Best Leds nowadays (2013)?

[SupraSPL]

@ alesh

Based on the manufacturer supplied data, the Luxeon ES deep red EX6 bin is 38.5% efficient (700mA 50c). The Oslon Hyper red 3T bin is 41% (700mA). The Oslon Hyper red 4T bin is 46% (not yet available for sale AFAIK).

The Oslon 630nm JU red is 32% (700mA 50c). The Cree XPe 630 red is 42.2% (700ma 50c). It would be hard to get the Oslon to run at 50c and its output falls dramatically as junction temps rises.

The Luxeon deep blue MR3 bin is 55% efficient (700mA 50c). The Cree XTe deep blue Q04 bin is 50.5% (700mA 50c). I use both to widen the curve.

The numbers above are based on the minimum estimates. In practice the output will be slightly higher.

I agree with you the Oslon Hyper red is now the best deep red. There are 3Ts mounted and unmounted for sale from ideal-spectrum-led and they will ship to US. I believe Newark also has some available.

Regarding your measurements of the Luxeon deep red and deep blue from Steve's LEDs, what are you measuring your vF and mA with? Accurate meters and leads can be spendy (Fluke) and as the driver and heatsink warm up the measurements will change significantly. Some of my drivers put out 720mA once warmed up and some put out 680mA (cheapo drivers).

 

[SupraSPL]

Passive heatsinking can actually keep LED junction temps cooler than active depending on the design. It all depends on how much surface area you are using for a given dissipation wattage and the radiometric efficiency of the LEDs used.

I use passive heatsinking at a rate of 17 sq in per dissipation watt (110cm2/watt). Using top bin LEDs mentioned above I end up with near 50c junction temps this way. In every grow room there is a circulation fan active during lights on. This airflow actively cools the heatsinks but by design they do not depend on that air flow. That assistance only occurs for open heatsinks and many active designs are enclosed.

Commercial LEDs will have much lower radiometric efficiency than top bin Crees. They also tend to cheap out on the surface area of the heatsink. It is heavy and expensive. So of course the NEED active cooling. Despite the fans, I would be willing to bet the junction temps of most commercial lamps are much higher than 50c.

 

[xmobotx]

wow supra! theres some #s/way to contribute!!!

 

[Mustafunk]

Thanks for the great info Supra! The winners seem to be quite clear...

Have you tested any Neutral White? It has a really nice spectrum to combine with some reds and deep reds! I'm trying to figure out the best bins... taking a look at XP-E, XT-E, XM-L2 and XP-G2 as candidates.

 

[tebos]

I also think that Cree is the way to go because of efficiency, even at higher currents.

XM-L2 T6 3C (NW) 5000K The XM-L2 NW has less red in it that its predecessor.
XM-L2 U2 1C (CW) 6500K
XM-L2 T3 7C (WW) 3000K - the T4 7C available at Fasttech is likely a T3 7C because there is no T4 7C according to the datasheet.
XT-E Q4 royal blue 450nm
XP-E2 P3 red 630nm

Those are the most efficient bins for each color available at mouser and probably the whole internet. Hope it helps to bring the DIY LED builders another step forward

 

[Efficient_watt]

Hi everyone,

I would just like to point out that oslons are available in 80 degree angle, whereas cree are usually 125. Using lenses will diminish output by 7% to 20%. This is far from negligible, for bloom, you need 80/90 degrees, for maximum penetration.

Ideal spectrum leds , mentionned earlier in this thread have very good cards, 7leds for bloom, 5 for vegetative growth.
Best option in europe at the moment i beleive, way better than rapidled ..

my 2 cents
EW

 

[SupraSPL]

Mustafunk I was torn between XML2 neutral/warm and XTE and settled on XTE 3000K R3 bin (cutter). It is only slightly less efficient than the XML2 and less than half the price.

Tebos the XML T4 7C tint from Fasttech is unfortunately not an XML2. The best XML2 warm white I know of is the 3000K T3 $6.40 from Mouser (bare).

For those interested in XML2 and neutrals, here is a 4200K T6 5B for $6.50 mounted on a star. The site seems to be a sister site of Fancyflashlights and it ships from Hong Kong. That is the best 4200K I have ever seen available (50.5% 700ma 50c) so hopefully it is not a typo or a fib. I ordered a bunch for my headlamps so I will let you know when I get them in.

 

[SupraSPL]

I agree 80 degrees is probably preferable over 120. I keep the modules very close to the canopy (~6 inches) so I have no problem with 120s but I did order some Oslon SSL80 Hyper Reds 3Ts from ideal spectrum.

I never use lenses but it could be beneficial to add reflectors to the side of the LED modules to try and recover some of the low angle photons that are scattering out the side. The only time I run into trouble (larf) is if I try to cover too much canopy with too few LED modules. The best solution IMO is to build more modules and keep them in tight on the canopy.

 

[tebos]

We need some kind of collaboration thread, which we use to test different color ratios to bring the (DIY) LED game forward.

Btw, there are lenses with 95% light transmittance.

 

[Mustafunk]

Nice to see some more contributions to this thread! We need to keep pushing the Led Lighting solutions!

I would just like to point out that oslons are available in 80 degree angle, whereas cree are usually 125. Using lenses will diminish output by 7% to 20%. This is far from negligible, for bloom, you need 80/90 degrees, for maximum penetration.

