bobblehead overtakes

[bobblehead]

i would reject that article due to age. 40 years old. Not even a reviewed RCD.

....

now im just stirring shit.

I'm done with finals... Now I can play games...

Secondary metabolism in cannabis
Isvett Josefina Flores-Sanchez, Robert Verpoorte
Received: 10 October 2007 / Accepted: 7 March 2008 / Published online: 8 April 2008
Springer Science+Business Media B.V. 2008

Evan Mills, The carbon footprint of indoor Cannabis production, Energy Policy, Volume 46, July 2012, Pages 58-67, ISSN 0301-4215, 10.1016/j.enpol.2012.03.023.
(http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421512002285)

Janet M. Hurley, Jason B. West, James R. Ehleringer, Tracing retail cannabis in the United States: Geographic origin and cultivation patterns, International Journal of Drug Policy, Volume 21, Issue 3, May 2010, Pages 222-228, ISSN 0955-3959, 10.1016/j.drugpo.2009.08.001.
(http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0955395909001157)

Vanhove, W., Surmont, T., Van Damme, P., & De Ruyver, B. (2012). Yield and turnover of illicit indoor cannabis ( cannabis spp.) plantations in belgium. Forensic Science International (Online), 220(1), 265-270. doi:http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.forsciint.2012.03.013

Barratt, M. J., Bouchard, M., Decorte, T., Vibeke, A. F., Hakkarainen, P., Lenton, S., . . . Potter, G. R. (2012). Understanding global patterns of domestic cannabis cultivation. Drugs and Alcohol Today, 12(4), 213-221. doi:http://dx.doi.org/10.1108/17459261211286627

Vanhove, W., Van Damme, P., & Meert, N. (2011). Factors determining yield and quality of illicit indoor cannabis ( cannabis spp.) production. Forensic Science International (Online), 212(1), 158-163. doi:http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.forsciint.2011.06.006







and I rest my case. Come back at me with some psuedoscience, please.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

the last one looks like it might be worth a read.

 

[bobblehead]

Vanhove, W., Van Damme, P., & Meert, N. (2011). Factors determining yield and quality of illicit indoor cannabis ( cannabis spp.) production. Forensic Science International (Online), 212(1), 158-163. doi:http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.forsciint.2011.06.006

"the present study focuses on cultivation in peat soil, which is the mainstream indoor cannabis production system in Belgium. The aims of this study are to (i) determine cannabis yield in indoor cannabis plantations; (ii) assess which are the most important yield-determining factors; (iii) assess whether cannabinoid concentrations correspond with values previously reported in The Netherlanda.[15]; (iv) evaluate which of the yield determining factors also affect cannaboinoid concentrations."

Clearly there's no peer-reviewed articles that study what we do...

 

[Avinash.miles]

I love you bobblehead

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

Vanhove, W., Van Damme, P., & Meert, N. (2011). Factors determining yield and quality of illicit indoor cannabis ( cannabis spp.) production. Forensic Science International (Online), 212(1), 158-163. doi:http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.forsciint.2011.06.006

"the present study focuses on cultivation in peat soil, which is the mainstream indoor cannabis production system in Belgium. The aims of this study are to (i) determine cannabis yield in indoor cannabis plantations; (ii) assess which are the most important yield-determining factors; (iii) assess whether cannabinoid concentrations correspond with values previously reported in The Netherlanda.[15]; (iv) evaluate which of the yield determining factors also affect cannaboinoid concentrations."

Clearly there's no peer-reviewed articles that study what we do...

View Image

they got below average yields according to belgium police AKA they are suck growers AKA thier opinion is worthless to me.

EDIT : AND it doesnt address defolitaion / pruning / trimming / topping / WTF everyone is whining all about ! Its still just a review, not a RCD, so at best its level 3 evidence. Total fail.

 

[Bassy59]

I just wonder Bobblehead if you even read any of those articles you linked? Not a single one applies to topic. Not one.

 

[vangaurd]

I mean why beat a dead horse? I know some people live to get into pissing matches but really? This conversation is ruining an otherwise awesome thread. Everyone has THEIR way of doing it and if you dont like someone elses technique then dont do it...Bubble i wish you all the luck with what you are doing but come on guys....

 

[megayields]

Well????? You cannot keep up in suspense?? DID you pass your finals?

 

[DrFever]

Yea how did you do with exams ???? BH
And bottom line i really don;t care what people do to there plants skin them do what ever you want lol
One thing i know there a amazing plant that can be hammered with punishment and 90 percent o the time will come back.
Only pruning i will do is removal of lower bud sites and lower branches that will not produce with great result and will keep doing it that way knowing your limits, and strain is key to good harvests train train train your plants for as many shoots as possible near your light source and you will be rewarded every time its just that simple you here many mention early veg de leafing to get lots of branches again this process does work but it takes a while for plant to kick in is this not what we want to do we want fast veg times to get plants as big as possible ???? here is plants with LST, and cropping look at the branches with no time lost in veg i think they were like 2 weeks old from rooted clone under 2k
and in flower let them buck you will have bigger buds not just airy little buds once dried
from what i am finding as soon as you start taking off more then 30 percent of foilage loss of yields are evident here are some tests done more leafs defoiled more loss in yield

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/procrop/crn/hailvg07.htm

http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/procrop/crn/hailrp09.htm

 

[Bassy59]

Last I knew corn is not mj. Further, was that corn grown INDOORS?

