Tips on Increasing BHO yield

[gunnaknow]

a vacuum flask is actually not used to keep butane liquid...u may b getting confused w something else...a vac flask is a standard glass flask (diff sizes) with a vac tube connector coming off one side of the column part...you attach a buchner funnel with filter to the top of the flask with a stopper and then turn on the vacuum..now instead of letting your shit drip through a coffee filter w gravity its pulled w vacuum into the vacuum flask...... anyways just wanted to clear that up..i think gunna know had mentioned something about a vac flask keeping gas liquid like as in under vacuum? maybe he meant?

heres a link to a thread w a vacc flask...its used for filtering ..

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=232295&page=2

the flask with the big white funnel on top

Hi Waxmasta, the thing is that both a Buchner flask and a Dewar flask are sometimes known as a vacuum flask, even though they are completely different in design. In the case of butane extraction, we are referring to the latter meaning. A Dewar flask or Thermos flask is known as a vacuum flask because it has a partial vacuum between an inner and outer wall, which acts as an almost perfect insulator. They're routinely used in labs to store and transport liquid gases. Thankyou for raising an excellent point, I hope that this clarifies what we mean when we're referring to vacuum flask extraction.

 

[Wendull C.]

I get twice as much yield from a blackberry kush than I do from my og or gsc which test to 23%to 27% and 26%to 27.5% respectively while the bb kush only went 21%.
The former two make more potent concentrate just not as much. It is the same with dry sift. My .02

 

[noreason]

Thermos extraction needs less solvent for the same quantity of material, so usually the yield with the thermos is greater, even for a higher content in waxes due to the long time extraction.

 

[Waxmasta Flex]

Hi Waxmasta, the thing is that both a Buchner flask and a Dewar flask are sometimes known as a vacuum flask, even though they are completely different in design. In the case of butane extraction, we are referring to the latter meaning. A Dewar flask or Thermos flask is known as a vacuum flask because it has a partial vacuum between an inner and outer wall, which acts as an almost perfect insulator. They're routinely used in labs to store and transport liquid gases. Thankyou for raising an excellent point, I hope that this clarifies what we mean when we're referring to vacuum flask extraction.

oh..ok..well in the thread i listed, theyre using it to filter impurities out of oil as i mentioned...
sorry just never heard of a thermos called a vacuum flask...

oh i see what u mean..looked it up...vacuum bottle or flask...guess both applications work in con making..

 

[JYNdustriez]

Can I jump in?

Tubes really need to be packed full to get decent/consistent returns. They also do not give you very much pressure, nor solvent loading times.

Pressure increases solvency. The charts for n-butane and propane (two of the most common ingredients in cans) for soybean oil, another non polar compound, show big increases in the ability to dissolve the non polar oil. This is also true for the non polar waxes.

When you extract under pressure you allow two things, time for the solvent and solutes to load, and increasing loading capacity. Another benefit is simply the ability to shake the contents for more exposure. Commercial systems use sonic emitters. A cold thermos would work well if you can affix a good mesh screen for releasing. Home freezers cool below the boiling point of butanes. Your propane will be trying to escape, however. Because of this if you are just soaking, keep the butane cold for injection. If you have a sealed container this is not as important.

Boiling is a cooling process. With the freezers lowered temp and a little boiling going on in the beginning it seems that an unsealed jar would stay a little cooler even and aid in the contents own retention. If a jar is filled with butane and allowed to sit at room temp, it boils violently in the beginning but slows rapidly once it starts to cool itself.

When you soak, you are doing good. When you soak in sealed containers under pressure, you win.

It is a wonderful idea to get rid of the waxes via polar solution. They are terrible for tinctures(cause nasty separation), and inhalation(cause nasty lungs). - JY

 

[gunnaknow]

A cold thermos would work well if you can affix a good mesh screen for releasing.

Hey JYN, it's a nice add-on but it's not necessary. If you pour slowly, almost all of the bud/trim remains in the flask. What little does come out is caught by a strainer or filter paper.

Home freezers cool below the boiling point of butanes. Your propane will be trying to escape, however. Because of this if you are just soaking, keep the butane cold for injection. If you have a sealed container this is not as important.

