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Farmer's Funky Flower Trees - PPK
- Thread starter FlowerFarmer
- Start date
That's it I 've had it. I'm gonna do my ppk with happy frog. I don't care who thinks what.
The reason: I see all kinds of nute deficiency's with coco. Turdface is already proven to work, so now I gotta prove that happy frog will work.
I start all my beans in pure coco. Sometimes they have to stay in the coco for extended periods of time while they wait for an opening in the mother room. When this goes on sometimes they start to develop nute issues from being in the coco. So how to I fix it? I put them in a bigger pot with happy frog. Within two days the probs are gone and the plants look healthier than ever. Gonna be a min before I get my ppk up and running. My homemade cab is currently full of ssdh x's that I just cloned and i'm gonna flip them tonight. As soon as I figure out sexes, and finish the girls up, the happy frog ppk is going in the cab.
The reason: I see all kinds of nute deficiency's with coco. Turdface is already proven to work, so now I gotta prove that happy frog will work. I start all my beans in pure coco. Sometimes they have to stay in the coco for extended periods of time while they wait for an opening in the mother room. When this goes on sometimes they start to develop nute issues from being in the coco. So how to I fix it? I put them in a bigger pot with happy frog. Within two days the probs are gone and the plants look healthier than ever. Gonna be a min before I get my ppk up and running. My homemade cab is currently full of ssdh x's that I just cloned and i'm gonna flip them tonight. As soon as I figure out sexes, and finish the girls up, the happy frog ppk is going in the cab.
where are you guys measuring from? The base? I prefer to use centimeters myself...
FF, that partial vacuum you describe is formed by the tight air seal of course but still should drain relatively fast unless there is either a blockage of the tailpieces or a restriction in the return hoses to the res.
it it were a total seal it could not fill the air gap region at all as the air would be permanently trapped.
something is mechanically wrong.
the pulse fires, water starts filling the upper container yet at the same time it is being drained.
this drained water is filling the plant reservoirs faster than the drain can move it so there is a temporary rise in the water level inside the plant res.
but then the pulse stops and water moves towards equilibrium.
this whole act should take place in just a few minutes.
so have you checked all lines for obstructions? your lines look like 1/2" id. do any of the fittings cause restrictions of that ID?
my garden hose is 5/8" id but the carlon fittings are a true 1/2" id so they don't cause much restriction. it's one of the reasons i went to the carlon fittings instead of the normal threaded hose barbs. a 1/2" hose barb is usually no more than 3/8" or 7/16" id.
but restrictions or not there should be no vacuum seal, even a partial one. something is wrong with the hydraulics.
until we find what is wrong try drilling a 1/8" hole high in the top sidewall of each of the plant reservoir buckets.
right under the rim where water shouldn't be anyway. try one first and see what happens.
it it were a total seal it could not fill the air gap region at all as the air would be permanently trapped.
something is mechanically wrong.
the pulse fires, water starts filling the upper container yet at the same time it is being drained.
this drained water is filling the plant reservoirs faster than the drain can move it so there is a temporary rise in the water level inside the plant res.
but then the pulse stops and water moves towards equilibrium.
this whole act should take place in just a few minutes.
so have you checked all lines for obstructions? your lines look like 1/2" id. do any of the fittings cause restrictions of that ID?
my garden hose is 5/8" id but the carlon fittings are a true 1/2" id so they don't cause much restriction. it's one of the reasons i went to the carlon fittings instead of the normal threaded hose barbs. a 1/2" hose barb is usually no more than 3/8" or 7/16" id.
but restrictions or not there should be no vacuum seal, even a partial one. something is wrong with the hydraulics.
until we find what is wrong try drilling a 1/8" hole high in the top sidewall of each of the plant reservoir buckets.
right under the rim where water shouldn't be anyway. try one first and see what happens.
Yeah, very good point - No measuring from the back of the balls, guys.
Only from the base - like bobble said.
Sheesh - little integrity here, guys?
lmao.. hilarious.
D9,
I believe it was just a line obstruction. A lot of gunk came out. I'll keep my eye on it from here on out. A couple days have pasted and everything looks to be function correctly now.
These 1/2" return lines were the same ones I just on my previous DTW. They likely had gunk sitting in the warm lines.. which remained there between grows. I thought everything would have been flushed out when I did my initial coco rinse/pre-charge, but apparently not.
