Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[GreenThumb14]

OMG stop it you two, or I'll get the hose...

Rives is right... I'm not denying it. Instead of being 90% sure that you're completely safe, use a case and be 100% sure.

I wouldn't use an un-housed transformer/cap for long term. Only because of the chance it COULD blow up and that could make a big mess or worse, start a fire. I was originally arguing that you could do it without a case and still be safe from shock, cords being yanked, water being spilled on it... The things Rives originally said.

OK, I'm done. eace:

 

[rives]

Those staples are for securing romex inside of a wall, where it is protected from damage. I would defer to the NEC and UL on what is safe, not some internet "expert" that doesn't use the techniques that he is presenting because he doesn't feel that they are safe enough for his personal use. I've got a few thousand posts here, primarily spent in helping people with their electrical issues, and spent my career in the field. Do as you like, but what you are presenting as safe is idiocy.

'Nuff said.

*edit* Just saw your last post. I'm done. Pretty funny smiley, I don't think that I've seen that one before.

 

[GreenThumb14]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=165004&page=2

dtfsux

I ran 9 1000 watt ballasts mounted on plywood for 2 years. When I pulled them down, there was some heat marks, but not much. Nothing that shocked me.

BTW, you will want to mount the wood first, then mount the kits.

I dont see the point in buying a kit, then going through the hassle of trying to find a box for it and installing it. You might as well buy a ready to go ballast.

lol... Wonder if his domicile burned down?

 

[Fonzarelli]

Here is the SPD for the 860w Allstart.

The Philips graph is confirmed accurate. Very little deep red in these guys. They top out at around 650nm which really isn't bad. Should be a really good veg lamp and a decent flower lamp, but I would definitely go with the 315w agro for bloom if you have the option to.

The 860w Allstart is definitely a MUCH better choice than a 3k or 4k MH.

Now, they do make the Ceramatek in 120v, but it gets up to 170 F when run that way and only 75F if run at 220v. So, if a guy goes with 220v, how do you find a 220v timer to plug it in to?

 

[rives]

Titan makes a bunch of 240v timers, but most of them (maybe all) are too light duty for electronic ballasts. Capacitive loads (electronic ballasts) are the toughest load for contacts to handle. Most of the web dealers selling these timers seem to omit the warning that Titan puts on their site about this application. Any timer that doesn't have detailed loading information for the contacts (resistive load, hp, capacitive load, etc) can usually be dismissed as junk.

Better choices would be either build up a double-pole power relay triggered by a digital timer, or use a 240v water heater timer set up so that you can plug it into your 240v outlet and plug your ballast into it.

http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-T104-208-277-Volt-Mechanical-Switch/dp/B000BQOX88

 

[Azeotrope]

Here is what I use.

http://www.intermatic.com/en/Products/TimeSwitches/MechanicalSwitches/DefrostTimer.aspx

 

[GreenThumb14]

Now, they do make the Ceramatek in 120v, but it gets up to 170 F when run that way and only 75F if run at 220v. So, if a guy goes with 220v, how do you find a 220v timer to plug it in to?

My 120v Accendo Digital CMH ballast runs hot. Case temp is around 140F. I used a hose clamp to secure a large extruded aluminum heat sink to the base of the case and then for extra measure I put a PC fan on it. Runs about 5-10f above room temp now.

 

[Illumination]

Seems to me they're just selling the Philips bulb...

I don't think there is going to be much improvement in CMH until there are more digital ballasts readily available for them. Seems there are so many people entrenched in the MH/HPS camp and they're all paralyzed to try something new.

I think its more the high $$ upfront costs....that makes most reluctant...I also do not do bleeding edge for the same reason....once its been out a bit and proven itself the prices normalize and then I go for it

 

[Illumination]

Thank you! I appreciate the heads up!

My thinking, then, was based on a snippet of this study:
UV-B Mediated Responses in Plants
http://www.plantphysiol.org/cgi/content/full/133/4/1420



To be honest, though, the batwing reflectors I was (and still am) using, prevented me from getting the one or two lizard-10 bulbs at the best height. The UV light/s was/were either too close or too far away. Since, I felt, the Retrowhites were providing enough UV, I dropped them.

A blast from the past! I take it you've read the whole thread? Now that's stamina!

Thanks, again!