Boiling is a cooling process. With the freezers lowered temp and a little boiling going on in the beginning it seems that an unsealed jar would stay a little cooler even and aid in the contents own retention. If a jar is filled with butane and allowed to sit at room temp, it boils violently in the beginning but slows rapidly once it starts to cool itself.

Yes, evaporative cooling is one of the ways in which the butane can cool down. The other way is through gas expansion. As the butane leaves the canister, it expands and pushes against the air molecules and vessel walls. By pushing against them, the butane loses some of it's kinetic energy, resulting in a drop in temperature. These are the two reasons why the gas exiting the canister is cold, even if it has been stored at room temperature. Although we prefer to refrigerate the butane before extraction.

When you soak, you are doing good. When you soak in sealed containers under pressure, you win.

You can win with either scenario but each has it's own advantages. If you use a thermos as the open vessel, the butane will remain liquid for long enough to do a complete extraction. You can keep the butane liquid in a thermos for several hours. You clearly put a lot of thought into things and it's been good talking with you.

gunna

 

[JYNdustriez]

Hey JYN, it's a nice add-on but it's not necessary. If you pour slowly, almost all of the bud/trim remains in the flask. What little does come out is caught by a strainer or filter paper.



Yes, evaporative cooling is one of the ways in which the butane can cool down. The other, more dramatic way is through gas expansion. As the butane leaves the canister, it expands and pushes against the air molecules and vessel walls. By pushing against them, the butane loses some of it's own kinetic energy and therefore loses temperature. This is the main reason why the gas exiting the canister is extremely cold, even if it has been stored at room temperature. Although we prefer to refrigerate the butane before extraction.



You can win with either scenario but each has it's own advantages. If you use a thermos as the open vessel, the butane will remain liquid for long enough to do a complete extraction. You can keep the butane liquid in a thermos for several hours. You clearly put alot of thought into things and it's been good talking with you.

gunna

Thank you for the compliments, I attempt to think things through at the very least.

I only process very dry and brittle material, even with 500 mesh stainless (~25 micron openings) I get some super fine plant matter that makes it through. Are you talking about filtering or straining it after solution with ethanol? If so, I worry about remaining water solubles in the tiny bits of plant leaching into my extracts. Probably overkill but that's how I do it. Thinking of filters I also found out tonight that Polypropylene water filter bags work awesome for straining waxes from the winterized alcohol solution. I purchased them originally to hold plant inside of my CO2 tanks. I found out they are non reactive with ethanol as well. The flow is much higher than for instance, coffee filters. With a ten micron rating they left very little for my .22um syringe filters to pick up afterwards.

Thank you for educating me on vapor expansion.

-JY

 

[desert fox]

All alot of good suggestions. I would not freeze the butane or run flash frozen (dry and cured is my prefer). just my take it doesn't work as volatile at removing product in an open system, but you get a purer product. Pack your tube betterm throw in 3 grams pack it, 3 more grams pack it and so on. my tube can fit 30 grams but I find it works better with 20 pack it down TIGHT. I sometimes run 10 grams the space above doesn't matter. STRAINS are very important. If its done giving, throw in the towel. 2nd and runs always have more mass but less weight...find your happy medium. I always choose quality over quantity.

 

[gunnaknow]

I only process very dry and brittle material, even with 500 mesh stainless (~25 micron openings) I get some super fine plant matter that makes it through. Are you talking about filtering or straining it after solution with ethanol? If so, I worry about remaining water solubles in the tiny bits of plant leaching into my extracts.

I prefer not to grind the bud too much, so a fine SS mesh is enough at this stage. If I decide to winterize then I use Whatman #1 filter paper (11 µm) or coffee filter paper. I think that GW likes to follow a similar protocol. If I wanted to grind the bud up fine, I'd use filter paper or another depth filter to begin with.

Probably overkill but that's how I do it. Thinking of filters I also found out tonight that Polypropylene water filter bags work awesome for straining waxes from the winterized alcohol solution. I purchased them originally to hold plant inside of my CO2 tanks. I found out they are non reactive with ethanol as well. The flow is much higher than for instance, coffee filters. With a ten micron rating they left very little for my .22um syringe filters to pick up afterwards.