Rather then drill anymore holes in the lower modules I think I'm just going to wedge a quarter or something in between the lower and upper modules to give me a small gap for air to enter.
pH climbed to 6.3 today. Seems to be climbing slower with the stronger 1.8EC mix, but I'm not totally sure. I'm really baffled as to why I cant get the pH to stabilize/maintain around 6.0. In DTW coco run-off normally ends up being right around 6.0 regardless of the varying input due to the buffering abilities of coco. Why is this so different if not for still underfeeding?
Really baffling as my bulk tank is being drained quickly so the plants are definitely taking water. With the pulse res being topped by the bulk res so frequently you'd think it'd quickly take on the same parameters as the bulk tank.
If I keep noticing EC decline in my pulse res I'm going to keep pushing EC high to see if I can reach an equilibrium where pH/EC reach stability... a water culture hydroponics background tells me that this is the logical thing to do. I've just been weary to do so since I'm in coco as opposed to straight water/rocks.
D9,
I believe it was just a line obstruction. A lot of gunk came out. I'll keep my eye on it from here on out. A couple days have pasted and everything looks to be function correctly now.
These 1/2" return lines were the same ones I just on my previous DTW. They likely had gunk sitting in the warm lines.. which remained there between grows. I thought everything would have been flushed out when I did my initial coco rinse/pre-charge, but apparently not.
Rather then drill anymore holes in the lower modules I think I'm just going to wedge a quarter or something in between the lower and upper modules to give me a small gap for air to enter.
pH climbed to 6.3 today. Seems to be climbing slower with the stronger 1.8EC mix, but I'm not totally sure. I'm really baffled as to why I cant get the pH to stabilize/maintain around 6.0. In DTW coco run-off normally ends up being right around 6.0 regardless of the varying input due to the buffering abilities of coco. Why is this so different if not for still underfeeding?
Really baffling as my bulk tank is being drained quickly so the plants are definitely taking water. With the pulse res being topped by the bulk res so frequently you'd think it'd quickly take on the same parameters as the bulk tank.
If I keep noticing EC decline in my pulse res I'm going to keep pushing EC high to see if I can reach an equilibrium where pH/EC reach stability... a water culture hydroponics background tells me that this is the logical thing to do. I've just been weary to do so since I'm in coco as opposed to straight water/rocks.
you will not be able to achieve chemical stability anywhere in the system until you solve this hydraulic issue.
my flower res and the whole floor part of the system was at 970 ppm and ph 5.9 this morning right before lights off. this is with an input of approx 690-730 ppm, which includes my 110 ppm tap water, so the jack's part is right around 600 ppm.
i have run this initial filling with only input for almost 10 weeks now
as i have loaded my room with more plants each week it has been getting more stable. once all plants are in place, 10 plants a week apart, the whole system will just sit there and run at a certain level for months.
this is because of the continuous blending and re-blending of the solution. if there are hydraulic problems this is not occurring properly.
so i think increasing ec to correct ph could exacerbate the problem.
i never had these issues in the same brand coco and the same nutes you are using so this is a mechanical problem. something is not flowing right.
mechanical problem causes roots to sit in too wet conditions.
which causes anaerobic activity and some organic die off each time.
causing plant displays and slow growth.
breakdown of organic material causes ph fluctuations.
again causing plant displays.
when you fire the pulse, do you ever stick a yardstick in the res first to get the starting level and then time how long it takes to return?
if it takes more than about 10 minutes somethin' ain't right.
my flower res and the whole floor part of the system was at 970 ppm and ph 5.9 this morning right before lights off. this is with an input of approx 690-730 ppm, which includes my 110 ppm tap water, so the jack's part is right around 600 ppm.
i have run this initial filling with only input for almost 10 weeks now
as i have loaded my room with more plants each week it has been getting more stable. once all plants are in place, 10 plants a week apart, the whole system will just sit there and run at a certain level for months.
this is because of the continuous blending and re-blending of the solution. if there are hydraulic problems this is not occurring properly.
so i think increasing ec to correct ph could exacerbate the problem.
i never had these issues in the same brand coco and the same nutes you are using so this is a mechanical problem. something is not flowing right.
mechanical problem causes roots to sit in too wet conditions.
which causes anaerobic activity and some organic die off each time.
causing plant displays and slow growth.
breakdown of organic material causes ph fluctuations.
again causing plant displays.
when you fire the pulse, do you ever stick a yardstick in the res first to get the starting level and then time how long it takes to return?
if it takes more than about 10 minutes somethin' ain't right.
