The Farmhouse

[DHF]

I was talkin to a friend. I mentioned that i had been treating them with avid while in veg. (for a few mites i found) (dipping them) every 5 days ...3 treatments.

He thought it could be that the plants were being suffocated from the treatment because i never gave the plants a plain water wash afterwards? Could that be the case?

But they looked fine in veg without the wash? maybe the high lumen, co2 filled room in flower is pushing the plants and some of their stomata are clogged.

Bro.....Without increased humidity levels , the stomatas won`t open up properly trying to "reserve" inward plant moisture as a survival mechanism.....but....

Plants could be coated with the treatment where they can`t transpire properly as well.....

I`ve said this many many times......I`ve only seen 1 grower exploit CO2 supplements in a "semi" sealed warehouse setup with megawattage , and it was Krusty the Krazy ass Klown with temps in the high 80`s-low 90`s lights on , with lights off excess humidity and CO2 exhausted and temps kept within 10 degrees...that said.......

What most folks don`t understand about sealed rooms is that you HAVE to provide CO2 for the plants to "survive" , not get crazy results from cuz it generally "just don`t happen".....IOW......

Get you a fogger type setup like Gettogro runs , and a Santa Fe Classic during late bloomage if needed for total environmental control Bro.......

VPD is your friend or foe depending on how far yas wanna travel down the rabbit hole for total dialage with bottomline results consistently ESPECIALLY in a "sealed environment".....aight...

Nuff outta my old ass today.....Hope it`s just an excess coating of Avid and a good washing takes care of shit......

Peace....Freds.........

 

[farmhouse cat]

I didnt evem mention that this is the 2nd batch that did this. These pictures below are what happend the first time after hitting the flower room. I thought it was a root rot issue and flushed, ran zone, flushed again added benes etce tc etc... nothing helped. Although the plants on the left did survive and are still in there..but sickly, slow and stunted. (ive been floral feeding them and it seems to help)

The plants on the right were yanked because they looked like hell. I took that right system out and clean and sterilized it. (running bleach for 24 hrs) then plain water for 12hrs).

That brings me to where i am today. I filled this cleaned system with fresh very vigorous veg plants 2 days ago and the problem is beginning again? This severe wilt at the end of 12 hr lights on is what happend the first time in the below pics. It like they are being poisoned or not able to breath and transpire.

Co2 will get turned off as well as the light over that unit until i can figure this out. Ive ran hundreds if not thousands of plants through my aero systems with these exact environmental conditions withough ever having this problem. Only thing new is these were treated with avid. So maybe its the stomata are clogged from too much cocowet in the mix??

This is the first time using adjusta wings and orca film....could the lumen output from the awings and orca throw it over the top on new plants coming from T5's? Maybe i have a bad sensor? Room feels nice like a warm summer day. res water is 70-72... ph is perfect. Roots look good.

I will get pics of the new plants that are starting to get sick and post them tonight

 

[DHF]

If ph is perfect , then it`s environment OR as BST hinted toward rootzone issues , but again.....

Hope it`s simple and easily overcome......

Good luck....Freds.........

 

[farmhouse cat]

If ph is perfect , then it`s environment OR as BST hinted toward rootzone issues , but again.....

Hope it`s simple and easily overcome......

Good luck....Freds.........

Thx for your help Fred! This is super frustrating... i just can't put my finger on it.

maybe my minisplit is poisonous.

 

[vapor]

what kind of tubs do you use for your root zone? Some plastics leach in acid/base enviros.. just a thought....peace

 

[farmhouse cat]

THX vapor.... But... This pic below is the exact system that grew these last run in a 2x a minute air exchange vented room. Only thing different is now i sealed up the room and am using co2. (and treated the plants with avid in veg) Its gotta be something to do with the environment because the roots look good and the ph is perfect. Gonna try giving them a plain water wash and turn off light and co2 for a couple days and see if that helps.

 

[vapor]

hope you figure it out as above so below....
looks like a hard hit.....

 

[DHF]

THX vapor.... But... This pic below is the exact system that grew these last run in a 2x a minute air exchange vented room. Only thing different is now i sealed up the room and am using co2. (and treated the plants with avid in veg) Its gotta be something to do with the environment.

View Image

Any time yas change setups , there`ll be a learning curve....bet on it....

I`ve ALWAYS said air exchange twice per minute since Heath taught me back in the day out yields sealed rooms with CO2 supplements , but here`s hopin it`s not that and rather something like increased RH that the girls needs are......but guaranteed....

It`s environmental....

Peace...Freds...........

 

[BldSwtTrs]

take shots of the roots.

TBH that looks EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY like my mystery problem.

Yellowing from the bottom up. Droopy/loss of vigour. During lights off they perk up a bit, but don't really regrow.

Had ran maybe 10 runs through that specific system before... then all of a sudden...

It happened pretty much instantly when I put then in that particular system.

Check your roots man. If they are growing like normal or are getting slimy, brown, or losing the typical whiteness then its pythium or some weird root related problem.