Yes, the filter bags are depth filters like filter papers but they have a faster flow rate. They achieve this by having a higher proportion of large holes than filter paper but their increased depth provides more places for the particles to become snagged. So they can filter down to the same level as filter papers while having a much faster flow rate. If you're using CO2 or alcohol, you're ofcourse free to use polypropylene bags. If on the other hand, anyone wishes to filter the butane itself quickly, while still capturing fine dust particles, a good depth filter can be made by packing several cotton wool pads into a column and chilling it in the freezer before use. Although they'd want to squeeze it at the end to capture any retentate.

Thank you for educating me on vapor expansion.

Anytime bro. I had to learn it from somewhere too at some point, I'm just passing it on.

 

[JYNdustriez]

"Although you'd want to squeeze it at the end to capture any retentate. "

Its that last part that always forces wax through for me. Instead I rinse slowly with more chilled clean ethanol until the filtration is only slightly discolored and the solids are almost pure white. It doesn't take much in any filter, even my polypro depth filter. I squeeze clean ethanol slowly out of syringe to conserve it.

Thank you for pointing out that polypropylene is only compatible with those two solvents. I was not intending it for use with butane. I research the chemical compatibility of all materials and solvents that come into contact during my extractions. There are more incompatible solvent/material combinations than compatible ones.

 

[JYNdustriez]

I prefer not to grind the bud too much, so a fine SS mesh is enough at this stage. If I decide to winterize then I use Whatman #1 filter paper (11 µm) or coffee filter paper. I think that GW likes to follow a similar protocol. If I wanted to grind the bud up fine, I'd use filter paper or another depth filter to begin with.

I do not grind my material at all. I dry it until it is brittle and I crush it inside of a container with the blunt end of any rod like a clean steel breaker bar. I only crush it a few times and that's it. When it is high grade non compressed material hardly anything comes through the mesh.

It is some of the base material I start with. It has been dried and compressed. Just in case anyone, like I do at times, decides to go with value priced material. Even without any grinding and only manual breaking I get fine particulate that comes through my 500 mesh. I would only like to advise those individuals that they may wish to use finer filtration to ensure better quality of the end product. - JY

 

[gunnaknow]

"Although you'd want to squeeze it at the end to capture any retentate. "

Its that last part that always forces wax through for me. Instead I rinse slowly with more chilled clean ethanol until the filtration is only slightly discolored and the solids are almost pure white. It doesn't take much in any filter, even my polypro depth filter. I squeeze clean ethanol slowly out of syringe to conserve it.

Sorry JYN but you misunderstood. I was referring to filtration of the butane itself, the wax is dissolved at this point. For filtering the EtOH, rinsing through with more EtOH is good practise. Although the filter cake can be gently squeezed, if done carefully. It depends on how large and solidified the agglomerates are, aswel as the filter medium used.

Thank you for pointing out that polypropylene is only compatible with those two solvents. I was not intending it for use with butane. I research the chemical compatibility of all materials and solvents that come into contact during my extractions. There are more incompatible solvent/material combinations than compatible ones.

I wasn't really trying to point out to you that you couldn't use the bags with butane, I assumed that you would already be aware of that. I only mentioned it as a way of leading onto how others could make a good depth filter for use with butane. It's good to know that you thoroughly research the safety aspects though.

I do not grind my material at all. I dry it until it is brittle and I crush it inside of a container with the blunt end of any rod like a clean steel breaker bar. I only crush it a few times and that's it. When it is high grade non compressed material hardly anything comes through the mesh.

It is some of the base material I start with. It has been dried and compressed. Just in case anyone, like I do at times, decides to go with value priced material. Even without any grinding and only manual breaking I get fine particulate that comes through my 500 mesh. I would only like to advise those individuals that they may wish to use finer filtration to ensure better quality of the end product. - JY

Ah, that explains alot as to why you've been finding fine particulate coming through the mesh. Filter bags will certainly take care of the issue. Some of the filter bags can filter down to 1 micron, which would negate the need to use syringe filters. Anyhow, it's been good talking with you.

gunna

 

[dabbindan]

New Tane = better results!

