Best way to defrost frozen trim to run bho?

[hachirokudrew]

Ive ran plenty of trim for bho. But i've never had to deal with trim that was already frozen. Any suggestions on how to defrost it properly if it is at all possible and worth running? Thanks for your guys time
HachiRokuDrew

 

[JColtrane]

Don't do it! your material will be fucked ... run FF h2o ... or if you got the balls, do a ff thermos soak. but please, don't defrost it!!!

 

[MildeStoner]

Why defrost? You can run trim frozen....
Was it frozen fresh or dry?

 

[Gray Wolf]

If it is already frozen, I just pummel the bags to break it up into smaller pieces and run frozen.

If I know that I'm going to run it frozen, I cut it up into about 1/4" chunks before freezing.

The trick is to not expose the frozen material to atmospheric moisture, so that the trichomes become coated with ice.

 

[jump /injack]

"The trick is to not expose the frozen material to atmospheric moisture, so that the trichomes become coated with ice."

Got some with ice, what now?

 

[MildeStoner]

bubble...

 

[gunnaknow]

"The trick is to not expose the frozen material to atmospheric moisture, so that the trichomes become coated with ice."

Got some with ice, what now?

If your freezer has an auto-defrost (Frost-Free) feature, spread your bud/trim out on a tray and leave it uncovered in your freezer for several days or more. The ice will sublimate and leave behind defrosted bud/trim.

Or as MildeStoner said, bubble...

 

[jump /injack]

"Or as MildeStoner said, bubble..."

Well, we know what he said but what does that mean?

Also, just what do you do to preclude that problem? Create vacuum in the bag before insertion into the freezer, or what? Put it in the freezer itself and not just into the refrigerator but the "freezer portion"? Can't remember now why I did that, got a wide mouth thermos and could do a soak with but that would leave a lot of water in the product is that correct? Got lazy, should have dried it in the dehydrator.

 

[Gray Wolf]

What GN said, or you could sublimate the ice away under vacuum.

You can boil ice at about a -29.8" HG.

http://www.jbind.com/pdf/Cross-Reference-of-Boiling-Temps.pdf

 

[gunnaknow]

"Or as MildeStoner said, bubble..."

Well, we know what he said but what does that mean?

It means make bubble hash bro.

Also, just what do you do to preclude that problem? Create vacuum in the bag before insertion into the freezer, or what? Put it in the freezer itself and not just into the refrigerator but the "freezer portion"?

Did you put the bag in the refrigerator section first? If so, the material could have transpired and filled the bag with moisture. The only thing that you should really need to do is push the excess air out of the bag and put it straight into the freezer. The bag shouldn't have any holes, or moist air can enter and condense on the material each time that the freezer is opened. Although, if it has a Frost-Free feature that problem should be avoided.

Can't remember now why I did that, got a wide mouth thermos and could do a soak with but that would leave a lot of water in the product is that correct?

Some ice crystals could get knocked off during extraction but probably not a significant amount. The main issue is that the ice might cover some of the trichomes and stop the butane from extracting their goodness.

 

[gunnaknow]

What GN said, or you could sublimate the ice away under vacuum.

You can boil ice at about a -29.8" HG.

http://www.jbind.com/pdf/Cross-Reference-of-Boiling-Temps.pdf

Good point bro. It will happen alot faster under vacuum than with the auto-defrost feature of a freezer, although more people have access to an auto-defrost freezer than a vacuum pump.

 

[hachirokudrew]

It weight just over a pound and was frozen fresh. Is it still worth doing at all? and what are the ratio's of bho vs gram/or OZ? does it make a difference if its frozen? Thanks for your guys time.
HachiRokuDrew

 

[Gray Wolf]

It weight just over a pound and was frozen fresh. Is it still worth doing at all? and what are the ratio's of bho vs gram/or OZ? does it make a difference if its frozen? Thanks for your guys time.
HachiRokuDrew

It is worth doing, but won't produce the same amount of oil per gram of plant weight that dried material will, because it still has the weight of the water to consider.

We would typically yield around 6 or 7 grams from an average pound of fresh trim, or equal to about 10%, if the material were first dried.