Like I said I tried cleaning out the system with a toilet bowl brush and tons of bleach and could never figure it out. Changed out some feed parts, pumps, nutes, ran sterilizers, nothing would work. Changed all my pots, hydroton, got new clones (3 batches of 115) and they would all die. Got a brand new res... nothing. Tried a few teas... nothing. Plants would look like yours within a couple of days.

I tried taking a few plans out and putting them in my veg flooded tubes and they would recover and explode with new root and top growth. I knew the problem had to be isolated to the system and after changing everything, but the tubing on the system itself I said fuck it.

Good luck man, but I am gonna say if you can get it figured REAL soon chuck the system and rebuild. I lost 3 runs worth of beautiful plants before I did it and the problem was solved instantly.

Anyway man I know this isn't what you want to hear and I didn't either. Do what you gotta do. Best of luck.

 

[DHF]

take shots of the roots.

TBH that looks EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY like my mystery problem.

Yellowing from the bottom up. Droopy/loss of vigour. During lights off they perk up a bit, but don't really regrow.

Had ran maybe 10 runs through that specific system before... then all of a sudden...

It happened pretty much instantly when I put then in that particular system.

Check your roots man. If they are growing like normal or are getting slimy, brown, or losing the typical whiteness then its pythium or some weird root related problem.

Like I said I tried cleaning out the system with a toilet bowl brush and tons of bleach and could never figure it out. Changed out some feed parts, pumps, nutes, ran sterilizers, nothing would work. Changed all my pots, hydroton, got new clones (3 batches of 115) and they would all die. Got a brand new res... nothing. Tried a few teas... nothing. Plants would look like yours within a couple of days.

I tried taking a few plans out and putting them in my veg flooded tubes and they would recover and explode with new root and top growth. I knew the problem had to be isolated to the system and after changing everything, but the tubing on the system itself I said fuck it.

Good luck man, but I am gonna say if you can get it figured REAL soon chuck the system and rebuild. I lost 3 runs worth of beautiful plants before I did it and the problem was solved instantly.

Anyway man I know this isn't what you want to hear and I didn't either. Do what you gotta do. Best of luck.

"X" can be anything......

Let`s get this shit figured out....

Peace.....Freds..........

 

[Hydrosun]

I too want to how the roots feel, smell, and how strong they are (break a little piece off the bottom). The problem can be almost anything, but I am leaning root zone.

Also why not just spry the shit out of them with water to clean any clogged pores and raise their humidity.

I've seen this kind of death in buckets, UC systems, and ponds. Reusing hydroton and sterile systems were my problems, and it was the roots that suffered.

 

[farmhouse cat]

Roots look just like they normally do. Slightly stained from the liquid karma..not mushy but do break off quite easily on the ends. Usually when they hit flower the roots go through an explosion the first couple weeks and whiten up. It has only been 2 days...but i dont remember ever seeing this wilt at the end of the light cycle. (not to mention the last batch that died) but all of these dieing plants this run and the last run in the pics were treated with avid and im wondering if i used too much soap in the dip?
Could too much soap clog the pores? I remember making the avid dip and squirting a pretty healthy dose into the container by accident. At the time i didnt think it would matter...but now thinking back i may have put way to much in. could that be the culprit?

But they sat in veg for a week after that dip. And now that i think about it they were a little slow during that time. Now maybe once they got under the 1k's and co2 it showed up tenfold?

Im going to spray the crap of them before lights on....

Forgot to mention...i put my sensor/probe from my other room in there and its spot on with the one in there. So that eliminates that as a problem.

 

[BldSwtTrs]

Dude I pretty much guarantee you it has nothing to do with the avid or "clogging pores". Are you even using a wetting agent? If not I double dog guarantee you it has nothing to do with avid. I have straight dunked 3 foot plants in a trash can full of nasty chems with wetting agents to get rid of mites and they kept plugging along.

If you say the roots are "stained" that is a bad sign imo this early. I ran liquid karma, and flora nova (which is basically the darkest sludgest shit ever) and my roots were pearly white until the last few weeks of flower.

I will bet the "staining" gets worse and acutally isn't stained. The roots are probably just dieing. Look closely and in the next few days keep running your fingers along the roots and see if you pull off any slime or what looks like small amounts of wet dirt/mud from your roots.

Your roots should be exploading right now like you said and if they arn't then it is probably root zone issues.

To me my guess was always some sort of offgassing issue with my old system because thats the only thing that I think could straight murder plants that quickly. There is some huge thread somewhere about a certain product used in the making of plastics that were used for hydroponics. There was basically an epidemic of offgassing and a huge class action suit was filed. How old is your table?

 

[farmhouse cat]

Dude I pretty much guarantee you it has nothing to do with the avid or "clogging pores". Are you even using a wetting agent? If not I double dog guarantee you it has nothing to do with avid. I have straight dunked 3 foot plants in a trash can full of nasty chems with wetting agents to get rid of mites and they kept plugging along.

If you say the roots are "stained" that is a bad sign imo this early. I ran liquid karma, and flora nova (which is basically the darkest sludgest shit ever) and my roots were pearly white until the last few weeks of flower.