D
DaveTheNewbie
as long as mine is bigger than D9's im happy with myself.
where are you guys measuring from? The base? I prefer to use centimeters myself...
I promise not to laugh if your only rocking 6.5 cm Bobbles !
ooo i suggested that
I suggested that too !
Im starting to feel pretty good about myself right now
I've been watching the system more closely lately and it appears to be functioning fine. Air-gaps are being maintained and I've not see any further issues, making me think that one bucket was a 1-off blockage issue from existing gunk in the lines. (these return lines are re-used from a DTW coco grow)
Now. mechanically.. I think the system is operating fine, but is is possible that my pulse res is too large for my needs. I've got QTY 2 yellow top strong boxes linked together for my pulse res. Because I've only been doing a wave pulse of around 64oz every 2 hours I really don' see a lot of level droppage in my pulse res during this 1min interval. In between feeds they maintain about 6 3/8" inches of water. This only drops a smidge during the 1 min feed cycle. Employing a wave pulse would I even see equilibrium being reached if the coco takes on some of this?
I havnt timed to see how long it takes to get to equilibrium, but I'm literally only seeing a 1/2" drop (maybe even less) when my feed cycle fires. Maybe I'm getting the hydraulic hookup intended in a PPK, but only very minimally?
Let me know what you think of this. Perhaps I should eliminate one of my yellow top boxes from my pulse res layout. I thought I'd want the extra capacity if running saturation in turface, but perhaps it is overkill in coco employing a pulse wave resulting in the complications you describe.
_ _
The EC thing still leads me to believe I'm OK in increasing my strength. I mean.. I'm seeing EC drop in my pulse res so the plants have to be consuming it correct?
I can literally set my bulk res at 1.8-2.0 and end up with 1.5EC in my pulse res the next time I check it after a few days of cycle. Even after pumping out the entire system and re-filling pulse res and modules with a fresh 1.8EC, I'm now finding myself at 1.5EC.. and this is even after consuming quite a bit of my bulk res at 1.8EC.
Right now:
Bulk Res 1.8-2.EC : pH 5.7
Pulse Res 1.5-1.6EC : pH 6.4
"I've been watching the system more closely lately and it appears to be functioning fine. Air-gaps are being maintained and I've not see any further issues, making me think that one bucket was a 1-off blockage issue from existing gunk in the lines. (these return lines are re-used from a DTW coco grow)"
good
"Now. mechanically.. I think the system is operating fine, but is is possible that my pulse res is too large for my needs. I've got QTY 2 yellow top strong boxes linked together for my pulse res. Because I've only been doing a wave pulse of around 64oz every 2 hours I really don' see a lot of level droppage in my pulse res during this 1min interval. In between feeds they maintain about 6 3/8" inches of water. This only drops a smidge during the 1 min feed cycle. Employing a wave pulse would I even see equilibrium being reached if the coco takes on some of this?"
i don't think there is such a thing as a too large reservoir. and you are about to try turface and a full flood pulse. all your mechanics sound good to me. i wouldn't rebuild it.
since you seem to have cured the blockage i think your system is fine but are you using longer tailpieces? the reason i'm asking is there might be some kind of hydraulic problem using them. i have never experienced any problem with the regular tailpieces.
if the tailpieces are immersed then the hydraulic connection exist. in addition to the draining phase it is also a 2 way path for diffusion.
and at this point i think there is hormonal signaling going on because of the mass availability of both water and nutrients.
"The EC thing still leads me to believe I'm OK in increasing my strength. I mean.. I'm seeing EC drop in my pulse res so the plants have to be consuming it correct?
I can literally set my bulk res at 1.8-2.0 and end up with 1.5EC in my pulse res the next time I check it after a few days of cycle. Even after pumping out the entire system and re-filling pulse res and modules with a fresh 1.8EC, I'm now finding myself at 1.5EC.. and this is even after consuming quite a bit of my bulk res at 1.8EC.