Yes and gone back and reread as well over the years...lol

this may help you

http://www.solarmeter.com/model62.html
http://www.lightyourreptiles.com/ard3t546in54.html
http://www.reptileuv.com/megaray-metal-halide-uvb.php
150 400 uw/cm2 dependent on strain
sidelighting uvb sup seems more effective than overhead although I do both
Exposure from sprout to harvest best results
more pronounced effects with sativas
creeper long lasting trippier racier high, better/stronger aromas and flavor
Higher brix

Hope it helps

 

[Illumination]

hmm I found this while searching around here...

anyone have input on this?

Well as I have been running 3 cropmaster switchables I would say he is incorrect...not a problem one and the outputs are so very similar that the differences are negligible

 

[Illumination]

link to 330 spectrum?

apologies as I thought I had it saved but must have been on a different computer at the time...I will obtain it and post it here when I do... Am agreeing that it will suffice and do well...I just recall preferring the retro's spectrum

 

[Illumination]

thanks everyone, how hard is it to put together one of the ballast kits? And what do you usually put all the parts in? thanks so much guys!

Army surplus ammo box

 

[Illumination]

nah bro check it here is the link

400w RETRO WHITE

http://www.advancedtechlighting.com/cdmed18.htm

View Image




330w Allstart

View Image

http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmallstart.htm

Look at it ...it is the same graph...400 retro white

 

[Illumination]

330w Allstart CDM SPD at bottom of the page...

http://download.p4c.philips.com/l4b/9/928601165903_na/928601165903_na_pss_aen.pdf

Thank you..now do you not agree that the 400 retro is the "better" spectrum of the 2?

 

[soursmoker]

Well as I have been running 3 cropmaster switchables I would say he is incorrect...not a problem one and the outputs are so very similar that the differences are negligible

interesting, are these the 1000w or 400w? Just confused because when I searched "cropmaster switchable ballasts" mostly 1000w came up...
so this leads me to believe you are running the 830w or 860w bulbs on these ballasts?

please correct me if i am wrong

Army surplus ammo box

damn I just saw one of those at an antique store, shoulda picked it up! It was kinda expensive tho. how much are they at an army&navy store?

Look at it ...it is the same graph...400 retro white

yes you are deff right, same graph lol

Thank you..now do you not agree that the 400 retro is the "better" spectrum of the 2?

I don't know much about spectrums, but I'd say the 400w retro whites do have a better overall spectrum, that pic is kinda decieving for the 330w tho. it's very small on my screen. does anyone have an enlarged version?

 

[Fonzarelli]

Thank you..now do you not agree that the 400 retro is the "better" spectrum of the 2?

I see quite a bit more blue in the 400 retro compared to the 860w Allstart.

Therefore, the Allstart has more yellow/red overall. The SPD graphs are relative intensity which means in the Allstart there is relatively quite a bit more yellow-red wavelengths making it a better flowering lamp.

Just because the 400w retro shows that it has red up to 700nm and beyond does not make it a better choice for the spectrum.

Overall, there is a higher quantity of the 630-650nm region that is good for flowering in the Allstart even though the spectrum doesn't go much further than 655nm, it's the overall spectral balance that leans on the red side that makes it the better choice.

The 330w Allstart lamps probably have the same SPD as the 860w.

This works in theory, but a person would have to do a side by side test to confirm although with the higher amount of blue in the old Retro white I would definitely say that it is the poorer choice.

I will be flowering with the 860w Allstart in the near future and I can compare the way the plants flower as I have the same strain also flowering under the 400w Retro white at the moment.

Yes, I know the fact that the lamp is twice the power it's going to grow bigger buds, but it's the WAY the bud grows that I will make the determination of which spectrum is better for flowering.

When I compare the plant growing right now under the 400w retro white to the same plant growing under the 1000w HPS, the bud under the retro white is much leafier/airier/not as dense as the HPS bud. This is photomorphology at it's best. The extra heavy blue light in the retro white is making the buds grow leafier/airier and also larger, but not nearly as dense as the red heavy lamp.

 

[MEnSouRdeeZ]

i personally have grown very very dense bud under 70% cmh. i use hps/cmh combo for the "middle half" of flowering, i.e. for 8 week flwr strain, weeks 3-6.
one indica strain is so dense under this light regimen, that when harvesting, i must carefully snip apart colas into smaller pieces, and keep humidity low, or the white powdery mildew/mold sets in within hours. HOURS.

