Help with Diagnosis for Sativa Strain in Organic Soil Less Mix

[yankeegreen]

Hello ICMag Forum mates!

I have been auditing the site for some time now and shamefully have not even introduced myself yet. I will get to that in the proper place post crisis management - I promise.

So here's my issue: In the past week the leaves of the sativas have been consistently and quickly yellowing and slight tacoing. I am currently in the 3rd week of flowering a couple sativa doms and an indica dom. They are growing in a medium primarily ProMix BX, FF Ocean Forest, perlite and vermiculite. I am feeding Earth Juice line of nutes, currently Grow (N), Catalyst, Bloom (P) and Hi-Brix (K) as an aerated tea. The ph of the tea is ~5.5 and initial runoff is ~6.4. Lights on temp is ~74*F, off ~60-62. All the above applies to the indica which is thriving quite well.

My initial reaction is that it is an N deficiency as the sativas have been stretching quite a bit the last week, but the tacoing has thrown me a bit. Any observations, suggestions, etc appreciated.

Pics added as attachments. Last pic is the healthy indica, same conditions.

 

[Seandawg]

Your real issue is your soil mix. That's the basis to everything. You get that right an literally you need nothing but water

 

[dogfishheadie]

aye, I would start to rethink your soil mix for your next time around. seeing that that this won't solve your immediate problem with the ladies, i'd recomend the following.

1) i'd do a 2" top dress and or slurry with high quality earth worm castings, that seems to do the trick with problems of this nature.
2) stop feeding with all those crazy concoctions of bottle stuff asap
3) hit it with the mix below. Water undiluted and see if you don't notice any greening up in the next 24-48 hrs. The N in the alfalfa becomes instantly available along with a sleu of micronutrients from the kelp and a long list of secondary metabolites from both.

1/2 cup alfalfa
1/4 cup kelp

Per 5 gal water and bubble for 24hrs - then add:

25ml potassium silicate (Protekt)
50-100ml fulpower
1/2 cupaloe Vera juice

good luck and let us know!

 

[John Deere]

Welcome, yankeegreen. Glad to have you. Now let's see if we can get you off those bottles.

I agree with the Sean and dfh. I used to run the GO line in coco/perlite and always had issues of some sort or other. Since switching to a quality ROLS my problems have disappeared. It's amazingly simple. The ROLS mega thread is awesome but check out FTI's thread for a simple introduction that'll get you on the right path.

Making Organic Potting Soil 101

But to the issue at hand, topdress with some EWC. Get some if you don't have any. It's a staple in organic growing. I'm starting to see ads for local ewc on craigslist or check some gardening centers. Kelp is another staple. Hydrolyzed fish helped get me through my first attempt at organic in a way too small container. I'd also hit them with a basic EWC/molasses ACT to get some microherd action going.

No need for ph technobabble with organics. Your microbes take care of that for you.

Best of luck.

 

[Gascanastan]

The first thing I saw as the main problem is this:

"They are growing in a medium primarily ProMix BX, FF Ocean Forest, perlite and vermiculite. I am feeding Earth Juice line of nutes, currently Grow (N), Catalyst, Bloom (P) and Hi-Brix (K) as an aerated tea. The ph of the tea is ~5.5 and initial runoff is ~6.4"

This is what the cannabis marketing industry has done to you and your garden...^^^...I know that statement may not make sense now...but if you learn soil it will.

You were probably sold on an idea that this would produce the best organic cannabis.(as most of us were)..so you follow the advice that's been in existence for for 30 years....but it's wrong,because your plants are not healthy...you are now finding out first hand that you were a victim of predatory marketing in a 'grey' area legally..and your plants are dying.

Listen to these guys!!!!!!!

...but for a quick fix topdress with EWC...or transplant into a real living soil.
Gas

 

[VerdantGreen]

what size pots are you using and how long have the plants been in them?

plants look generally hungry to me yet you seem to be feeding them plenty - often that is due to root binding (as in the roots have outgrown the pot and many of them are not in contact with the soil. if this is the case then you still just about have time to make it worthwhile doing a repot (into a bit bigger pot, not one that is loads bigger)

VG

 

[bigshrimp]

You soil mix lacks the crucial humus component which allows you to properly use non water soluble nutrients. Especially with bottled organic nutrients only a portion is immediately available, the rest must be cycled by microbes.

If the plant is too big for the pot it can show deficiency symptoms no matter how good the soil is too.

 

[Gascanastan]

If the plant is too big for the pot it can show deficiency symptoms no matter how good the soil is too.

This too ^^^
VG and Bigshrimp are correct,especially w/sativa dominant plants.

.... yet the size of the plants compared to the size of the one pot I can see in the pix says it's not the pot or plant size.

 

[yankeegreen]

Sean/DFH - Been reading a lot on ROLS and will likely be heading that way in the future.

DFH - Thanks for the recipe but I'm afraid I don't have the ingredients. Starting a list.

 

[yankeegreen]

Welcome, yankeegreen. Glad to have you. Now let's see if we can get you off those bottles.

I agree with the Sean and dfh. I used to run the GO line in coco/perlite and always had issues of some sort or other. Since switching to a quality ROLS my problems have disappeared. It's amazingly simple. The ROLS mega thread is awesome but check out FTI's thread for a simple introduction that'll get you on the right path.

Making Organic Potting Soil 101

But to the issue at hand, topdress with some EWC. Get some if you don't have any. It's a staple in organic growing. I'm starting to see ads for local ewc on craigslist or check some gardening centers. Kelp is another staple. Hydrolyzed fish helped get me through my first attempt at organic in a way too small container. I'd also hit them with a basic EWC/molasses ACT to get some microherd action going.