New Tane = better results!

I just tried the Whip-it Premium and got a 6% yield increase! Anyone else seen this?

 

[SkyHighLer]

I just tried the Whip-it Premium and got a 6% yield increase! Anyone else seen this?

Are you taking into account it's a 400ml can instead of the typical 300-320ml can?

 

[blastfrompast]

i handcrush and pack 20+g in my tube...I primarily use fluff...but I pack my tube right full...no airgap in the top at all...

Strain makes a huge difference....my WW will pump out the bho, whereas my sativa or c99...not so much...probably 30% less if not more..

I run 1 can per tube and do a qp of fluff at a time, sometimes I mix it 1/2 with white widow sugar trim...this affect flavor but I can't tell potency wise as it all knocks me on my ass.

 

[dabbindan]

Yup. I am pretty sure its the pressure of the can. Ive run every brand and NEVER seen pressure like this. It was like watching a the tube take a huge piss instead of a slow dribble. Really liked this stuff. I calculated yield per gram based on the gas used...Im a science geek if nothing else. lol

 

[dabbindan]

Oh man, I forgot to mention I used my new Cali-Culture tube. Held 9.5 ounces and has the high sided can wall that just was a pleasure to use.

 

[Bongstar420]

Why are you blasting 10% h20 content? Can't wait a day to get it to <3%?

Anyways, 5.8% vs 27% is pretty meaningless if you do not express the THC content of your starting material and end product.

What gets me is when I bring trim with tops tested at 30% THC dry weight and the bag is half bottoms and the processor wants me to accept a 6-9% yield as "legitimate."

The irony is they do this after I bring in tops tested at 25% THC and the same trim with leaves and bottoms at 20% THC.

If your material is 20% THC, your yield should be 15% dry weight with a concentration of around 70% THC in the end product.

I say this because I can get 9-12% yield off 17% cannabionoid starting yield of clear resin.

Either they are skimming my yield or they aren't doing the best job they can.

This is on top of the fact that its possible to extract 1lb of material with 1-2 litre of solvent. It takes work and skills to make it happen.

We've ranged from 5.8% to 27%+, so genetics count.

That yield is from material with about 10% water content, which has been sized through a 10 mesh screen, with all the lumber taken out, and is packed firmly. We examine afterwards with a microscope, to tell when we have it all.

Hey look at that...your starting to realize why extractors are way way over paid. I never understood why some one with low skills who works for maybe 3 days on a batch deserves 50% of the return...its as if they have equally as available and valuable skills though extraction work is far easier, faster, and less challenging than growing some chronic. Most people are going to have a far easier time making good BHO than growing good bud.

Jump's experiments have also revealed the same as mine. Roughly two hours of total extraction time will extract almost all of the cannabinoids. Read this post, along with the following three posts by Jump.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4853495#post4853495

You have to test the homogenized material..Just beause you buds test high doesn't translate to lots of sugar leaf. I've grown cuts with equal cannabinoid concentrations in the bud but 1 plant yields almost 0 sugar leaf while the other is 50% sugar leaf. This is one of the factors about extractors that pisses me off- they seem to think I'm a moron and don't realize what the actual concentrations and yields should be if they are competent.

I get twice as much yield from a blackberry kush than I do from my og or gsc which test to 23%to 27% and 26%to 27.5% respectively while the bb kush only went 21%.
The former two make more potent concentrate just not as much. It is the same with dry sift. My .02

Finally, if your product is 60% selling for $30/g, then 80% should sell for $40/g

Same goes for flower; if 15% is selling for $12/g then 30% should go for $24/g

 

[Digital Man]

I'd sell the 80% at $30 and moves lbs. of it but I'm of the belief there isn't a person around that could tell the difference between a 60% extract and an 80% extract in terms of effect.

 

[Symbiotic AD]

I'd sell the 80% at $30 and moves lbs. of it but I'm of the belief there isn't a person around that could tell the difference between a 60% extract and an 80% extract in terms of effect.

Do people pay that close of attention to the THC concentration? In my opinion its the smallest factor in terms of quality once you are in the 60%+ range. I'd choose clarity, terp profile, low residual solvent, and consistency over THC% any day.