Right now:
Bulk Res 1.8-2.EC : pH 5.7
Pulse Res 1.5-1.6EC : pH 6.4"
yeah, i think you're ok increasing it a little bit. but if you are about to flip it won't do you much good.
the solution is being pulled down because all of your plants are still in the vegetative stage, but in a ppk anything you do at the volume tank has a delayed reaction so i feel that just about the time you are seeing the result you will have already flipped or are just about to.
when you go to flower the character of your res will change at the end of the second week, usually. in a perpetual room this is somewhat balanced by plants being in the stretch phase and flowering from the same res.
in your case, with all plants being at the same point in time it will happen suddenly. almost overnight.
instead of the solution being pulled down in ec and ph rising, the ec will tend to accumulate and ph will go down.
again, in the perpetual setup these are more mild and more subtle.
but all this means that we still don't know what happened to your plants.
good
"Now. mechanically.. I think the system is operating fine, but is is possible that my pulse res is too large for my needs. I've got QTY 2 yellow top strong boxes linked together for my pulse res. Because I've only been doing a wave pulse of around 64oz every 2 hours I really don' see a lot of level droppage in my pulse res during this 1min interval. In between feeds they maintain about 6 3/8" inches of water. This only drops a smidge during the 1 min feed cycle. Employing a wave pulse would I even see equilibrium being reached if the coco takes on some of this?"
i don't think there is such a thing as a too large reservoir. and you are about to try turface and a full flood pulse. all your mechanics sound good to me. i wouldn't rebuild it.
since you seem to have cured the blockage i think your system is fine but are you using longer tailpieces? the reason i'm asking is there might be some kind of hydraulic problem using them. i have never experienced any problem with the regular tailpieces.
if the tailpieces are immersed then the hydraulic connection exist. in addition to the draining phase it is also a 2 way path for diffusion.
and at this point i think there is hormonal signaling going on because of the mass availability of both water and nutrients.
"The EC thing still leads me to believe I'm OK in increasing my strength. I mean.. I'm seeing EC drop in my pulse res so the plants have to be consuming it correct?
I can literally set my bulk res at 1.8-2.0 and end up with 1.5EC in my pulse res the next time I check it after a few days of cycle. Even after pumping out the entire system and re-filling pulse res and modules with a fresh 1.8EC, I'm now finding myself at 1.5EC.. and this is even after consuming quite a bit of my bulk res at 1.8EC.
Right now:
Bulk Res 1.8-2.EC : pH 5.7
Pulse Res 1.5-1.6EC : pH 6.4"
yeah, i think you're ok increasing it a little bit. but if you are about to flip it won't do you much good.
the solution is being pulled down because all of your plants are still in the vegetative stage, but in a ppk anything you do at the volume tank has a delayed reaction so i feel that just about the time you are seeing the result you will have already flipped or are just about to.
when you go to flower the character of your res will change at the end of the second week, usually. in a perpetual room this is somewhat balanced by plants being in the stretch phase and flowering from the same res.
in your case, with all plants being at the same point in time it will happen suddenly. almost overnight.
instead of the solution being pulled down in ec and ph rising, the ec will tend to accumulate and ph will go down.
again, in the perpetual setup these are more mild and more subtle.
but all this means that we still don't know what happened to your plants.
I've had 1/2" feed line clog when turning on a new system. The tubing was used previously. Gunk along the tubing walls dried up and loosened from the plastic when the old system was taken down, and when the pump turned on the new system all that gunk was washed downstream clogging at a fitting.
^yea.
That is pretty much what happened.
The return 1/2" tubing was previously connected to yellow top strong boxes which had my 7 gal smart pots sitting in them for my DTW garden. They sat uncovered and leaves would fall down into them and decay, etc.. (below is a shot of what I mean)
I flushed the lines out pretty well, but imagine there was solidified gunk on the sideways which worked its way loose once the tubing had water in it again and was warmed up by the lights.
That is pretty much what happened.
The return 1/2" tubing was previously connected to yellow top strong boxes which had my 7 gal smart pots sitting in them for my DTW garden. They sat uncovered and leaves would fall down into them and decay, etc.. (below is a shot of what I mean)
I flushed the lines out pretty well, but imagine there was solidified gunk on the sideways which worked its way loose once the tubing had water in it again and was warmed up by the lights.