I do agree that if you flower under CMH only, they are leafier... I dont guess anyone questions that... but I would much rather smoke that bud.... now, artfully bring in the HPS to hit "all those damn leafs!!" created by CMH, and you have the same quantity of bud now higher quality. CMH alone can make it more airy, so take advantage of the higher surface area and hit it with UVB. Hell in all honesty I have a few old skool super skunks that I started out with, and eventually I almost trashed. Around that time I got the CMH.. the next batch of the same SS took on a bluish hue I had never seen before. Yes they were slightly more leafy but the smoke was totally....totally...different. more complex. The smoke is out of this world. now one of my favorites.

hmm i wonder how some people even think that CMH is a crap lamp... like the guy who called it leafus maximus and said MH and HPS own CMH... lol... he cant really think that "metal halide" owns "ceramic metal halide"?? thats like saying an Intel pentium processor owns an Intel CORE i5... Why do hydro shops still push the over priced mh and HPS bulbs in fancy wooden cases and velvety sleeves. OH YEAH because you can buy it at an electrical supply house or any philips distributor for around.. $35/piece.... ok rant over...

 

[smile]

Looks like DNA Lighting Solutions has a little more info up on their website..

 

[senor coconut]

Hi,
I'm running a small 1.5 x 1.5 x 2.7 ft high cabinet with a vertical 150W HPS in the middle inside a cooltube and 4 small plants placed on the corners which are directly started 12/12 from seeds or clones, SOG style
I'm enough satisfied with it and with the cooltube I can manage the heat quite well, but I was thinking to change from HPS to CMH, in particular to the new 315W Elite Agro dimmed to 50/70% as far as I can manage heat.... costs apart do you think that would be a good choice?
I like the CMH spectrum, I read that they rocks for vegging and used in conjuction with HPS also in flowering but I want to use the Elite Agro alone, beside more quality buds (which is the main reason I would try the switch ) should I expect lesser yields versus HPS or quantity will be be about the same if not better?
A last question, how CMH works inside cooltubes? I read that are cooler than HPS but this is right when they are open, should I expect troubles placing them in a cooltube?
Thanks in advance

 

[GreenThumb14]

Hi,
I'm running a small 1.5 x 1.5 x 2.7 ft high cabinet with a vertical 150W HPS in the middle inside a cooltube and 4 small plants placed on the corners which are directly started 12/12 from seeds or clones, SOG style
I'm enough satisfied with it and with the cooltube I can manage the heat quite well, but I was thinking to change from HPS to CMH, in particular to the new 315W Elite Agro dimmed to 50/70% as far as I can manage heat.... costs apart do you think that would be a good choice?
I like the CMH spectrum, I read that they rocks for vegging and used in conjuction with HPS also in flowering but I want to use the Elite Agro alone, beside more quality buds (which is the main reason I would try the switch ) should I expect lesser yields versus HPS or quantity will be be about the same if not better?
A last question, how CMH works inside cooltubes? I read that are cooler than HPS but this is right when they are open, should I expect troubles placing them in a cooltube?
Thanks in advance

I've only ever used CMH, so I cannot comment on heat from the bulbs. I'll say that I'm running near 900w of CMH in a roughly 10x10' bedroom and the air temps in the room with no special cooling (only the air blowing through ventilation system throughout the apartment) stays in the mid to upper 70s. The bulbs are in air cooled reflectors with 2 6" duct booster fans.

As for the more important part - yield. I flowered 2 Autoflowering AK47s under them and harvested really good yields for giving zero special attention and miracle grow soil. I was really worried about yields with flowering under CMH but I can honestly say that it is a load of shit and a myth. The experienced CMH growers here like Azeotrope, Rives, and tenthirty will probably tell you the same thing.

I have a Northern Lights Blue growing under a 330w Allstart CMH bulb that is about 8" tall and on it's 7th node with crazy internode branching. If I can take care of this gdamn root rot issue I KNOW that it will be a flower monster.

As I say to everyone, you won't regret using CMH... Specially if you use the 315w Agro. Even if you do lose a little bit of yield I would imagine it being on the scale of grams, not ounces but the bud will be so much tastier and higher quality. It's as close as you can get to growing outdoors.

You won't have any issues with CMH in a cool tube, it's just like any other bulb in that regard. However, I would advise against cool tubes because of the curvature of the glass. I've read that it diminishes output from the bulb. If this is scientifically true and how deleterious the effects are I do not know, but it's something to research if you are bored and really care lol.