 

[JYNdustriez]

Grab a large amount of Damprid, Dowflake, or purer calcium chloride source. This is a hygroscopic compound, meaning it attracts moisture from the air and retains it among its own molecules. Fill several coffee filters or other gas permeable retaining bags with the calcium chloride. Place them throughout your bag or container with the plant material. Place the material back in the freezer. Wait a week or two, then place the bag/container in the fridge and wait another week. Pull it out into room temperature and leave for a day before opening. That is if you wish for it to be dry and at room temp, otherwise just leave it in the freezer even longer and when you are ready break it up and run it. Better yet, break it up before adding the desiccant to speed up the drying.

There are better ways to freeze dry, ie a defroster like gw said or a desiccant with air circulation in the freezer. What I listed is only a simple way.

 

[JYNdustriez]

*Seal whatever you put the powder in, and be sure the pores are coffee filter size or smaller. It will spill or shake out otherwise.

 

[jump /injack]

Found a note from myself on why I'd put the bag in the freezer in the first place, it had mildew on some of it. Greywolf or Gunnanow, was thinking I should put this in the oven first at 252 degrees first [using Jump's graph of 27 minutes] and croak the mildew virus. 212F sterilizes, do you think that this would kill the mildew so that I wouldn't have to run it through a Watman 0.2 filter after the Thermos soak. Sounds to easy, something has to be amiss. What do the experts say?

 

[gunnaknow]

You really want to remove the mold, jump/injack, not just simply kill it. You may find this useful reading.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=5434772#post5434772

 

[jump /injack]

You really want to remove the mold, jump/injack, not just simply kill it. You may find this useful reading.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=5434772#post5434772

"I happened to extensively research into mycotoxins a couple of years ago and I discovered that aside from those that simply decompose when heated, almost all of the others have melting points well above 200 °C. If you vaporize the extract at below 200 °C, you should avoid inhaling almost all of the free mycotoxins." gunnaknow

Does "powdery mildew" decompose with heat? I decarboxylized it [Jumps 252 degree/27 min.] after getting rid of the ice and will give it two hours in a butane/thermos. Sounds like if I go back to my 7 day water cure when I have problems with powdery mildew the process will take most if not all of it out. At that point I can do what ever type of extraction I want to do or just smoke it as is. Thanks again for the help.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Found a note from myself on why I'd put the bag in the freezer in the first place, it had mildew on some of it. Greywolf or Gunnanow, was thinking I should put this in the oven first at 252 degrees first [using Jump's graph of 27 minutes] and croak the mildew virus. 212F sterilizes, do you think that this would kill the mildew so that I wouldn't have to run it through a Watman 0.2 filter after the Thermos soak. Sounds to easy, something has to be amiss. What do the experts say?

It would still taste and smell like mold.

 

[gunnaknow]

Does "powdery mildew" decompose with heat?

To some degree, yes. At the temperatures that you're talking about, the proteins will denature and the microorganisms and their spores will be killed. Many mycotoxins and MVOCs will remain intact, if present however. Some powdery mildew causing species don't produce mycotoxins but it can be caused by many species, so it's impossible to say for certain that mycotoxins won't be present. Even if they aren't, you still wouldn't really want to smoke the MVOCs present.

I decarboxylized it [Jumps 252 degree/27 min.] after getting rid of the ice and will give it two hours in a butane/thermos. Sounds like if I go back to my 7 day water cure when I have problems with powdery mildew the process will take most if not all of it out. At that point I can do what ever type of extraction I want to do or just smoke it as is. Thanks again for the help.

That's not quite how I put it bro. I wrote that a water cure could remove any loose mold fragments and polar mycotoxins, not that it would make it suitable material to smoke. I then went on to say that if the water cured material is extracted with butane while still slightly damp, the mold should freeze solid and prevent the butane from extracting the cellular contents. The trick would be to make sure that the material isn't so damp that the trichomes are covered in ice. It's important to state that it was just a theory, although based on certain facts. I suggested the method to someone a few years ago. He water cured slightly moldy buds for two hours, just long enough to saturate any mold before draining until slightly damp. He then extracted with butane, dissolved the BHO in ISO and filtered with a 1.2 µm filter. His smoke report was as follows...

verdict on how it smokes. it seems alot smoother than other bho or qwiso i've made in the past, it doesn't have that kinda sharp draw when toked. i first rolled a joint and thought maybe i didn't put as much in the spliff as usual (doubt it though lol ) so fired up the bong and had a few draws on that, first thing i thought to myself was how smooth it felt - nice taste to it too. and 2nd thing i thought... (stoned smilies)