Why people insist on using these types of studies is beyond me. They would only partially be of small value if we were talking about our pruning or defoliation growing outdoors.

The lack of relevance of these articles, being used as evidence, confounds me.

Yes DF, we are in mucho agreement when it comes to training. As you should know from the original hi-yield defoliation article, that's a major part of the entire process we use when defoliating (using k33ftreez definition).

However, you seem to often bring up lost time with longer veg. Yet most of us here are running grows where we are vegging plants while others are in flower. Flower times typically last 8 weeks for indicas. Yet us defoliators dont veg for 8 weeks. We just plan our veg times for the slowed veg from defoliation to match flipping right after harvest. You've been told that NUMEROUS times. Please, don't even bring it up. It's irrelevant after the first grow goes into flower and we start the next batch to veg while the other is in flower. I currently have 4 Kosher Kush at about 11-12 days into 12/12. I also popped seeds and have 2nd node on Holy Grail Kush. They will be ready for flipping at the time I yank my Kosher Kush to harvest. I lose no time. I can get 5-6 harvest per year. It's an important part of the plan if we're using this method of pruning.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

No.. it is not irrelevant.

You still are vegging for longer.. under veg lights for longer, and incurring the costs of those lights for longer.


Despite always keeping your flowering room full and on 12/12 you can't negate the fact that you are having to run your vegetative lights for a longer period of time vs. those whom do not stress/slow their plant. They can delay their vegetative batch if necessary as well (by rooting later).. the difference is they are not incurring the costs of the lights while one who defoliates is.


While the difference may be negligible if you are talking small amount of fluorescent wattage, any substantial HID veg setup will be decreasing efficiency by employing defoliation for slowed veg times. They remain under lighting for longer.


This debate has went down a million times ...tree growers vs. sog setups. Yea.. with a dedicated veg setup they may get the same crops per year, but the SOG grower is obtaining much higher efficiency as he doesn't have the electrical costs associated with said veg room to keep it all in full circle.


I see what you're saying, but it is far from irrelevant... At least not in regards to costs/efficiency. If one is debating the use in terms of yield, they absolutely must take into consideration efficiency/costs associated with any such plausible increase in yield by such a technique.


slowed veg = higher costs associated with said crop (lights, water, nutes, personal time, etc) . How much depends on the scale of said operation. If you are slowing your veg growth, are you then are also consuming more water/nutrients, etc to sustain that period of delay. This is all very much so relevant. Time = Money.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

OMG i was taking the piss guys ... yes a study on corn or beetroots has applications to MJ. They are plants.

In horticulture... Many studies apply to more than one type of crop... I believe cannabis is classified as a C3 plant, so any study on a C3 plant will have correlations.

correlations people, its not just a big word

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I use light placement in veg to get my plant to the shape I want. I do not remove leaves. I do remove leaves in flower after stretch is over. This is done so that that shaded buds fill out.

That said Flower farmer you are not mentioning the cost associated with higher plant numbers. It is far more inportant in some cases to have a lower plant count. This can be for prosecution reasons or to maintain legal limits.

I think that this debate should go on but should also include the ramifications of why some one would want to lower their plant number.

 

[bobblehead]

OMG i was taking the piss guys ... yes a study on corn or beetroots has applications to MJ. They are plants.

correlations people, its not just a big word

I knew you were joking Dave... and I would expect that kind of constructive criticism from a peer. Thanks.

I was just having some fun... sheesh... Don't feed the trolls. Its my thread, if you don't like what I have to say, peace out. If you're here to see me fail, then you'll be sadly disappointed. If you're here to help, then a friendly tone would be appreciated... Unless you're one of the regular assholes that hangs around this thread.

Finals went well I think... IDK really, I just had to write a couple of papers and take some quizzes that I had put off all semester. I've learned to quit worrying about my grades, and just apply myself... So far it has worked well.

I only had time for a day trip this week... I only had a few tasks I wanted to accomplish: 1. install the new RO unit, 2. chop a table. 3. Hang trellis in the Octagon.

The RO unit was such a joke! I bought a 180gpd unit with a pressure booster. It was supposed to come ready to go out of the box, with minimal assembly. After spending $35 in quick connect fittings and a 3/8" saddle valve... I was missing a gasket for the membrane canister. Luckily I had extra gasket material in my tool box and I made do. My last RO unit came with a busted gasket. I really wonder if these people aren't high... Anyway, so i finally get my RO unit plumbed, and the pressure booster won't work. This thing came with low and high pressure sensors, and an auto-shutoff mechanism... I removed the auto-shutoff, and nothing. I ended up hard wiring the booster pump and bypassing the pressure sensors... what a joke. I can go back and wire the high pressure sensor later so it shuts off when the float closes. Anyway, I'm in business now! Both tanks are filling.

