works.

And before that tea guy comments......yeah I use lots of tea too!

Peace

 

[RetroGrow]

In one of my rooms.... (2) 4x8 trays with 6k over them....I turned off all the AC's and let the lights cook the shit out of my room for like 2 hours...I didn't measure how hot it was...but it was unbearable and it even melted the door frame a little bit..I couldn't close the door without having to kick it hard...anyways... it burned some leaves....but.. it also cooked some BM's... I bought random clones from a collective just to try it out...the clones had BM's active on them... I couldn't find a moving one after I heated the room up....

Heat+Miticides+Praying = Best Chance of winning the battle

Everything at your disposal is the best option...

Will wonders never cease?
About time you tried the heat. It really does work, and is great for sterilizing equipment. However, you should use multiple thermometers in a room that size and you can keep the temps below 130 in your canopy, and you will not burn any leaves. 120 F seems to be the ideal temperature, and make sure not to have any fans blowing hot air on the plants. This will burn the pistles. Once the room is set up for heat treatments and dialed in, it is easy to turn on the heat as often as you like to keep these bastards under control. You could do it for an hour every 3 days or every day for a while if you want. If you do it regularly, mites will be almost totally eliminated, except for new ones entering the room, which, as we all know, happens. Repetition and constant scoping is the deal. Glad at least that you tried it. And it works in flower. I would do a heat treatment a week in flower in a room that has already been treated to get the ones that may come back.
I still can't understand why people keep buying clones, which are a known source of BMs. I'm sticking to seeds, and we all can make our own selections and clone from that.

 

[Messodas]

Because is the easiest, cheapest and fastest way... With clones. And if you have infected environment like I do, it's better to buy healthy big rooted clones from the shop that is BM Free. That working with seeds in infected rooms from start. We here in Austria have many shop with clones, from personal little ones to the factory like companies that have more then 200 different strains. And not all are infected withBM!.... not yet I'm afraid. I now where have I got my BM from. I'm sure for 2shops that are BM free. Cause my friend shop there and they don't have any problems.
I'm now doing my second round this year and second with BM. I have 46 plants, 20 different strains in two rooms, every big like 8 square meters. I bought clones in Vienna, they were BM free, quite sure. First 30 days veg. and now are 17 days of flowering. They are in 7 or 10l pots. I made pictures of the grow and of the damage made by BM, but I'm not able to post them here... ?
Tomorrow I'm doing heat t. With the four lights on I have now like 86F, with fans and exhaust.
I'm not using any chemicals only natural stuff.

 

[Messodas]

Is this BM damage or whathaf.ck?



I have more pictures...
My buy of the day - digital microscope kit 600X max.power! Reveal the mysteries of unseen worlds!

 

[talktosamson]

Ill tell you all this much. I sprayed with OGBIOWAR tea I made 24 hours ago and I can already see a difference under the scope. Eggs are less numerous and the adults whoa are there are stopped dead in their tracks. I will apply every few days for the next little while, but this is the best success I have seen including avid....