I will bet the "staining" gets worse and acutally isn't stained. The roots are probably just dieing. Look closely and in the next few days keep running your fingers along the roots and see if you pull off any slime or what looks like small amounts of wet dirt/mud from your roots.

Your roots should be exploading right now like you said and if they arn't then it is probably root zone issues.

To me my guess was always some sort of offgassing issue with my old system because thats the only thing that I think could straight murder plants that quickly. There is some huge thread somewhere about a certain product used in the making of plastics that were used for hydroponics. There was basically an epidemic of offgassing and a huge class action suit was filed. How old is your table?

Yea i used a wetting agent (cocowet) i think i squirted way too much in.

It's weird... ive run with this same botanicare soup for years and always had stained even black sludgey roots that still chugged along and even yielded great but never had this wilt happen. I always just assumed it was from LK, and it was normal.

Like you said it could possibly be from offgassing but i just dont see how from the products im using?? Im using 40 gallon panda reservoirs from General hydroponics as the containers/root zone...been using these for years without issues. pvc sch40 for spray manifolds. I sure hope its not offgasing. I will definaetly eliminate everything before i trash the ssystem..especially since i have a new system i just built out of the same products.

Thx for the help blood... this is the wworst shit ever.... i wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy!

will get some pics tonight.

 

[BldSwtTrs]

yea dude get some pics of the roots too.

this mystery shit is killer and i wouldnt wish it on anybody either.

i went and dropped over a grand on products and replaced gear before saying fuck it and rebuilding.

really hoping you figure it out.

Really hope I am not coming across as the dooms day guy fwiw. best of luck.

 

[DHF]

I had healthy and "stained" roots from GH 3 part for the better part of over 15 yrs before goin full out coco , but rootzone temps were never over 69 degrees....that said....

It kinda sorta reminds me of all the "EZ-cloner" aero sprayer issues bout bacteria/pathogen buildup in the nooks and crannies of all the fittings and DIY plumbing setups that`ve been brought to light over the yrs on all the old sites dead and gone.......but....as said earlier.....

X can be anything......Push comes to shove.....Kill em all and sterilize EVERYTHING ....and then some.......Bleach , H202 , Physan 20 and wtf ever else it takes to get shit cleaned out and back ta hoonin and producin......anyways.....

Hope it don`t come to that , although all them open holes in the table ain`t a good thingy since it can raise rootzone temps and root exposure to light that`s not a good thingy , but again.....things that make yas go hmm.....

Scratchin my head and ass over here Bro.....

Holler....Freds...........

 

[farmhouse cat]

I had healthy and "stained" roots from GH 3 part for the better part of over 15 yrs before goin full out coco , but rootzone temps were never over 69 degrees....that said....

It kinda sorta reminds me of all the "EZ-cloner" aero sprayer issues bout bacteria/pathogen buildup in the nooks and crannies of all the fittings and DIY plumbing setups that`ve been brought to light over the yrs on all the old sites dead and gone.......but....as said earlier.....

X can be anything......Push comes to shove.....Kill em all and sterilize EVERYTHING ....and then some.......Bleach , H202 , Physan 20 and wtf ever else it takes to get shit cleaned out and back ta hoonin and producin......anyways.....

Hope it don`t come to that , although all them open holes in the table ain`t a good thingy since it can raise rootzone temps and root exposure to light that`s not a good thingy , but again.....things that make yas go hmm.....

Scratchin my head and ass over here Bro.....

Holler....Freds...........

Lights on now and they look perky. I dont see how the holes in the tables could be a problem since i have the refectix on the top.. but who knows. I have some root pics coming... roots dont look well..but there is new light green growth on the tips.... the smell in the tub is like dirt. Not good. Hopefully the roots excell i put in along with aquashield and great white can overcome the bad pathogens. The left side is doing ok but still not what im used to.

 

[farmhouse cat]

pics suck

 

[DHF]

Just went back and saw the netpots and reflectix covers in the holes , so that`s not an issue......but....

Since the pics don`t enlarge I can`t say anything other than those roots are darker stained than anything I ever ran , but I never used liquid karma.....that said...

If the shit stinks , then go back to rule # 1....Kill em all and let God sort em out......Sterilize and start over.....

Tryin ta fix em `ll take as long as putting new cuts in and startin over IME but again......

X can be anything and I`m so sorry yas`re havin issues outta nowhere Bro........and yeah....

Toxic CO2 issues....LOL...Always loved my air exchange twice per minute..........anyways.....

Good luck and holler if I can help Bro........

Peace....Freds..........

 

[BldSwtTrs]

Yea man you cant really see the pics because they wont enlarge, but I agree it doesnt look good.

And as far as the roots staining I think that takes time. It is definitely NOT a quick thing. Also a lot of what we think is staining is actually pythium. There are about 1000 different types of pythium and some of them dont actually kill you plants so...

Dude I have an extra gallon of hydro fungicide (the best sterilizer hands down) and would be happy to give it to you since I will NEVER use it.

The best combo HANDS DOWN for killing sludge is physan 20 for 3 days and then hydro fungicide. Do some research on this and you will find out.