Yeah Oslons are nice if you look for small beam angles but as I will use the best bins available and that means combining 115º and 130º Crees with 120º Luxeon ES and so on, I guess using the Oslons SSL 150º could be a better option to keep all the leds at wider angles and of course, the canopy very close to the panels (máx 20cm). Are there any other advantages between SSL 80 and SSL 150 apart from that? Maybe usable for SOG grows and indicas but I exclusively use SCROG in Led indoor growing, so I don't like that design with small angle spots (thats why I rejected my old EVO 70 panel). Unless you have a very big amount of leds of course! But that would be at least double price and quantity per surface.

I'm still making up my mind, maybe I will finally go with Luxeon ES deep reds instead of Oslons. The difference is really small in terms of efficiency and you could purchase them together from SteveLEds. I need to compare the radiometric graphics to see which one could be better in terms of peaks.

Ideal spectrum leds , mentionned earlier in this thread have very good cards, 7leds for bloom, 5 for vegetative growth.
Best option in europe at the moment i beleive, way better than rapidled ..

IS Led multi engines would be a great solution but their bins are not the best. Byt their Red Oslons and Royal Blue aren't my cup of tea at the moment. Their white XT-E aren't R3 bin either, otherwise, I would keep that option in mind for sure. Althought 4€ for one Oslon SSL + Star is quite pricey looking the prices at Mouser, Led Tech or Farnell or mounted Luxeons for 3$ from Steve's. I'm from Europe too but I definitely prefer to get better bins and prices abroad than spending 4€ in each star.

I never use lenses but it could be beneficial to add reflectors to the side of the LED modules to try and recover some of the low angle photons that are scattering out the side. The only time I run into trouble (larf) is if I try to cover too much canopy with too few LED modules. The best solution IMO is to build more modules and keep them in tight on the canopy.

I was also thinking in the idea of using some reflectors, although I wasn't really sure as I've read that LED chips are very directional lights so big reflectors aren't really useful. Maybe small reflectors as the cone ones used individually with each led chip as Hans did with their Led Grow Bonsai panels. But no way lens, please, we don't want to waste our expensive high power efficient leds!

P.D: by the way, does anyone know where to purchase online this leds mounted in 20mm PCB stars?:

-Cree XP-E2 red 625nm P3
-Cree XT-E WW 3000k R3 and NW 5000k R4
-Oslon SSL 150 hyper red 660nm 3T

I can't really find them! I think Cutter, Farnell and Mouser don't sell them already on stars, right?

Keep em coming!

 

[alesh]

You can get red XP-E2 @Cutter for $3.80. They don't seem to be much improvement over XP-E(1) though. Just slightly higher If and lower thermal resistance.

 

[alesh]

...and leds.de seem to carry 4T hyper red Oslon for 2.99EUR. 80 degree version and on a square PCB though.

Is it allowed to post direct link to sellers' websites?

 

[SupraSPL]

The 3T is 350-400mW and the 4T is 400-450mW. They advertise theirs as 400mW but they don't specify 4T so I dont trust that LED.DE has the 4T bin, I assume they are 3Ts. Ideal spectrum said they might be able to get 4Ts in September.

Cutter now offers XTE 3000K R3 on 20mm stars (right after I ordered them on 10mm stars). Mark has verified twice now that they are shipping the R3 bin. I got a flux pen so soldering to the 10mm stars is much easier now so no biggy.

As Alesh mentioned, Cutter has XPE2 red P3 bin on 20mm stars. At 700mA the XPE2 red should run about 7-8c cooler than the XPE which is excellent, but the vF is higher as well as temp droop, so there may be little or no improvement in efficiency.

 

[speedyganga]

hi everyone,
I am glad I found this thread, I am trying to make a bit like mustafunk...
What I didn't understand is that oslon WW are maybe less efficient but, from their angle, we can get more photons than a cree XTE at the same distance. in flowering penetration is very important and all this photons will contributes to beat an XTE. For a flowering stage lamp, don't you think it's better to go with only WW and Hyper red from oslon and then add some XTE 6500K with a 125° angle to bring/spread some blue everywhere?

I am really wondering which led is more efficient for flowering: XTE 300K R3 with a lens on it (cost 3$ for the XTE + the lens which make a total at least of 6$) we lost 10% of efficiency generally OR oslon SSL 80 (3,5$ from led.tech). and we also have to take in acount that the second one has got a much better spectrum for plants...

 

[ChrisStomata]

was there ever such thing as a good LED grow light?

Yes! There are a few great lights. I have reviewed a few of them in the following thread:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=272436

 

[frooser]

The XP-E2 version of red has at 150°C only 30% output.
The XPE versoion of red has at 150°C 50% output. Both have the same Temperature coefficient of voltage. (-1.8mV/°C)

The XP-E2 is cheaper to build and I will go for the E2 but the best output has the http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Cree-Inc/XPERED-L1-0000-00801/?qs=qz1iJzlMsAf72zEkQwoE7A==

 

[MarCogollo]

What do you think of this setup for a 4x4 tent (1,2mt2):

40 leds x 3w (100W Real). 4 modules per panel (3). Total: 300 Watts Real.

1 CREE XP-E White 6500 ° K

3 OSRAM OSLON SSL 80, 660 nm (hyper red)

OSLON SSL April 80, 630 nm (red)

1 OSLON SSL 80, 470 nm (blue)

1 OSLON SSL 80, 445 nm (deep blue)

Meanwell "LPV 100-24" Drivers.

Aluminum heat sink (80 x 10 x 1.8 cm) finned to dissipate heat well without a fan, thus they are totally silent.

Que podria mejorar para el Proximo panel que yo construya?

 

[sammyz2646]

Yes! There are a few great lights. I have reviewed a few of them in the following thread:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=272436

[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=49608&pictureid=1158257&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=49608&pictureid=1158258&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]

Premier pruning! Looks like my prune job