Everybody a breeder ?

[Tom Hill]

What quality of the product speaks loudly to Xmobotx, is the parents. If the breeder hasn't a fucking clue how or why he got to where he did it speaks nothing about him. This is something that is grossly misunderstood. Some guy might see some guy yapping on about art with a successful hybrid, all I see is a high SCA. It's all any of you should see as well.

 

[FOE20]

ya Im bowin to the facts that i truly dont understand but I appreciate the efforts none the less....I just was hoping for a new or 2nd door...
and what I posted about DChunk and that was not aimed to show Tom or that work in a bad light...it was showing how ppl steal work...and claim whatever they want...I just wanted to see how it was interpreted...
I know im not gana agree and love every thing even great said breeders make...but thats the thing for me..its not the breeders...its how they rep the Plant that matters at all..other wise wtf are they doin really?....Im not chasin a breeder Im chasing a line or a variety...Work talks best...
Perfect example...WilliamsWonder...easy enough to produce but I'll tell ya....if you don't know it your just going to offer another big thick afghan..heh...
FPE20

 

[Tom Hill]

"Im not chasin a breeder Im chasing a line or a variety"....Finally some common ground Foe, same page, yes sir..

 

[offthehook]

I donno about anyone else, but I like it the most when it makes me chill & happy so I can sit and watch our writing here all day long while trying to learn or offer some thoughts along the way.

If it gets me to become frustrated by others, or making me respond blatantly, well , I probably must have been smoking the wrong stuff I guess?

 

[TheArchitect]

The spelling is correct either way. Calibre is the English spelling, caliber US spelling. Lots of differences. Most spell checks on the internet use American spelling which can be pretty frustrating if you live in another part of the world that uses Engish spelling.

Just giving mobot a hard time lol

 

[Tom Hill]

Now, take this absolute bullshit brought forth by some earlier that these techniques have not been proven. Take another look and look closely... I don't care one iota that this guy breeding with some OG doesn't have a clue what he's talking about,,, I can see from the results that the plant is homozygous and of high breeding worth, so I press go. And so should you my friends. Gain that understanding then all the blah blah spewed forth by "breeders" becomes just that, blah blah.

 

[Tom Hill]

otherwise, you can go on praising your hero's (you're really praising the parents though) for their magic "art" which is nothing more than a way to describe that they do not know what the fuck they're doing...

 

[FOE20]

hey Weird actually I take my enviro seriously as I saw you were implying its not a variable or considered strongly which it very much is....I mean its IMO 50% of the control in expression bro...I have no choice...but if All varieties Express correctly under the right formulas in this enviro...Hell ya...its on point...

ya Tom....I'll get it some day but it does seem to help if you have certain basics understood...I feel like my prob is i learned a lil on both ends and am missing to much in the center...the thread is so much info and views tho its still worth it....but man its a big ass never ending book of possibilities...eeessh...

man offthehook..think what i was smokin myself made me think i understood things..but actually i was just really quite high...lol...but im glad these guys had their chance to say their peace no matter view.....made for some very interesting reading..heheh
keep rollin
FOE20

 

[Weird]

Weird what's your grudge man this thread went from a good discussion to a gongshow in a minute.

its not a grudge match

Tom expressed his views why he makes selection pool of prime importance

I argue that indoors the suppression of genotype expression reduces the pool size necessary to find the best 5% because you wont see the variation indoors

if you reduce the amount of phenotypes you reduce the ratio and thus the pool necessary to find the same percentage of quality plants

the indoor environment scales the ratio as well which takes pressure of the size of the pool necessary to find the required results

I asked in the very beginning if we could ACTUALIZE this difference because it would set one bar for those who grow indoors looking to homogenize med strains versus those who grow outdoors trying to preserve land race diversity

the variables involved dictate the application of the science

if i take a 1000 of pedigree seeds and grow them indoors will i see the same 40 phenotypes expressed?

will they ever be expressed if i continue to breed it out indoors?

do I need the same ratio of phenotype if it is not going to be expressed and isn't going to be generations down the road because its been breed for the intention of being bred in a homogenous environment?

if not it changes the basis of the selection pool and this is VERY IMPORTANT in determining breeder quality

is it not?

because if it isn't and this isn't an important variable please tell me why?

anyone?

please?

 

[offthehook]

Sure did Foe

@ Wierd. I would say that it would depend on if you grow them outdoors individually or in a competitive type of shared medium.

But what do I know Weird. You seem to be one hell of a smart cookie to me. I definatly like your way of arguing even though I'm not getting you always, but that's not necessarily your fault, eheh.

 

[new3]

dude stop giving people a chance to pick on you, i see so many holes in what you just tryed to explain, but ill leave it at that, dont want to be the straw that broke the camels back.

 

[Weird]

dude stop giving people a chance to pick on you, i see so many holes in what you just tryed to explain, but ill leave it at that, dont want to be the straw that broke the camels back.

pick me apart by showing how that question has no value or meaning or get off my dick

 

[Tom Hill]

Do you have a question Weird? Place it in a paragraph, if not a sentence, or get off my dick.

 

[Tom Hill]

nobodies passing out cookies for extra babble.

 

[Weird]

Do you have a question Weird? Place it in a paragraph, if not a sentence, or get off my dick.

I know Tom your not sharing your answer and the science to prove it because of the way I structure my sentences

sorry Tom but not only am I severely learning disabled but I was diagnosed with mild autism as a child

maybe you'll make fun of me for that too

 

[GMT]

Can't help noticing we have very few seedbay retailers in this thread.

 

[al-k-mist]

No disrespect to anyone, and i am but a lowly amateur gardener, but I do tend to agree with the theory of what wierd said
if you take 1000 beans and grow them indoors, certain environmental characteristics will not be present, so, obviously, certain phenotypes will not 'express themselves'. so those wont be able to be bred into .... i dont know, the next generations, wouldnt be able to be considered as genetic...choice??
sorry for not being able to express what i mean but i hope you get the drift
peace

 

[Tom Hill]

I am also Autistic Weird, as are most in my family, including my 7yo non-verbal son - perhaps it has something to do with why I refuse to mix words with these folks here, besides the point. Either fucking learn to condense that shit into something that is understood by someone not wasting away on acid or forego your fucking right to a response.

 

[GMT]

Weird, I believe the answer you are looking for is this: Though others may argue the answer is wrong, at least it addresses the question.
The environment the selection takes place in will alter the expression of the genes slightly, but it will not alter the genes themselves. Therefore the ratio stays the same, but selection can only be made for the environment the selection takes place in. The point being made by Tom (if I may Tom) is that the selection process should not depend on the traits you see expressed, but by the ratio of desirable traits expressing in the offspring. Which means high numbers are necessary due to the logistics of that process. Indoor or outdoor, the logistics remain.

 

[xmobotx]

weird i think the problem w/ suppressing genotype expression is essentially the inverse of what you would want to do ~it may make it easier to make selections but the potential for heterozygous offspring is exaggerated {since suppressed expressions you might NOT want are potentially still there} this is assuming that genotype expression is actually suppressed {an arguable point}

also there are 2 divergent approaches and it sounds like where you are considering making selections to produce an outstanding individual the OP seems to address a breeder who strives for homozygous plants {breeds true}

another problem i see is in your previous post where you say "at least 40 plants for 40 phenotypes" this is like assuming that if you spin the roulette ball 38 times it will hit both the 0 and 00 as well as 1-36 each one time