No need for ph technobabble with organics. Your microbes take care of that for you.

Best of luck.

Thanks for the link and the tips. I am coming from a chem mindset (first "organic" attempt) and know ph is less forgiving with non-organic. I hear people arguing all sides of ph importance with organic from critical to doesn't really matter. I do mix EWC in with my mix (left that out), ~15% of total starting medium. I'll look into sourcing kelp, but have EWC/molasses for immediate use. The plants are currently in 5gal nursery pots.

Thanks for the response.

 

[yankeegreen]

The first thing I saw as the main problem is this:

"They are growing in a medium primarily ProMix BX, FF Ocean Forest, perlite and vermiculite. I am feeding Earth Juice line of nutes, currently Grow (N), Catalyst, Bloom (P) and Hi-Brix (K) as an aerated tea. The ph of the tea is ~5.5 and initial runoff is ~6.4"

This is what the cannabis marketing industry has done to you and your garden...^^^...I know that statement may not make sense now...but if you learn soil it will.

You were probably sold on an idea that this would produce the best organic cannabis.(as most of us were)..so you follow the advice that's been in existence for for 30 years....but it's wrong,because your plants are not healthy...you are now finding out first hand that you were a victim of predatory marketing in a 'grey' area legally..and your plants are dying.

Listen to these guys!!!!!!!

...but for a quick fix topdress with EWC...or transplant into a real living soil.
Gas

Thanks Gas - moving in the ROLS direction but working on triage right now. EWC on the way.

 

[yankeegreen]

what size pots are you using and how long have the plants been in them?

plants look generally hungry to me yet you seem to be feeding them plenty - often that is due to root binding (as in the roots have outgrown the pot and many of them are not in contact with the soil. if this is the case then you still just about have time to make it worthwhile doing a repot (into a bit bigger pot, not one that is loads bigger)

VG

The sativas are in 5 gal nursery pots and were upcanned on 3/28 from 2gal pots. They showed a bit of spinout, but not much at that time. Don't think pot size is the issue but welcome any feedback.

 

[yankeegreen]

You soil mix lacks the crucial humus component which allows you to properly use non water soluble nutrients. Especially with bottled organic nutrients only a portion is immediately available, the rest must be cycled by microbes.

If the plant is too big for the pot it can show deficiency symptoms no matter how good the soil is too.

Thanks BS, moving in the ROLS direction - do you think a top dress of organic material.compost will help at this stage?

 

[yankeegreen]

This too ^^^
VG and Bigshrimp are correct,especially w/sativa dominant plants.

.... yet the size of the plants compared to the size of the one pot I can see in the pix says it's not the pot or plant size.

Agreed. Good point but I don;t think its the issue here.

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

The sativas are in 5 gal nursery pots and were upcanned on 3/28 from 2gal pots. They showed a bit of spinout, but not much at that time. Don't think pot size is the issue but welcome any feedback.

In your original post you stated that your plants have been flowering for 3 weeks. If they were last transplanted on 3/28, this must mean that you transplanted them after flowering started? Same day? Did they go into shock?

I always try to transplant at least a week before the girls are gonna go into flower. I personally have run into problems whenever I have tried a run w/out adding any dry amendments to the soil mix...been a long time since I've done something like that.

 

[yankeegreen]

In your original post you stated that your plants have been flowering for 3 weeks. If they were last transplanted on 3/28, this must mean that you transplanted them after flowering started? Same day? Did they go into shock?

I always try to transplant at least a week before the girls are gonna go into flower. I personally have run into problems whenever I have tried a run w/out adding any dry amendments to the soil mix...been a long time since I've done something like that.

You are correct on the timing, they were upcanned to their current pots 6 days after moving to flower and after final sexing. No noticeable stress due to the transplant, but they did have a slower than usual adjustment from PL-L to HPS lighting.

 

[VerdantGreen]

how were the roots when you repotted? had they been rootbound in their former pots?

6 days in isnt ideal but should be ok unless its a huge increase in pot size or there is something to slow them down.

are you finding that the soil dries out quickly or does it stay wet?

edit - and yes, a topdress/slurry with any kind of decent compost would help i'm sure.

 

[yankeegreen]

how were the roots when you repotted? had they been rootbound in their former pots?

6 days in isnt ideal but should be ok unless its a huge increase in pot size or there is something to slow them down.

are you finding that the soil dries out quickly or does it stay wet?

edit - and yes, a topdress/slurry with any kind of decent compost would help i'm sure.

There was a bit of spinout in the 2gal pots but not bad - not close to rootbound. The roots where white, healthy and getting larger in diameter. 2-5 gal, so not a huge jump. Continued thanks!

 

[VerdantGreen]

right, well i agree with the others that you'll likely have less of these type of problems in a properly built soil with more compost etc.

but as for the problem at hand if the roots are working properly and have grown into the new soil then your nute line/soil is somehow not doing its job. the indica looks better but still on the hungry side to me. have you used this bottle combination before successfully?

 

[dogfishheadie]

yank, it's actually a lot easier to get into than you think. literally my first attempt at any sort of growing and after close to about two-three months on this site and pouring over all the info, i'm feeling pretty confident.

here's the links where I ordered some of the staples that you'll be seeing throughout the other ROLS.

freeze dried aloe =wayyy cheaper to go this route vs liquid form that have preservatives and cause it to go bad.

http://www.ingredientstodiefor.com/item.php?item_id=111


agsil16 (potassium silicate) https://customhydronutrients.com/ze...Path=1_60_68&zenid=3rs8lhfho63d9ceumedu8v1dl5

BioAg Fulpower = http://www.ec-securehost.com/FaustBioAgriculturalServicesinc./Bio_Humic_for_Crops.html

come get acquainted here when done.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=257899