Correct way to set up fans w/lights ?

[booboo111]

Getting my first 4x4 tent and am hearing and reading conflicting advice on fan setup. Shouldn't I have an intake and outake fan for the light ? I just read the fans should be installed at the light and someone else suggested just 1 fan pulling air thru

I'll be a 1K with a Radiant 6in reflector

thx in advance

 

[OldSSSCGuy]

You want to pull air through the reflector with a vent fan, usually only a hole in the tent for passive intake. Look around on the site here and you will see how others have done it. Air likes to be pulled - not pushed...

Green mojo to you.

 

[imnotcrazy]

I beg to differ.....

You want to push the air thru a vent hood for two reasons:

#1 the heat radiated off of the bulb is not pushed thru the fan and the fan will last longer because you are not exposing the fan to unnecessary heat

#2 pressurizing a vented hood allows any air leaks (these hoods are NOT air tight) to re-enter the tent to be handled by air scrubbing.

Sucking thru a hood you are bound to have odor issues at some point

 

[booboo111]

ok thx, so I'll have the fan mounted at the light....well the good news is I'll be spending less than I thought..... oh boy i'm happy now !

 

[booboo111]

ok well there we go, a difference of opinion

 

[booboo111]

I beg to differ.....

You want to push the air thru a vent hood for two reasons:

#1 the heat radiated off of the bulb is not pushed thru the fan and the fan will last longer because you are not exposing the fan to unnecessary heat

#2 pressurizing a vented hood allows any air leaks (these hoods are NOT air tight) to re-enter the tent to be handled by air scrubbing.

Sucking thru a hood you are bound to have odor issues at some point

This makes sense

 

[booboo111]

I beg to differ.....

You want to push the air thru a vent hood for two reasons:

#1 the heat radiated off of the bulb is not pushed thru the fan and the fan will last longer because you are not exposing the fan to unnecessary heat

#2 pressurizing a vented hood allows any air leaks (these hoods are NOT air tight) to re-enter the tent to be handled by air scrubbing.

Sucking thru a hood you are bound to have odor issues at some point

I'll put the fan at the light, this would be a good way to go ? Yes?

 

[Granger2]

Booboo,
The air is not that hot [140F per mfgr]. Quality centrifugal fans are built to last is diverse applications. My Vortex's have a 10 year warranty. The mfgrs say they work better pulling than pushing.

Centrifugal fans are used to pull air thru lamps by thousands, er, 10's of thousands. When do you ever see anyone posting on this site say that they had a centrifugal fan go out?

My reflectors and ducting are air tight. It's not that hard to achieve. Good luck. -granger

 

[imnotcrazy]

First off, a lot of people run these fans at reduced speeds which reduces the fan motor's cooling capacity. Granted you still get away with doing this due to the fact the fan motor is located in the air stream.

Suggesting to place a speed reduced fan (or any electrical component) into the air stream after a hood which can increase the heat to 140F (as you say) is irresponsible. If you choose to neglect your equipment that is your decision but there is a reason I suggest to place the fan before the hood..

Have you ever stood in a 140F room??? I have (boiler room) and electrical and electronic components ALWAYS fail prematurely under these types of conditions. WHEN the fan fails prematurely, you will lose odor control, air cooling, etc.

Also, I am certain that the manufacturer warranty has explicit clauses that would void the warranty if the fan is used outside of certain acceptable usage, as outlined by the manufacturer of the fan. Have you ever called Vortex and asked if pulling 140F air thru their fan would void the warranty??

 

[booboo111]

hmmmm

 

[Granger2]

imnotcrazy,

> Have you ever stood in a 140F room???

I've been in attics that were 140F+. It made me sweat. But what has that got to do with the subject at hand? I'm not equipped for extended periods at high temps. Quality centrifugal fans are.

Neither Vortex nor Hydrofarm want to talk to end users, so
I had a long conversation on this with Grener's, and with West Coast Growers. I asked a lot of questions. The digest version is this. There is an ongoing dispute among engineers about whether it is better to pull or push the air with a centrifugal fan. So, to each his own, I guess. I'll leave that dispute to the experts.

Centrifugal fans are made to handle any heat that comes out of air cooled lamps. The air temp in a 1000w lamp is in the neighborhood of 150F. If your intake air is 100+F, the air hitting the fan is somewhere in between. They are designed for this, and it doesn't affect the warranty.

> Also, I am certain that the manufacturer warranty has
> explicit clauses that would void the warranty if the fan
> is used outside of certain acceptable usage, as outlined
> by the manufacturer of the fan.

What makes you so certain? I believe that to be true, but it is not true that, in the application we're discussing, the temp exceeds recommended max temps. -granger

 

[booboo111]

so

so

Ok, regardless of whether I push or pull, having the fan at the light would be the most efficient...I would clamp it to the light and use 1 ratchet rope at light and 1 on fan ? Does this sound ok ?

 

[anon0988]

If you're running a carbon filter, the 'ideal' setup would be like this: filter -> fan -> duct-> light -> duct -> out. I personally wouldn't hook a fan directly up to a light or cooltube just because any fan, no matter how quality, still has vibrations. Vibrations and light bulbs don't mix and result in shorter life span. This topic has been discussed in a few other threads recently and while true there is no concrete answer on push vs pull for a fan, the 140 degree F max intake temp should be followed to get max life out of your fan. Depending on your setup that could be either push or pull. I'm personally in favor of pushing air because it keeps your intake cool and any leaks from the exhaust system leak back into the room, rather than get sucked in and exhausted out (which causes stink issues).