I'm gonna get crazy here in a couple weeks... I'm going to plumb a new heat exchanger, have my RO feed off the waste water from the heat exchanger, and have my humidifiers feeding off the waste from my RO. Holla!

Oh, and I moved my camera to the TV setting, and the pics are way better!

Octagon @ 2.5 weeks... I got in there and hung the horti-trellis... Its about to go jumanji in there! Big thanks to Heath, DHF, and BST for those micro-sprinklers! I'm gonna get it this time. This one is in peat. Thanks to Veg for that.

Straw DD @ 5.5 weeks- in peat

@6.5 weeks

 

[bobblehead]

Headband 2 10.5 weeks

8.5 weeks

@ 4.5 weeks- in peat

 

[Veg N Out]

I would run ro in the humidifiers, high ppm water gunks em up fast and the watermleaves residue.

 

[5th]

Lookin' solid Bobble.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

killing it Bobble. Octagon looking fuller then ever, and the horizontal runs are smashing it.


You don't gotta tell me twice Ichabod. At the point I am right now I'll throw a bit of efficiency out of the window in exchange for some piece of mind. ~7 plants is what I'm sticking right now...with 8 lights around them .

As Bobble is leaning towards as of late.. there has to be that point where you gotta wise up and lock in some gains. The more success had, the more I realize it has to be preserved. Any yields put up due to elevated plant numbers goes right out the window if something were to happen and the feds decide to take over due to the #s involved. They play by their own set of rules.. best to remain of zero interest to them. ~small potatoes.

Got a homie doing ~4 because feds decided to take his meager grow and make it appear that it was something it was not. Got caught up in the end figures and forgot to look at the overall picture. Now his investment is costing him in the worst way.. his time and freedom.

Stay smart, stay humble, and continue to keep taking some profit off of the table to lock in gains. Don't ever want to look back and realize it was all in vain as I see many growers do before.


Even in the non-friendlies... some massive trees with no evidence of sale or priors, probation is highly plausible with a good lawyer. A bit harder if they deem and vilify you their #1 man with a clone factory capable of supplying the city.

Staying free and mentally sane is my #1 priority over efficiency and yield any day of the week...
... no bro-science or scientific paperwork required.

 

[bobblehead]

I would run ro in the humidifiers, high ppm water gunks em up fast and the watermleaves residue.

Thanks for the tip. I'm using whole house humidifiers. I could try putting one of them on its own loop with a reservoir and try out the RO.

Lookin' solid Bobble.

killing it Bobble. Octagon looking fuller then ever, and the horizontal runs are smashing it.


You don't gotta tell me twice Ichabod. At the point I am right now I'll throw a bit of efficiency out of the window in exchange for some piece of mind. ~7 plants is what I'm sticking right now...with 8 lights around them .

As Bobble is leaning towards as of late.. there has to be that point where you gotta wise up and lock in some gains. The more success had, the more I realize it has to be preserved. Any yields put up due to elevated plant numbers goes right out the window if something were to happen and the feds decide to take over due to the #s involved. They play by their own set of rules.. best to remain of zero interest to them. ~small potatoes.

Got a homie doing ~4 because feds decided to take his meager grow and make it appear that it was something it was not. Got caught up in the end figures and forgot to look at the overall picture. Now his investment is costing him in the worst way.. his time and freedom.

Stay smart, stay humble, and continue to keep taking some profit off of the table to lock in gains. Don't ever want to look back and realize it was all in vain as I see many growers do before.


Even in the non-friendlies... some massive trees with no evidence of sale or priors, probation is highly plausible with a good lawyer. A bit harder if they deem and vilify you their #1 man with a clone factory capable of supplying the city.

Staying free and mentally sane is my #1 priority over efficiency and yield any day of the week...
... no bro-science or scientific paperwork required.

Thanks for the kind words. I couldn't have been happier when I got up there and saw everything. Now with 2 RO units, I should be unstoppable...

7 plants, huh? I thought the 24 I'm licensed for was a low number! I would like to get another card, so I can have 36. A fully licensed caregiver is allowed up to 72 plants with 5 caregiver cards and a patient card. I'm a lot more picky about my patients now than I was few years ago. I won't make the same mistakes that lead to my door getting kicked in.

Its 100% about protecting my ASSets. Not everyone has a medical program to protect them. I do. It won't be long now and both of my houses will be paid off, and I'll have several degrees. None of which is worth risking for a grow... Its time to get compliant with the state.

The MMMP has finally got caught up apparently... because my new cards came within a month of filing.

 

[megayields]

Excellent job brah...I especially like the Headband! Come out to Cali and chill ax afterwards!