Last edited:
June 6/7th - Flipped to 12/12 - Day 1 Flower
^for my reference. I'll try to get some shots up shortly.
Going to 12/12 immediately got the plants perking again.
I would have liked to got them a hair bigger, but want to go this show rolling so that I can move into turface next round. I'll take whatever I can get this grow. I'll be ecstatic for 10lb.. Shooting for 9lb.. will be seriously dissapointed if I get anything less then 6.5lb. I've got a couple of beasts, but not sure everything is big enough to net me 1lb+ plants.
Going to keep the corners 600w instead of going all 1000w... so we'll be 6400w here instead of 8k. These bulbs all have had several runs on them now - the 600w lamps even more so. Next grow I'll relamp everything, run turface, and use all 1000w lamps...
Should be fun.
^for my reference. I'll try to get some shots up shortly.
Going to 12/12 immediately got the plants perking again.
I would have liked to got them a hair bigger, but want to go this show rolling so that I can move into turface next round. I'll take whatever I can get this grow. I'll be ecstatic for 10lb.. Shooting for 9lb.. will be seriously dissapointed if I get anything less then 6.5lb. I've got a couple of beasts, but not sure everything is big enough to net me 1lb+ plants.
Going to keep the corners 600w instead of going all 1000w... so we'll be 6400w here instead of 8k. These bulbs all have had several runs on them now - the 600w lamps even more so. Next grow I'll relamp everything, run turface, and use all 1000w lamps...
Should be fun.
Picture Update - few days after the flip.
My favorite one. She's getting pretty massive.
My favorite one. She's getting pretty massive.
What happened to all the unhappy plants?
Glad to see things looking good! Great job!
Glad to see things looking good! Great job!
Going ta just BLOW UP in there..
Looking so good FF..
K+++
Looking so good FF..
K+++
glad they are getting over whateverthefuckitwas that happened to them. i still don't have a clue! you're going into stretch in good shape and they will stretch like hell in this system with co2.
the last plant i showed in my thread with the yardstick had been vegged 3 weeks and got to 36". i topped it 4 nodes down, hollowed it severely taking all material off to within about 6" from the outer edge of the canopy, and defoliated it of all leaves that were not originating from a bud site.
it went to flower like that about 30" and now is within 1" of the 7' ceiling. it just finished 4 weeks in flower. it's also 5.5 ft wide
it is sativa dominant but all my plants have done this type of stretch in flower.
your plants are gonna get big fast now.
I know there isnt a whole lotta action around these parts but here is a quick update...
I believe we are around ~2 weeks flower right now.
I havn't touched these ladies at all really, but going to start very slowly cleaning them up a bit as the stretch slows. They've been just exploding since the flip.
Petioles always purple though.. why is that? Literally everything I grow is loaded with purple petioles. Experienced the same running 6/9, maxibloom, and now jacks. Pre and post PPK. Always purple petioles.
Some better off then others. I believe the above lady might be hoonin'. LOL
I believe we are around ~2 weeks flower right now.
I havn't touched these ladies at all really, but going to start very slowly cleaning them up a bit as the stretch slows. They've been just exploding since the flip.
Petioles always purple though.. why is that? Literally everything I grow is loaded with purple petioles. Experienced the same running 6/9, maxibloom, and now jacks. Pre and post PPK. Always purple petioles.
Some better off then others. I believe the above lady might be hoonin'. LOL
Nice comeback!
I think that the purple petioles are a nutrient imbalance... But once they're purple, they stay that way even after its corrected. I'm sure others will chime in.
I think that the purple petioles are a nutrient imbalance... But once they're purple, they stay that way even after its corrected. I'm sure others will chime in.
I'll got some better trunk shots up in the coming weeks as I clean these ladies up, but they got some stalks on em. Upper container is bursting with roots.
Might have got a little heavy on the Jacks there for a second. Slight tip curl down. I've since been topping bulk res back at 1.2EC with a mid 5s pH. Haven't checked my parameters lately, but pH still been higher then I'd like in my pulse res.
Might have got a little heavy on the Jacks there for a second. Slight tip curl down. I've since been topping bulk res back at 1.2EC with a mid 5s pH. Haven't checked my parameters lately, but pH still been higher then I'd like in my pulse res.