 

[Lammy]

Ok, regardless of whether I push or pull, having the fan at the light would be the most efficient...I would clamp it to the light and use 1 ratchet rope at light and 1 on fan ? Does this sound ok ?

the fan should be mounted to something to hold its weight if you attach it to the hood just using a band clamp it will eventually come off.

I agree with Granger.
I completely disagree with I'mnotcrazy.

with a small one light setup it might not make much of a difference. but it's a lot easier to install the ducting if you're going to pull air through it.

if you push air through flex duct it expands to it's maximum length. which will tend to push your lights around. but it depends on your particular set up. I cannot imagine anytime I would ever want to blow air through the flex ducts.

 

[gaiusmarius]

it is true that most of those ventilation units we use work most efficiently when the air is pulled, but that is not the way to go for air cooled lights. as has been said if you pull that hot air into the fan you will burn it out with time. also odor control is much easier to achieve if you push the air through your light. so you have filter then fan sucking the air through the filter and blowing it through the hood and then outside. then just add a passive intake near the bottom of the tent. just make sure the intake is from outside and that the exhaust is going outside too.

 

[catalyte]

If you're running a carbon filter, the 'ideal' setup would be like this: filter -> fan -> duct-> light -> duct -> out. I personally wouldn't hook a fan directly up to a light or cooltube just because any fan, no matter how quality, still has vibrations. Vibrations and light bulbs don't mix and result in shorter life span. This topic has been discussed in a few other threads recently and while true there is no concrete answer on push vs pull for a fan, the 140 degree F max intake temp should be followed to get max life out of your fan. Depending on your setup that could be either push or pull. I'm personally in favor of pushing air because it keeps your intake cool and any leaks from the exhaust system leak back into the room, rather than get sucked in and exhausted out (which causes stink issues).

right on the money....

/end thread....

 

[Granger2]

Booboo,
Controlling smell is about the most important thing to be sure of. If you don't think you can make your lamp ventilation air tight, then, I agree, blow thru them. Mines are air tight. It was easy, cheap.

If you're reason for blowing thru is to protect the fan, don't worry about it. Good luck. -granger

 

[booboo111]

the fan should be mounted to something to hold its weight if you attach it to the hood just using a band clamp it will eventually come off.

I agree with Granger.
I completely disagree with I'mnotcrazy.

with a small one light setup it might not make much of a difference. but it's a lot easier to install the ducting if you're going to pull air through it.

if you push air through flex duct it expands to it's maximum length. which will tend to push your lights around. but it depends on your particular set up. I cannot imagine anytime I would ever want to blow air through the flex ducts.

If you'll indulge me a bit more....I have a separate fan for my phresh filter so that I can figure out....could you give me a visual on mounting the light fan, I want to keep everything inside the tent to reduce noise, how might I mount the fan closer to the light ? Have 6in or so of ducting between the fan and light ?


thx

 

[booboo111]

If you'll indulge me a bit more....I have a separate fan for my phresh filter so that I can figure out....could you give me a visual on mounting the light fan, I want to keep everything inside the tent to reduce noise, how might I mount the fan closer to the light ? Have 6in or so of ducting between the fan and light ?


thx

I should have added I want to be able to raise and lower the light

 

[imnotcrazy]

Do you even know the motor's INSULATION CLASS??

Do you even know the motor's INSULATION CLASS??

imnotcrazy,

> Have you ever stood in a 140F room???

I've been in attics that were 140F+. It made me sweat. But what has that got to do with the subject at hand? I'm not equipped for extended periods at high temps. Quality centrifugal fans are.

Neither Vortex nor Hydrofarm want to talk to end users, so
I had a long conversation on this with Grener's, and with West Coast Growers. I asked a lot of questions. The digest version is this. There is an ongoing dispute among engineers about whether it is better to pull or push the air with a centrifugal fan. So, to each his own, I guess. I'll leave that dispute to the experts.

Centrifugal fans are made to handle any heat that comes out of air cooled lamps. The air temp in a 1000w lamp is in the neighborhood of 150F. If your intake air is 100+F, the air hitting the fan is somewhere in between. They are designed for this, and it doesn't affect the warranty.

> Also, I am certain that the manufacturer warranty has
> explicit clauses that would void the warranty if the fan
> is used outside of certain acceptable usage, as outlined
> by the manufacturer of the fan.

What makes you so certain? I believe that to be true, but it is not true that, in the application we're discussing, the temp exceeds recommended max temps. -granger

http://www.electromotores.com/PDF/InfoTécnica/EASA/Understanding Motor Temperature Rise Limits.pdf


You completely missed the point of me asking about standing in a 140F room.. Totally ignored the comment about electrical and electronic components premature failure rate due to exposure to extreme temperatures.

Typically NO motor winding insulation is rated in the 140F+ temperature range, this is what "makes me so certain" that you are giving bad advice which can compromise the equipment of others.

Also, these fans were NOT "designed for this" the manufactures of these fans existed for some time before they started to cater to this market